ECT Mad finds itself in the trash by applying simple logic

[Grosnick Marowbe]

He is filled with he spirit, which is something you despise greatly, as they also despised Christ.

LA

It's a good thing we have you around TOL. You are the ONLY poster on TOL who has the ABILITY to read the hearts and minds of ALL TOL participants. How do you do it? Were you born with it or did you acquire it at some point during your "Walk of Life?" Enquiring minds wish to know?

 

[Clete]

So far only one madist has tried to offer some kind of answer to the fact that a woman's many sins were forgiven on a basis other than the law of Moses, which madists think she was tied to, and Jesus was supposed to be enforcing.

Lighthouse said that God could just forgive her because......... well........because he's God. Although there are consequences to sin according to the law, God just randomly negated his own word simply because he felt like it at that moment.
You see, if this becomes the view of all maddists, and there really is no other view to take unless you accept that Jesus was ministering grace, not law, well then that ends the thread. You're admitting that God is not a God of his word.
If God can just forgive a woman's many sins even if it violates his own word, then he can just forgive everyones sins for no other reason than the fact he is God and can do what he wants.

Andy you're proving yourself to be a waste of everyone's time. You "answer" questions with double talk (intentionally) and ask questions of another paradigm that only make sense from within your own paradigm (i.e. question begging) and when that is pointed out, you ignore it and repeat the question and proclaim that we can't answer it. We have answered it, several times. You're just either stupid or dishonest.

Either way...

:wave2:

 

[Lighthouse]

Those who broke a law that was punishable by death, went to the grave condemned. Similar to a person on death row is going to the grave condemned. Whether those condemned in this world will go to heaven or hell, is for God to judge.

So they went straight to Hell? Do you have any Scripture to back that up?

So far only one madist has tried to offer some kind of answer to the fact that a woman's many sins were forgiven on a basis other than the law of Moses, which madists think she was tied to, and Jesus was supposed to be enforcing.

The Law was never for the forgiveness of sin. No one could ever be forgiven of sin/s through the Law. The sacrifices weren't even about forgiveness; they simply covered the sin in anticipation of Christ.

Lighthouse said that God could just forgive her because......... well........because he's God. Although there are consequences to sin according to the law, God just randomly negated his own word simply because he felt like it at that moment.

Forgiveness doesn't negate the consequences. A murderer still deserves to die for committing murder, regardless of whether God has forgiven them.

You see, if this becomes the view of all maddists, and there really is no other view to take unless you accept that Jesus was ministering grace, not law, well then that ends the thread.

Grace and law are not mutually exclusive. He ministered both. But He did not put Himself in a position to execute justice during His time here.

You're admitting that God is not a God of his word.

How so?

If God can just forgive a woman's many sins even if it violates his own word, then he can just forgive everyones sins for no other reason than the fact he is God and can do what he wants.

That's not what He did. She had faith, that she exercised.

 

[andyc]

Andy you're proving yourself to be a waste of everyone's time. You "answer" questions with double talk (intentionally) and ask questions of another paradigm that only make sense from within your own paradigm (i.e. question begging) and when that is pointed out, you ignore it and repeat the question and proclaim that we can't answer it. We have answered it, several times. You're just either stupid or dishonest.

Either way...

:wave2:

Amazing.

Only Lighthouse has attempted a response.

If you've answered it, no one has seen your answer.
If the woman was under the law, how could Jesus forgive sin?
It's such a simple question, and you can't answer it.

 

[andyc]

So they went straight to Hell? Do you have any Scripture to back that up?

I said, "that was for God to judge."

The Law was never for the forgiveness of sin. No one could ever be forgiven of sin/s through the Law. The sacrifices weren't even about forgiveness; they simply covered the sin in anticipation of Christ.

I agree. Even though the sacrificial system took away immediate judgement, it didn't remove the condemnation from the sinner's conscience. Only the blood of Jesus can do this. However, regarding the woman in Luke 7, it further proves that there was a grace at work apart from the law, which wouldn't make sense if Jesus was an enforcer of the law.

Forgiveness doesn't negate the consequences. A murderer still deserves to die for committing murder, regardless of whether God has forgiven them.

Right. However, while supposedly under the Mosaic law, Jesus forgave the woman's many sins. The Mosaic law was negated, and that means that faith laid hold of something that she would have been exempt from while under the law.

This is what none of you mads are understanding, or more to the point, not wanting to understand.

Grace and law are not mutually exclusive. He ministered both. But He did not put Himself in a position to execute justice during His time here.

He did not minister both :doh:

Grace is by faith, and law is by works. Both cannot coexist.

How so?

You know how so. I explained it plain enough.

That's not what He did. She had faith, that she exercised.

Just as we do today.

John 5:24 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

If a person has everlasting life, the law can no longer have a claim on them. They are free from it's condemnation, as the woman was.

 

[dodge]

I've been amused that the preterists here do not recognize that the very question put to Jesus Christ was concerning the law

John 8:5 KJV
(5) Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

Hello Tambora, I am amused that Madist skip over the TRUTH of why Jesus even came.

Jhn 1:17
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Have a blessed day.

 

[steko]

Hello Tambora, I am amused that Madist skip over the TRUTH of why Jesus even came.

Jhn 1:17
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Have a blessed day.

Do you believe that means there was zero truth and zero grace before the incarnation?

 

[dodge]

Do you believe that means there was zero truth and zero grace before the incarnation?

Not hardly ! Jesus fulfilled the requirements of the law and brought GRACE and TRUTH;otherwise, the woman caught in adultery would have been stoned. Remember Him saying neither do I condemn you ?

Do you believe that Jesus is NOT above the LAW having fulfilled "ALL" the requirements of the LAW ?

 

[andyc]

Do you believe that means there was zero truth and zero grace before the incarnation?

The important point is, what was it based on?
You need to give us some of your examples of grace under the old covenant.

 

[DAN P]

Hello Tambora, I am amused that Madist skip over the TRUTH of why Jesus even came.

Jhn 1:17
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Have a blessed day.

Hi and there is a difference BETWEEN GRACE /CHARIS and the DISPENSATION of the Grace of God , LIKE Rom 16:25 and 26 OR Col 1:25 and 26 or Eph 3:2 or show where Jesus ot the 12 TAUGHT GRACE or can you explain Acts 15:11 ??

Or are you going to RUN ??

dan p

 

[dodge]

Hi and there is a difference BETWEEN GRACE /CHARIS and the DISPENSATION of the Grace of God , LIKE Rom 16:25 and 26 OR Col 1:25 and 26 or Eph 3:2 or show where Jesus ot the 12 TAUGHT GRACE or can you explain Acts 15:11 ??

Or are you going to RUN ??

dan p

Rom 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.


ONE Gospel for both Jew and Greek as taught by none other than the Apostle Paul.

 

[DAN P]

Rom 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.


ONE Gospel for both Jew and Greek as taught by none other than the Apostle Paul.

Hi and you have quoted a good verse for the Body of Christ but here again there is no " THE ) BEFORE Greek !!

And the 12 NEVER Preached Rom 1:16 , at all as Acts 15:11 reveals !!

dAN P

 

[Clete]

Amazing.

Only Lighthouse has attempted a response.

If you've answered it, no one has seen your answer.
If the woman was under the law, how could Jesus forgive sin?
It's such a simple question, and you can't answer it.

Jesus is God, Andy! He can forgive any sin He wants in the same manner He forgave anyone else after Moses and prior to the cross and the Dispensation of Grace.

Which has been pointed out to you multiple times and which has repeatedly caused you to imply that no one after Moses was saved and which has caused me (and others) to repeatedly ask you whether anyone was ever saved after Moses and if so, how was that accomplished which you have only ever answered with intentional double talk because you know that any answer to my question answers your question!

You are now doing nothing but lying! Either that or you are stupid which I do not believe is the case.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Clete]

Not hardly ! Jesus fulfilled the requirements of the law and brought GRACE and TRUTH;otherwise, the woman caught in adultery would have been stoned. Remember Him saying neither do I condemn you ?

Do you believe that Jesus is NOT above the LAW having fulfilled "ALL" the requirements of the LAW ?

One thing that should be remembered here is that the Law required the testimony of two or three witnesses to establish guilt. The witnesses all left without testifying against her. This allowed Jesus to not convict her and thereby escape the trap that the pharsiees had set for him since it was illegal under Roman rule to execute anyone without permission from the Roman authorities, all without violating the Law Himself.

Jesus was/is smarter than your average TOL participant.

 

[dodge]

One thing that should be remembered here is that the Law required the testimony of two or three witnesses to establish guilt. The witnesses all left without testifying against her. This allowed Jesus to not convict her and thereby escape the trap that the pharsiees had set for him since it was illegal under Roman rule to execute anyone without permission from the Roman authorities, all without violating the Law Himself.

Jesus was/is smarter than your average TOL participant.

Do you believe when Jesus told the woman neither do I condemn you go and sin no more meant nothing ?

 

[Right Divider]

Do you believe when Jesus told the woman neither do I condemn you go and sin no more meant nothing ?

You just love your own opinions, don't you?

 

[dodge]

You just love your own opinions, don't you?

Not my opinion it is in scripture. You might want to read it sometimes.


Jhn 8:11
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

 

[Crucible]

Do you believe when Jesus told the woman neither do I condemn you go and sin no more meant nothing ?

The word 'sin' is a more ambiguous word than what people make it to be today. It means, literally, to 'miss the mark'- the context of 'sin no more' can range from being perfect to simply not falling into wickedness.

 

[Right Divider]

Not my opinion it is in scripture. You might want to read it sometimes.

We know what the scripture says and what it means. You ignore what it means.

I explained this earlier in this thread and Clete mentioned it again, but YOU are so full of yourself that you ignore both of us AND the BIBLE.

The LAW required TWO or THREE witnesses.... everyone LEFT.... there were NO witnesses. ALSO, the LAW required that BOTH parties in the adultery be stoned, not just ONE of them.

According to the LAW, Jesus could not rightly condemn her.

 

[dodge]

We know what the scripture says and what it means. You ignore what it means.

I explained this earlier in this thread and Clete mentioned it again, but YOU are so full of yourself that you ignore both of us AND the BIBLE.

The LAW required TWO or THREE witnesses.... everyone LEFT.... there were NO witnesses. ALSO, the LAW required that BOTH parties in the adultery be stoned, not just ONE of them.

According to the LAW, Jesus could not rightly condemn her.

I do not ignore scripture and what you accuse me off is EXACTLY what your doing.


You IGNORE that Jesus said neither do I condemn you and :

Jhn 1:17
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.