ECT MAD is defeated by the locked timeframe of Lk 23

[Right Divider]

Why didn't Jesus go and heal everyone around the sheep gate pool?
Why wasn't he able to do mighty works in Nazareth?

Be careful, you're bordering on blaspheme there.

Because of the same reason you're demonstrating here.

And yet Peter and the eleven healed every one. You faith healers are all alike, it's always the other guys fault (just like musterion predicted).

So you can also speak all languages?

 

[andyc]

Be careful, you're bordering on blaspheme there.


And yet Peter and the eleven healed every one. You faith healers are all alike, it's always the other guys fault (just like musterion predicted).

So you can also speak all languages?

Its not blasphemy to raise points from scripture to show where Jesus didn't do what you think he should have done.
It shows that faith is a key factor, and madists despise faith.

 

[Right Divider]

It's proper context.

Christ Jesus reigns right now. He doesn't come back to earth to reign.

Dan 7 proves it:

(Dan 7:13-14) “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

As we see above, Christ Jesus' coronation was at His ascension, NOT His second coming.

WOW.... talk about Mr. Backwards!

Acts 1:9-12 (AKJV/PCE)​

(1:9) And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. (1:10) And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; (1:11) Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. (1:12) Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey. ​

This will be His RETURN (i.e., "shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven") to ESTABLISH His Kingdom on the earth, just like He told His apostles to PRAY FOR in Matt 6:10

Here is another passage that describes His RETURN to the EARTH:

Zech 14:1-11 (AKJV/PCE)​

(14:1) Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. (14:2) For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. (14:3) Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. (14:4) ¶ And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which [is] before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, [and there shall be] a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. (14:5) And ye shall flee [to] the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, [and] all the saints with thee. (14:6) And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] the light shall not be clear, [nor] dark: (14:7) But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, [that] at evening time it shall be light. (14:8) And it shall be in that day, [that] living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. (14:9) And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. (14:10) All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and [from] the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses. (14:11) And [men] shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited. ​

Note the perfect match with Acts 1.

 

[Right Divider]

Its not blasphemy to raise points from scripture to show where Jesus didn't do what you think he should have done.
It shows that faith is a key factor, and madists despise faith.

Lying again andyc, shame on you. You're not a very good "Christian".

No, we do NOT despise faith, we embrace the proper faith.... unlike the false faith that you have.

Eph 2:8-9 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast. ​

P.S. My point about blaspheme is that you are saying that there is something that the LORD Jesus could not do. Figures that you would not understand that as you're not too bright.

 

[andyc]

Lying again andyc, shame on you. You're not a very good "Christian".

No, we do NOT despise faith, we embrace the proper faith.... unlike the false faith that you have.

Eph 2:8-9 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast. ​

P.S. My point about blaspheme is that you are saying that there is something that the LORD Jesus could not do. Figures that you would not understand that as you're not too bright.

No. I'm not saying that there is something Jesus couldnt do, scripture is saying this. Do you agree?

 

[Right Divider]

No. I'm not saying that there is something Jesus couldnt do, scripture is saying this. Do you agree?

You always say things but you never give the actual scripture.

 

[andyc]

You always say things but you never give the actual scripture.

I don't usually withhold scripture references, but in your case I'm testing you. Were there mighty works that Jesus was unable to do?
You really want to say no, don't you? :chuckle:

 

[tetelestai]

WOW.... talk about Mr. Backwards!

​

Wrong again, Wrong Divider.

The Daniel passage clearly shows the coronation happening right after the ascension:

(Dan 7:13-14) “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Psalm 2 and Psalm 110 confirm that Christ began reigning immediately after the ascension.

Peter confirms it:

(1 Peter 3:22) Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.​

 

[tetelestai]

So in the case of this Daniel passage, is it written as though in heaven and Christ is approaching from earth--the ascension after the 40 day seminar?

Yes, from heaven.

We know that from verses 9-10:

(Dan 7:9-10) As I looked,

“thrones were set in place,
and the Ancient of Days took his seat.
His clothing was as white as snow;
the hair of his head was white like wool.
His throne was flaming with fire,
and its wheels were all ablaze.
10 A river of fire was flowing,
coming out from before him.
Thousands upon thousands attended him;
ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him.
The court was seated,
and the books were opened.


Does the above sound like something on planet earth?

Plus:

(Dan 7:16) I approached one of those standing there and asked him the meaning of all this.


Daniel couldn't have approached someone on earth, as no one on earth would have been able to give the meanings.

Again, Dan 7 clearly shows that Christ began reigning immediately after His ascension, NOT at the second coming.

 

[Right Divider]

Wrong again, Wrong Divider.

The Daniel passage clearly shows the coronation happening right after the ascension:

(Dan 7:13-14) “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Psalm 2 and Psalm 110 confirm that Christ began reigning immediately after the ascension.

Peter confirms it:

(1 Peter 3:22) Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

Excellent job of IGNORING those CLEAR and PLAIN scriptures about His RETURN IN LIKE MANNER and ALSO the Zechariah's reference TO THE SAME!

Make sure that you continue to ignore Matt 6:10 also.

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...ame-of-Lk-23&p=4816060&viewfull=1#post4816060

Just believe the Bible instead of trying to force-fit it to your false doctrines.

 

[Right Divider]

Bonus scripture:

Luke 19:11-12 (AKJV/PCE)​

(19:11) And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear. (19:12) He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. ​

 

[Interplanner]

Bonus scripture:

Luke 19:11-12 (AKJV/PCE)​

(19:11) And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear. (19:12) He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. ​

There are several problems here RD:
the 'return in like manner' is only about the fact that it is friendly for believers. It will be exciting, amazing, not frightening. Besides, where is the theocratic state all set up and operating Judaism when he leaves?

2, Mt 6:10. You must be kidding. it's a prayer. it is the last place to settle 'eschatology debate' scores! Many times 'gea' meant the land of Israel in the Gospels because of the immediate warnings and application to what was happening in that generation. For ex., 'the meek will inherit the (land)' because the (aggressive) zealots would agitate Rome.

3, as previously discussed about the receiving a kingdom in a far country, all analogies break down. We are not told that parable is a perfect fit of all other earth events are we?

We are also not told that the return was very delayed. Thus it could actually destroy what you are saying because they should have known he had received it. I'm pretty sure it is one of many warnings to Israel to be in the mission of God or else they would die fighting for Judea and lose badly. The people who didn't want him to be king were where the money was lent, weren't they?

 

[Right Divider]

There are several problems here RD:
the 'return in like manner' is only about the fact that it is friendly for believers. It will be exciting, amazing, not frightening. Besides, where is the theocratic state all set up and operating Judaism when he leaves?

Let me start by saying that you are a raving lunatic.

Where EXACTLY do you get THAT as the meaning of "in like manner" FROM THE TEXT? There is absolutely NO way that you can conclude such a ridiculous "interpretation" from the Bible TEXT. Also, do not ignore the PROPHESY in Zechariah 14 which SHOWS the LORD putting His FEET down in the EXACT same place that He left! Make sure you read about what else that the LORD does in the remainder of Zechariah 14.

2, Mt 6:10. You must be kidding. it's a prayer. it is the last place to settle 'eschatology debate' scores! Many times 'gea' meant the land of Israel in the Gospels because of the immediate warnings and application to what was happening in that generation. For ex., 'the meek will inherit the (land)' because the (aggressive) zealots would agitate Rome.

Once again, this is more ridiculous "fairy tale" telling on your part without a single clue.

Yes, it is a prayer. It is a pray where Jesus was teaching THEM how to pray. They were to pray that the KINGDOM COME on EARTH as it is in heaven (i.e., the kingdom of heaven).

No, the meek will inherent the earth because God will destroy the proud and arrogant.

3, as previously discussed about the receiving a kingdom in a far country, all analogies break down. We are not told that parable is a perfect fit of all other earth events are we?

Seeing what you "believe" there is no telling what you will say about anything.

We are also not told that the return was very delayed.

So you believe that God owes you an explanation of everything that you think that you want to know, eh?

Thus it could actually destroy what you are saying because they should have known he had received it. I'm pretty sure it is one of many warnings to Israel to be in the mission of God or else they would die fighting for Judea and lose badly. The people who didn't want him to be king were where the money was lent, weren't they?

:juggle:

As for more on the "meek", read Isaiah.

Isa 61:1-3 (AKJV/PCE)​

(61:1) The Spirit of the Lord GOD [is] upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to [them that are] bound; (61:2) To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; (61:3) To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified. ​

Verse TWO is the one that the Lord Jesus STOPPED reading HALFWAY through and CLOSED the BOOK!

Luke 4:16-21 (AKJV/PCE)​

(4:16) ¶ And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. (4:17) And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, (4:18) The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, (4:19) To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. (4:20) And he closed the book, and he gave [it] again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. (4:21) And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. ​

Did you notice the PART of that PROPHESY that was NOT fulfilled in their hearing?

 

[Interplanner]

Let me start by saying that you are a raving lunatic.

Where EXACTLY do you get THAT as the meaning of "in like manner" FROM THE TEXT? There is absolutely NO way that you can conclude such a ridiculous "interpretation" from the Bible TEXT. Also, do not ignore the PROPHESY in Zechariah 14 which SHOWS the LORD putting His FEET down in the EXACT same place that He left! Make sure you read about what else that the LORD does in the remainder of Zechariah 14.


Once again, this is more ridiculous "fairy tale" telling on your part without a single clue.

Yes, it is a prayer. It is a pray where Jesus was teaching THEM how to pray. They were to pray that the KINGDOM COME on EARTH as it is in heaven (i.e., the kingdom of heaven).

No, the meek will inherent the earth because God will destroy the proud and arrogant.


Seeing what you "believe" there is no telling what you will say about anything.


So you believe that God owes you an explanation of everything that you think that you want to know, eh?


:juggle:

As for more on the "meek", read Isaiah.

Isa 61:1-3 (AKJV/PCE)​

(61:1) The Spirit of the Lord GOD [is] upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to [them that are] bound; (61:2) To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; (61:3) To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified. ​

Verse TWO is the one that the Lord Jesus STOPPED reading HALFWAY through and CLOSED the BOOK!

Luke 4:16-21 (AKJV/PCE)​

(4:16) ¶ And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. (4:17) And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, (4:18) The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, (4:19) To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. (4:20) And he closed the book, and he gave [it] again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. (4:21) And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. ​

Did you notice the PART of that PROPHESY that was NOT fulfilled in their hearing?

It was painful. He didn't stop because it was not going to happen shortly. It happened in that generation. His whole purpose was to announce that the whole Messiah thing was fulfilled in their hearing and they were supposed to join behind him in preaching to the nations, Acts 26:23, I Pet 1.

He doesn't split passages in to 2P2P parts, some for now, some for X000 years later, etc. It remains coherent, and unified.

There was nothing meek about the zealots; they were vicious and violent. They were ruined in the DofJ. You need to know 1st century history better, not glommed-on theology.

Are you aware of how many pointed parables end up with the destroyed or burnt city or workers? There's a lot, because he was referring to the DofJ.

 

[Right Divider]

It was painful. He didn't stop because it was not going to happen shortly. It happened in that generation. His whole purpose was to announce that the whole Messiah thing was fulfilled in their hearing and they were supposed to join behind him in preaching to the nations, Acts 26:23, I Pet 1.

He doesn't split passages in to 2P2P parts, some for now, some for X000 years later, etc. It remains coherent, and unified.

There was nothing meek about the zealots; they were vicious and violent. They were ruined in the DofJ. You need to know 1st century history better, not glommed-on theology.

Are you aware of how many pointed parables end up with the destroyed or burnt city or workers? There's a lot, because he was referring to the DofJ.

:dizzy:
Read Zechariah and get back to us.

 

[Interplanner]

:dizzy:
Read Zechariah and get back to us.

That's a bit like trying to start with the Rev.

The thing is I do know Zech as used by the NT. That's where to start. Get back to that.

Why are the most tenacious doctrines you hold based on the passages which Christ and the apostles DID NOT QUOTE???

Anyway, leaving the scene described above is not solved by Zechariah. What is described above is history, which you seem to have an awful time integrating.

 

[Right Divider]

That's a bit like trying to start with the Rev.

:juggle:

The thing is I do know Zech as used by the NT. That's where to start. Get back to that.

Once AGAIN, you do NOT even know what the New COVENANT is.

Why are the most tenacious doctrines you hold based on the passages which Christ and the apostles DID NOT QUOTE???

Once AGAIN, your bogus theory that anything from the prophets that was not mentioned in the "NT" (which does NOT start at Matt 1:1 and does not include Paul's epistles) is somehow CANCELLED or ABANDONED is WRONG!

Anyway, leaving the scene described above is not solved by Zechariah. What is described above is history, which you seem to have an awful time integrating.

:juggle: