Matthew 11:10 - Exodus 23:20

[achduke]

Hi Achduke,

Perhaps rather this way:

Isaiah 11:2
2. And the Spirit of YHWH shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom [1] and understanding [2], the Spirit of counsel [3] and might [4], the Spirit of knowledge [5] and of the reverential-fear [6] of YHWH.

John 1:17
17. Because the Torah through Moshe was given; the grace and the truth through Messiah Yeshua came to be.

Hebrews 10:29
29. Of how much sorer punishment, suppose you, shall he be thought worthy who has trodden under foot the Son of Elohim, and has counted the blood of the Covenant wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and has done despite unto the Spirit of grace [7]?

You think?

:sheep:

Maybe. I just know Christ had the fulness of the holy spirit IN him.

 

[daqq]

Good ol' John the Baptist. A descendant of Aaron the High Priest! The greatest man born from women Jesus said, and let's not forget that he made Jesus way straight!

Luke 1:5
In the time of Herod king of Judea there was a priest named Zechariah, who belonged to the priestly division of Abijah; his wife Elizabeth was also a descendant of Aaron

:thumb:

Yep, and followin' Jesus through them, ummmmm, folks, can get hairy.:chuckle:

Specially when they are gettin' cut off.

:thumb:

Hello to the both of you also and thank you for your contributions. I really have to drag myself away from here now, (and this thread was really going good too thanks to everyone involved). May the Father bless your Bread of Life and Living Water!

:sheep:

 

[daqq]

Originally Posted by daqq
23. For My Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Chittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, and the Gergashites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.

Yep, and followin' Jesus through them, ummmmm, folks, can get hairy.:chuckle:

Specially when they are gettin' cut off.

Do you mean like Esau was sa`iyr-kid-goat-shaggy-hairy, (Genesis 27:11)? :crackup:

Matthew 8:28 KJV
28. And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, [GSN#1086 Gergasenos-Girgashite] there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.

Original Strong's Ref. #1086
Romanized Gergesenos
Pronounced gher-ghes-ay-nos'
of Hebrew origin [HSN1622]; a Gergesene (i.e. Girgashite) or one of the aborigines of Palestine:
KJV--Gergesene.

Heard it said that some of that genos of hairy can be legion . . . :chuckle:

:sheep:

 

[daqq]

Good ol' John the Baptist. A descendant of Aaron the High Priest! The greatest man born from women Jesus said,

So then Yeshua cannot be born of a woman or Yochanan would be greater:

Matthew 11:11
11. Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there has not arisen a greater than Yochanan the Immerser: yet he that is but little in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he.

And not only that but anyone born from above is not born of woman:

John 1:12-13
12. But as many as received him, to them he gave authority to become tekna-offspring of Elohim, to them faithfully trusting into his name:
13. those not from blood, neither from the will of the flesh, nor from the will of man, but contrariwise from Elohim having been begotten.

So the holy Elohim seed is supernal and Spirit . . .
And thus all the upright genealogies are "mano-y-mano" . . . :Nineveh:

:sheep:

 

[Interplanner]

Any human born from above is a human born of woman, too, before being born from above.

What is "mano-y-mano..."?

 

[achduke]

What is "mano-y-mano..."?

Hand to hand.

 

[daqq]

Any human born from above is a human born of woman, too, before being born from above.

What is "mano-y-mano..."?

Spanish "mano-y-mano" is "one-on-one" or "man-to-man" as in the upright genealogies:

Matthew 1:2 KJV
2. Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren;

But as for being "born of a woman" one must differentiate, (or perhaps "rightly divide") between the flesh and the Spirit. My mother is Yerushalaim of above according to the writings, (Galatians 4:26). Do you not remember what I said to you just yesterday concerning this very topic?

How about you Interplanner? Is Jerusalem of Above your mother covenant as Paul says? Is Jerusalem of Above Israel or Sarah? Or do you think Jerusalem of Above represents something else in this allegory? Paul clearly states that it is an allegory and clearly states that it is an allegory of TWO COVENANTS. Is Sarah-Jerusalem of Above your "mother covenant" too or do you ignore Paul on this one as most do? :chuckle:

*SNIP*

How then will you understand what it means to bear fruit in the kingdom of God accordingly as it is written? The first [covenant] is only transformed at the time appointed of the Father and that is to each in his or her own appointed times, (and none shall be alone in his appointed times). For when it pleased God, who separated me from the womb of my mother, and called me by his grace to reveal his Son in me, (for Messiah is formed in a man by the sowing of the seed of the Word into his heart) I needed no more from that time to confer with flesh and blood: from a babe have I known the holy Scriptures, but of course I do not speak of physical birth any more than Paul does. :crackup:

:sheep:

 

[Interplanner]

I thought you expressed yourself clearly, but this is mumbling.

The language in both Rom 9 and Gal 4 about Isaac does not have to mean there was sexual intercourse that procreated him. Like Jesus and John.

The Gal 4 analogy is intended simply to show that those in Judaism are not free like those in the Christian faith. Those in Judaism can't go out and do the mission to the nations because they are stuck in the Law (and will get others stuck in it and in barricades against the nations) instead of the outgoing Gospel.

 

[daqq]

I thought you expressed yourself clearly, but this is mumbling.

The language in both Rom 9 and Gal 4 about Isaac does not have to mean there was sexual intercourse that procreated him. Like Jesus and John.

The Gal 4 analogy is intended simply to show that those in Judaism are not free like those in the Christian faith. Those in Judaism can't go out and do the mission to the nations because they are stuck in the Law (and will get others stuck in it and in barricades against the nations) instead of the outgoing Gospel.

You speak only from and of yourself and are not only mumbling but failing to apply to yourself what Paul teaches. There is Torah of Elohim, (Horeb the Mountain of Elohim) and Torah of Sinai below. Neither one is "done away" but rather simply have two different applications. You do not believe much of what Pauly truly says do you? Or do you simply not understand? That is okay but even if so that does not mean it is me who is the mumbler just because you do not understand what is written. I believe both Yeshua and Paul probably more then most so-called mainstream Christians such as yourself. Therefore I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me, (in the flesh). For I delight in the Torah of Elohim according to the inward man: but I see another law in my members warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members, (the body of flesh). O wretched man that I am: who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank Elohim through (the Testimony of) Messiah Yeshua our Master. So then with the mind I myself serve the Torah of Elohim, [Horeb] but with the flesh the law of sin, [Sinai] (Romans 7:21-25). Without the Torah you have nothing to keep your own body-house-temple under submission and your members therefore eat, drink, and rise up to play, (not good). :crackup:

:sheep:

 

[Interplanner]

Do you think you are saying something that is making the discussion progress?

check the title of this thread again. Do you have something to say about the title?

 

[daqq]

Do you think you are saying something that is making the discussion progress?

check the title of this thread again. Do you have something to say about the title?

Please go get the OP of this thread and ask him if my posts have been acceptable. He said on page one that he was going to "let it ride" which also seems to mean "go with the flow". You then said some things on the previous page which I answered to accordingly. And yet now this is your response? Please go blow your hot air somewhere else, unless you have something constructive to add, and please start using Scripture to back up your assertions. As for adding something to the OP and thread title I already totally agree with it and am still waiting for someone else who does not agree to refute the OP and show him the error of his ways. Perhaps the OP already knew that the opening post cannot be refuted and that is why he decided to "let it ride" in this thread and go with the flow? I dunno, ya think I may putting words in his mouth?

:sheep:

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Do you mean like Esau was sa`iyr-kid-goat-shaggy-hairy, (Genesis 27:11)? :crackup:

Matthew 8:28 KJV
28. And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, [GSN#1086 Gergasenos-Girgashite] there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.

Original Strong's Ref. #1086
Romanized Gergesenos
Pronounced gher-ghes-ay-nos'
of Hebrew origin [HSN1622]; a Gergesene (i.e. Girgashite) or one of the aborigines of Palestine:
KJV--Gergesene.

Heard it said that some of that genos of hairy can be legion . . . :chuckle:

:sheep:

YEP.

There was a time that I figgered this couldn't happen to me.


Luke 11:26 KJV


26 Then goeth he , and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in , and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.


It's all part of the program.


Proverbs 24:16 KJV


16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again : but the wicked shall fall into mischief.


How do we rise again?




John 5:21 KJV


21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will .




Few have actually seen the hardness of Jesus or tasted his sweetness.

Many are still in the drawing stage not giving credit to our Father.

 

[daqq]

YEP.

There was a time that I figgered this couldn't happen to me.


Luke 11:26 KJV


26 Then goeth he , and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in , and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.


It's all part of the program.


Proverbs 24:16 KJV


16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again : but the wicked shall fall into mischief.


How do we rise again?




John 5:21 KJV


21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will .




Few have actually seen the hardness of Jesus or tasted his sweetness.

Many are still in the drawing stage not giving credit to our Father.

Wow, and the Son is given the right to divide between the sons of light and the sons of darkness as the Kohen Gadol after the order of Melki-Tzedek has the two stones in the pouch of his Ephod Breastplate: a white light stone with a new name having been written therein, or a black light stone of the blackness of the darkness of strong delusion forever. If therefore the light that is inside the man be darkness: how great is that darkness!

:sheep:

 

[daqq]

26 Then goeth he , and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in , and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.


It's all part of the program.


Proverbs 24:16 KJV


16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again : but the wicked shall fall into mischief.

Yep, it is indeed part of the program, well said. Sorta like an immersion process; seven dips, dunks, or plunges at the Jordan River, like Naaman the Syrian with leprosy that was healed. In reality the plunges of the immersion do not all have to occur at one time or in a single day, even though all seven are considered as the seven plunges of the one immersion, but can come to pass over great lengths of time, (though there is a final hour where everything is abridged, recapped, rediscovered, even brought to remembrance). Mariam Magdalene likewise had seven demons or devils cast out of her. Funny we never hear much about this in the Gospel preaching of the modern shepherd pulpits. By the Luke passage you have quoted, (and the Matthew companion passage) we see that indeed every man is likened to a house:

Luke 11:24-26 KJV
24. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
25. And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
26. Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

This is scapegoat typology. The sa`iyr-goat twin which is chosen by lot to/for Azazel is sent away into the desert (dry-arid places) with all the sins of the people upon his mortally wounded head. His head is mortally wounded because the High Priest puts his hands upon the head of the goat and confesses all the sins of the people over the goat before the goat is sent away into the wilderness. In tradition the goat was destroyed because of the catastrophic implications if the goat were to wonder back into the camp with all the sins of the people upon its head. However we do not actually read anywhere that the "scapegoat" was to be destroyed. This is the very reason why also; for in supernal and spiritual terms, the twin goat ALWAYS returns to the man and his house with all his sins upon his mortally wounded head, (two horns like a lamb but speaks like a dragon). Moses also says so in Torah when he writes: "Be sure that your sin will find you out", (Numbers 32:23).

So then, if the first unclean spirit of the world and prince of the power of the air goes out, and then makes a compact, associating with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and then he returns to the house of the man with all the other seven wicked fellows: would it not make the first unclean spirit then "the eighth and of the seven"? (Revelation 17:11). The Testimony of Yeshua is the Spirit of the Prophecy.

:sheep:

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Yep, it is indeed part of the program, well said. Sorta like an immersion process; seven dips, dunks, or plunges at the Jordan River, like Naaman the Syrian with leprosy that was healed. In reality the plunges of the immersion do not all have to occur at one time or in a single day, even though all seven are considered as the seven plunges of the one immersion, but can come to pass over great lengths of time, (though there is a final hour where everything is abridged, recapped, rediscovered, even brought to remembrance). Mariam Magdalene likewise had seven demons or devils cast out of her. Funny we never hear much about this in the Gospel preaching of the modern shepherd pulpits. By the Luke passage you have quoted, (and the Matthew companion passage) we see that indeed every man is likened to a house:

Luke 11:24-26 KJV
24. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
25. And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
26. Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

This is scapegoat typology. The sa`iyr-goat twin which is chosen by lot to/for Azazel is sent away into the desert (dry-arid places) with all the sins of the people upon his mortally wounded head. His head is mortally wounded because the High Priest puts his hands upon the head of the goat and confesses all the sins of the people over the goat before the goat is sent away into the wilderness. In tradition the goat was destroyed because of the catastrophic implications if the goat were to wonder back into the camp with all the sins of the people upon its head. However we do not actually read anywhere that the "scapegoat" was to be destroyed. This is the very reason why also; for in supernal and spiritual terms, the twin goat ALWAYS returns to the man and his house with all his sins upon his mortally wounded head, (two horns like a lamb but speaks like a dragon). Moses also says so in Torah when he writes: "Be sure that your sin will find you out", (Numbers 32:23).

So then, if the first unclean spirit of the world and prince of the power of the air goes out, and then makes a compact, associating with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and then he returns to the house of the man with all the other seven wicked fellows: would it not make the first unclean spirit then "the eighth and of the seven"?

:sheep:

Yes, the spirit of anti-christ is figured just as Christ is the eighth and of the seven spirits of God.

Add to our faith:

virtue,knowledge,temperance,patience,godliness,brotherly kindness and charity.


The only way I know how to add anything to myself is to ask for it.


Luke 11:13 KJV


13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?



There is a reason Paul talks of rebirth in those until Christ was formed in them.

He also was speaking as he was being taught when he said he some times thought he and the other Apostles were set up for a spectacle.

(Revelation 17:11). The Testimony of Yeshua is the Spirit of the Prophecy.

Indeed.

 

[daqq]

There is a reason Paul talks of rebirth in those until Christ was formed in them.

And how is it that Messiah is formed in a person? The Torah is our paidagogos crossing guard or "schoolmaster", to bring us to Messiah, as Paul says. And if Yochanan the Immerser is the Malak of Exodus 23:20-23 then he is the Messenger who leads us in the way of righteousness, through the "desert", and into the Land. The immersion of Yochanan is therefore an immersion into Torah and Prophets, (the washing of water into the word). Therefore one must first have the immersion of Yochanan, (which even Cornelius and his "household" knew) which includes immersion into Torah and Prophets and thereby repentance toward the sending away of sins, (the immersion of Yochanan). And with those things in tow one must then devote at least a full year of intense immersion into the Testimony of Yeshua found in the Gospel accounts, as did the Antiochians under Paul and Barnabas, (Acts 11:26) and this is a true Christianos for only then will the Christos begin to be formed in a person:

Matthew 3:11 ASV
11. I indeed baptize you in water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit and in fire:

John 3:5 ASV
5. Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born of water [the immersion of Yochanan] and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God!

Matthew 21:32 ASV
31. Which of the two did the will of his father? They say, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, that the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
32. For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not; but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye saw it, did not even repent yourselves afterward, that ye might believe him.

I have not found any translation renderings of the following passage which I can fully agree with but the Young's Literal Bible Translation is the closest:

Acts 1:5 YLT
5. because John, indeed, baptized with water, and ye shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit - after not many days.'

Acts 1:5 Transliterated Unaccented
5. hoti Ioannes men ebaptisen hudati, humeis de en Pneumati baptisthesesthe Hagio ou meta pollas tautas hemeras."

"Because indeed Yochanan did immerse [you] in water, you moreover in Spirit shall be immersed Holy not many days hence."

This cryptic statement implies that the immersion of Yochanan was necessary first, which is the water immersion INTO THE WORD, and an immersion of repentance toward the sending away of sins. When we check the record concerning the first critical immersion of a Gentile such as Cornelius we see the same prerequisite having been met:

Acts 10:37
37. That word, I say, you know, which was published throughout all Yhudah, and began from the Galilees with the immersion which Yochanan preached:

This is stated to Cornelius and his household, in his house, and confirmed again with a reference back to Acts 1:5 when Peter rehearses what had happened in the next chapter:

Acts 11:15-16
15. And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as on us at the beginning.
16. Then remembered I the word of the Master, how that he said, Yochanan indeed immersed [you] in water; you moreover shall be immersed in Spirit Holy.

 

[keypurr]

Matthew 11:10 - Exodus 23:20

Hi Keypurr,

The truth is in the statement that the Torah prophesied until John but mainstream Christianity will probably never admit that because to most the Law is "done away with" or abolished. How then can one still say the same if the Torah was not even fully implemented and enforce until Golgotha? It truly is mercy and grace because it actually lets those of old time off the hook for not understanding Torah before Messiah had come. Nobody could have understood it before that time. It is all expounded in the Testimony of Yeshua. If Messiah had not come we would still not understand it to this day, (for the Torah is spiritual). As for an Arabic translation do you mean Aramaic? If so, be careful friend, Matthew is the only account we know that was originally written in Hebrew-Aramaic. However, no, I have not read an Aramaic translation, (neither do I read Aramaic) but have perused some portions of translations from Aramaic which I did not care for any more than the Textus Receptus, (which is the Greek that the KJV and YLT are rendered from). There are also ongoing projects in Aramaic Bibles so I am not really sure what you mean.

ARAMAIC ENGLISH NEW TESTAMENT

Very interesting translation, I have only had it for three days so I really should not judge it. But the notes that came with it are great. They use the Khabouris Codex from the Eastern Peshitta family.

I thought this would be a great resource for my library. It is the only non Greek translation that I have.

Check it out at

www.aent.org

Let me know what you think as I respect your views.

 

[daqq]

ARAMAIC ENGLISH NEW TESTAMENT

Very interesting translation, I have only had it for three days so I really should not judge it. But the notes that came with it are great. They use the Khabouris Codex from the Eastern Peshitta family.

I thought this would be a great resource for my library. It is the only non Greek translation that I have.

Check it out at

www.aent.org

Let me know what you think ad I respect your views.

Hi Keypurr, thanks for the link, Aramaic was what I thought you probably meant but wanted to make sure because Aramaic is indeed the parent language for modern Arabic. One problem I see right away is this statement from the top of the page in the link you have provided:

"Popular English New Testaments come from Greek translations originally converted from Hebrew and Aramaic texts."

Not that I want to argue the point here, (with anyone else who might decide to jump in) but the statement quoted above cannot be proven at this time, (and it does not appear that this will change anytime soon unless some autograph or "original manuscripts" are someday found). Other than that I think that the cultural, historical, and various other background notes that you will find should be highly enlightening and well worth the purchase. Treat it just as you do all of your other translations, (with a grain of salt).

 

[keypurr]

Hi Keypurr, thanks for the link, Aramaic was what I thought you probably meant but wanted to make sure because Aramaic is indeed the parent language for modern Arabic. One problem I see right away is this statement from the top of the page in the link you have provided:

"Popular English New Testaments come from Greek translations originally converted from Hebrew and Aramaic texts."

Not that I want to argue the point here, (with anyone else who might decide to jump in) but the statement quoted above cannot be proven at this time, (and it does not appear that this will change anytime soon unless some autograph or "original manuscripts" are someday found). Other than that I think that the cultural, historical, and various other background notes that you will find should be highly enlightening and well worth the purchase. Treat it just as you do all of your other translations, (with a grain of salt).

Thank you for the Comeback.

I treat all my translations with an open mind, hopefully I can learn much from this one. It had a lot of notes on subjects that I have not studied on. So it looks good.

 

[daqq]

Thank you for the Comeback.

I treat all my translations with an open mind, hopefully I can learn much from this one. It had a lot of notes on subjects that I have not studied on. So it looks good.

:thumb:

And one other thing I might add about pure Hebrew, (not Aramaic) is that in my opinion it is both "the food of Angels" and "the tongue of Angels", (of which Paul writes) because the Torah was given through the instrumentality of the Elohim-Angels, (Acts 7:53). Even in the first century it did not technically have vowels or the vowel pointing which it has today, (which was added much later by the Masoretes). This fact alone is all the more reason for the Apostolic writers to bring the Gospel of Yeshua to the nations in Greek because of the already extant Greek Septuagint. But as I said, not that what you have acquired is bad in any way, and it is probably better than most; but as I said also just be careful, (and prayerful) because there is no perfect translation. They say the Greek came from Aramaic Peshitta(s) but in my own opinion they cannot prove what they assert. That is just my opinion.