Martyrs’ travail pain through the straight gate to humble heaven.

[stephengoswami]

Martyrs’ travail pain through the straight gate to humble heaven.
When infants are expelled from womb by terrible pain through a constricted passage often deaths occur. After expulsion that pain compels the infant to open its hitherto useless lungs. From now on he will live by the air of the wide open world. If the travail doesn’t do it further pain is administered to activate its lungs.
A new birth in spiritual infinite heaven is similar. A small thing’s passage is necessarily small for its safety. Our world is very small compared to the spiritual world as earth is compared to sun. Those who seek new heavenly birth must go through it, no less. The expelling force of the womb, which can no longer tolerate it, must be enough to get rid of it as soon as possible. It can’t be instantaneous though, as there are attachments to be torn apart and weakness of the passage and baby.
From Christ to present day martyrs in communist, Muslim lands or anywhere we see the spectacle of spiritual new birth process again and again. Unless one goes through it there is no salvation in spite of their proud loud proclamation of faith.
I believe that those dying natural death is not eligible for salvation. The fact, that world didn’t expel them forcibly, proves their unheavenliness. As, air can’t be tolerated by body except in lung; so, self-sacrificing heaven can’t be tolerated by selfish world.
Of course there are plenty fake martyrs, who die not in love but in hate, greed, pride etc. They can’t go to love-heaven. It can’t the other than love as only love can abidingly hold together a vast heaven.

But, to be worthy to die Christ-like, one must cultivate Christ-like qualities incessantly. This Christ exhorted in ten virgins and other places. Without cultivation these qualities will not survive as weeds of the world is sure to overwhelm them. Then during test one will fail and make compromises with the world. He can put up a façade of piety to delude the naïve world though. If salvation could be got without martyrdom then Christ wouldn’t have died on the cross.

Of course we can’t make ourselves martyrs. Only when Christ evaluates one worthy to go through martyrdom-travail he lets him. Then world no longer can tolerate him for his obvious heaven-like qualities and he can take that expulsion with love and faith. As he is connected properly with Christ, he is upheld through the travail. Only those, who obey Christ in love-works sincerely, increase in love to be connected to him, not proud faith proclaimers.

Easy ‘Christians’ will vehemently oppose this but I must proclaim what spirit dictates me.

 

[Robert Pate]

Martyrs’ travail pain through the straight gate to humble heaven.
When infants are expelled from womb by terrible pain through a constricted passage often deaths occur. After expulsion that pain compels the infant to open its hitherto useless lungs. From now on he will live by the air of the wide open world. If the travail doesn’t do it further pain is administered to activate its lungs.
A new birth in spiritual infinite heaven is similar. A small thing’s passage is necessarily small for its safety. Our world is very small compared to the spiritual world as earth is compared to sun. Those who seek new heavenly birth must go through it, no less. The expelling force of the womb, which can no longer tolerate it, must be enough to get rid of it as soon as possible. It can’t be instantaneous though, as there are attachments to be torn apart and weakness of the passage and baby.
From Christ to present day martyrs in communist, Muslim lands or anywhere we see the spectacle of spiritual new birth process again and again. Unless one goes through it there is no salvation in spite of their proud loud proclamation of faith.
I believe that those dying natural death is not eligible for salvation. The fact, that world didn’t expel them forcibly, proves their unheavenliness. As, air can’t be tolerated by body except in lung; so, self-sacrificing heaven can’t be tolerated by selfish world.
Of course there are plenty fake martyrs, who die not in love but in hate, greed, pride etc. They can’t go to love-heaven. It can’t the other than love as only love can abidingly hold together a vast heaven.

But, to be worthy to die Christ-like, one must cultivate Christ-like qualities incessantly. This Christ exhorted in ten virgins and other places. Without cultivation these qualities will not survive as weeds of the world is sure to overwhelm them. Then during test one will fail and make compromises with the world. He can put up a façade of piety to delude the naïve world though. If salvation could be got without martyrdom then Christ wouldn’t have died on the cross.

Of course we can’t make ourselves martyrs. Only when Christ evaluates one worthy to go through martyrdom-travail he lets him. Then world no longer can tolerate him for his obvious heaven-like qualities and he can take that expulsion with love and faith. As he is connected properly with Christ, he is upheld through the travail. Only those, who obey Christ in love-works sincerely, increase in love to be connected to him, not proud faith proclaimers.

Easy ‘Christians’ will vehemently oppose this but I must proclaim what spirit dictates me.

The "Spirit" whatever it is, has lied to you.

Salvation is God's great free gift for all of humanity.

To say that it must be earned through suffering simply is not true nor is it scriptural.

You have failed to understand the implications of the Gospel. Jesus Christ died for the sins of the whole world, Hebrews 2:9. 1 John 2:2. Salvation has ALREADY been provided for all who want to be saved, Romans 10:13. No one needs to suffer to obtain it, it is a free gift from God, Ephesians 2:8.

 

[TruthSetsFree]

martyrs like Edmund Campion??

 

[stephengoswami]

martyrs like Edmund Campion??

Every martyr comes from corrupted humanity, whether catholic, protestant, orthodox, hindu, muslim, Christian, communist etc. They might have hated eachother before, even when calling themselves falsely as Christians.
But when they come to obey Christ in loving the enemy as same like friend, they become worthy to be Christian martyr. Then they will rise over denominations to the unifier Christ. We harm ourselves if we denominationise them.
If Edmund Campion was such christlike loving and forgiving at the last moment, as it happened often by the grace of holy spirit, he is certainly a real martyr. He will be united with the real one heavenly church of all real christfollowers.

 

[stephengoswami]

Striving and Test is needed for any promotion or gift. That is told in the gospel many times. But for ur tone suggests that you are not going to understand and I am not going to waste my time.

 

[TruthSetsFree]

Every martyr comes from corrupted humanity, whether catholic, protestant, orthodox, hindu, muslim, Christian, communist etc. They might have hated eachother before, even when calling themselves falsely as Christians.
But when they come to obey Christ in loving the enemy as same like friend, they become worthy to be Christian martyr. Then they will rise over denominations to the unifier Christ. We harm ourselves if we denominationise them.
If Edmund Campion was such christlike loving and forgiving at the last moment, as it happened often by the grace of holy spirit, he is certainly a real martyr. He will be united with the real one heavenly church of all real christfollowers.

he was a priest in the time of Elizabeth I, Catholic-hater queen

he was hunted down and put to a HIDEOUS death because of his crime of ...

get this...

:drum:

saying MASS

there are not many (if any at all??) incidents in history of catholics putting protestants to deaht 4 merely assembling togehter

 

[TruthSetsFree]

interesting... no answer

history disproves the protestant position

 

[stephengoswami]

he was a priest in the time of Elizabeth I, Catholic-hater queen

he was hunted down and put to a HIDEOUS death because of his crime of ...

get this...

:drum:

saying MASS

there are not many (if any at all??) incidents in history of catholics putting protestants to deaht 4 merely assembling togehter

Please read Reformation and inquisition history to know that Catholics were more atrocious

 

[Mike C.]

Martyrs’ travail pain through the straight gate to humble heaven.
When infants are expelled from womb by terrible pain through a constricted passage often deaths occur. After expulsion that pain compels the infant to open its hitherto useless lungs. From now on he will live by the air of the wide open world. If the travail doesn’t do it further pain is administered to activate its lungs.
A new birth in spiritual infinite heaven is similar. A small thing’s passage is necessarily small for its safety. Our world is very small compared to the spiritual world as earth is compared to sun. Those who seek new heavenly birth must go through it, no less. The expelling force of the womb, which can no longer tolerate it, must be enough to get rid of it as soon as possible. It can’t be instantaneous though, as there are attachments to be torn apart and weakness of the passage and baby.
From Christ to present day martyrs in communist, Muslim lands or anywhere we see the spectacle of spiritual new birth process again and again. Unless one goes through it there is no salvation in spite of their proud loud proclamation of faith.
I believe that those dying natural death is not eligible for salvation. The fact, that world didn’t expel them forcibly, proves their unheavenliness. As, air can’t be tolerated by body except in lung; so, self-sacrificing heaven can’t be tolerated by selfish world.
Of course there are plenty fake martyrs, who die not in love but in hate, greed, pride etc. They can’t go to love-heaven. It can’t the other than love as only love can abidingly hold together a vast heaven.

But, to be worthy to die Christ-like, one must cultivate Christ-like qualities incessantly. This Christ exhorted in ten virgins and other places. Without cultivation these qualities will not survive as weeds of the world is sure to overwhelm them. Then during test one will fail and make compromises with the world. He can put up a façade of piety to delude the naïve world though. If salvation could be got without martyrdom then Christ wouldn’t have died on the cross.

Of course we can’t make ourselves martyrs. Only when Christ evaluates one worthy to go through martyrdom-travail he lets him. Then world no longer can tolerate him for his obvious heaven-like qualities and he can take that expulsion with love and faith. As he is connected properly with Christ, he is upheld through the travail. Only those, who obey Christ in love-works sincerely, increase in love to be connected to him, not proud faith proclaimers.

Easy ‘Christians’ will vehemently oppose this but I must proclaim what spirit dictates me.

Christ has already addressed this thought. Read John 21:22 and the context. What is it to you how Jesus determines someone should die (meaning, the type of death is not important)? Follow Christ. That's what is really important.

 

[stephengoswami]

Christ has already addressed this thought. Read John 21:22 and the context. What is it to you how Jesus determines someone should die (meaning, the type of death is not important)? Follow Christ. That's what is really important.

If one follows Christ truly he is sure to be persecuted by the Devil's world. That is a sure sign of a Christ-follower. But clever people can compromise with the world and put up a facade of following Christ

 

[Mike C.]

If one follows Christ truly he is sure to be persecuted by the Devil's world. That is a sure sign of a Christ-follower.

That doesn't always mean a death sentence, however. God makes the final decision as to a person's fate. You have your eyes on the wrong target. Christ said to worry about following him and not about what is going on in other persons' lives. According to tradition, the apostle John died of old age. If that account is true, then your theory is seriously challenged. You can't judge a person rightly if you only look at the appearance of things.

But clever people can compromise with the world and put up a facade of following Christ

Certainly.

 

[Bradley D]

If a Christian does not feel persecution they are doing something wrong. They will be looked down upon even by their own family. I saw where a man forgave a murderer of a family member. That man is detested by his own family.

"And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved' (Matthew 10:21-22).

If one does not feel persecution from Satan in their Christian walk. Then they both may be heading in the same direction.

 

[Mike C.]

If a Christian does not feel persecution they are doing something wrong.

To some God appoints trials, and to others He appoints peace.

 

[Bradley D]

To some God appoints trials, and to others He appoints peace.

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world" (John 16:33).

 

[Mike C.]

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world" (John 16:33).

An absolute statement, or a general description?

 

[Bradley D]

An absolute statement, or a general description?

If one is a Christian they will face tribulation of some sort since they are not of the world. If not than they are being worldly.

"I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world" (John 17:14).

 

[Mike C.]

If one is a Christian they will face tribulation of some sort since they are not of the world. If not than they are being worldly.

I disagree; Jesus never said that. You've created a sort of anti-prosperity gospel. We are instructed not to judge by the appearance, which is what you are doing.

"I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world" (John 17:14).

They world may hate us, but that doesn't necessarily mean we will face persecution, unless you consider internet mocking to be persecution. A person may never encounter the occasion to become persecuted in their life. Not everybody is a public preacher, and American is fairly tolerant.

 

[Bradley D]

I disagree; Jesus never said that. You've created a sort of anti-prosperity gospel. We are instructed not to judge by the appearance, which is what you are doing.


They world may hate us, but that doesn't necessarily mean we will face persecution, unless you consider internet mocking to be persecution. A person may never encounter the occasion to become persecuted in their life. Not everybody is a public preacher, and American is fairly tolerant.

"That no man should be moved by these afflictions: for yourselves know that we are appointed thereunto" (1 Thessalonians 3:3).


I disagree. All Christians will face tribulation and persecution to some degree. Whether from without or within. I do not find America rather tolerant these days. I see liberals attacking religion whenever they can. One cannot speak of God in public schools. Ten Commandments displays being removed from Court Houses. Religion is mocked and made fun of on TV. Religious displays on public land are under attack. A cross in the desert commemorating Veterans was taken down/stolen. If one speaks against liberals they are mocked and even called racists.

Also one should fear tribulation from within. Our evil imaginations and human nature works against us. The media/entertainment industry promote sex and violence. So not to feel some kind of tribulation/persecution then one is living in a closet or a cave. And even there Satan will persecute us.

 

[Mike C.]

"That no man should be moved by these afflictions: for yourselves know that we are appointed thereunto" (1 Thessalonians 3:3).


I disagree. All Christians will face tribulation and persecution to some degree. Whether from without or within. I do not find America rather tolerant these days. I see liberals attacking religion whenever they can. One cannot speak of God in public schools. Ten Commandments displays being removed from Court Houses. Religion is mocked and made fun of on TV. Religious displays on public land are under attack. A cross in the desert commemorating Veterans was taken down/stolen. If one speaks against liberals they are mocked and even called racists.

Also one should fear tribulation from within. Our evil imaginations and human nature works against us. The media/entertainment industry promote sex and violence. So not to feel some kind of tribulation/persecution then one is living in a closet or a cave. And even there Satan will persecute us.

If you consider general opposition and trials to be tribulation, then yes, I agree all Christians will face such. Your original examples (post #12) did not lend itself to that liberal of an interpretation. I can think of people who might serve their church body directly without conducting missions to the outside world. If their family are all believers as well as their neighbors and friends, then there is nothing wrong with their life situation. They simply don't serve in a capacity that lends itself to serious persecution. Not everybody is called to be a preacher. Of course, they will still be bothered by the secular world.

My main concern is that your position condemns (and that, by the appearance of things) rather than encourages (which remains open to the truth). The apostles in their encouraging epistles gave us a good example of how to approach this issue. When there was grievous offenses, they rebuked. When there was simply a lack of excellence, they exhorted. They never said anything of the like: "You aren't persecuted enough."

 

[Bradley D]

When we face tribulation and persecution we are to "rejoice." Facing such for the Kingdom of God is a joy and a privilege.

"Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you" (Matthew 5:11-12).