ECT Luke's Parable of Minas

Interplanner

Well-known member
1, Christ is the man who ascended to heaven and recieved a kingdom; he had left business in the charge of others.
2, the business is the mission of the Gospel, and especially what Jews should be doing about it
3, they didn't want the job; they hated him. He was 'made king' anyway
4, Some of them did the work; some were timid and hid the money instead of at least banking it.
5, He came back in that generation to exact judgement, which naturally or inevitably was the destruction of Jerusalem because those who hated him spent their time on other pursuits.
6, the 'cities' are less than kingdoms but they are realms of influence that those believers will have going forward through time. Some believers who hide the gift given them will have any result removed from them and given to others.

If the parable lacks anything, it is that it would be great to have a line about what the rejectors did with their time while he was away.
 

DAN P

Well-known member
1, Christ is the man who ascended to heaven and recieved a kingdom; he had left business in the charge of others.
2, the business is the mission of the Gospel, and especially what Jews should be doing about it
3, they didn't want the job; they hated him. He was 'made king' anyway
4, Some of them did the work; some were timid and hid the money instead of at least banking it.
5, He came back in that generation to exact judgement, which naturally or inevitably was the destruction of Jerusalem because those who hated him spent their time on other pursuits.
6, the 'cities' are less than kingdoms but they are realms of influence that those believers will have going forward through time. Some believers who hide the gift given them will have any result removed from them and given to others.

If the parable lacks anything, it is that it would be great to have a line about what the rejectors did with their time while he was away.

Hi and I believe what Luke 13:6-9 says , The Nation was not BEARING Fruit !!

And there is another parable in Mark 12:1-7 similar to Luke 13:6-9 !!

dan p
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Hi and I believe what Luke 13:6-9 says , The Nation was not BEARING Fruit !!

And there is another parable in Mark 12:1-7 similar to Luke 13:6-9 !!

dan p


OK. Where do we disagree? He wanted Israel to bear fruit, and it used to be 'the vineyard.' But RD, for one, wanted to know what I thought the trip to receive another kingdom meant. (Actually, I'm being generous. He was ready to rip me for not knowing what that kingdom was.)

With the mention of receiving another kingdom (in heaven), people are naturally curious as to who the people were who were given money. I think it might be safe to say, Jewish Christians, showing once again that he really wanted to engage Jews in the mission.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Preterism is wrong -


What brought that up? is the parable of Mt 21 about the vineyard "wrong" just because it is not futurist? Is the exchange about marriage in the next age "right" because it is future? Jesus had many, many topics to deal with didn't he? It is mistaken to filter everything to see if it might have been about his own generation and say it is wrong, period.
 

DAN P

Well-known member
OK. Where do we disagree? He wanted Israel to bear fruit, and it used to be 'the vineyard.' But RD, for one, wanted to know what I thought the trip to receive another kingdom meant. (Actually, I'm being generous. He was ready to rip me for not knowing what that kingdom was.)

With the mention of receiving another kingdom (in heaven), people are naturally curious as to who the people were who were given money. I think it might be safe to say, Jewish Christians, showing once again that he really wanted to engage Jews in the mission.


Hi and that Kingdom was the Kingdom that Jesus would sit on David's Throne !!

dan p
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
David had no throne in heaven.

GOD will not alter His promise to David.


It is NOT altered, no matter what we see. Even in the middle of the height of the use of the first temple, what was David's question? that the nations would seek God. Well, now there is a Temple (Christ) and an eternal Sacrifice and a King on David's throne as his Son!

this is why Isaiah is quoted in Acts 13's sermon: the promises to David were given to Christ the Servant-King. God has not changed; he always meant for them to belong to the Son. Shadow has given way to Reality.
 

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
It is NOT altered, no matter what we see.

It certainly isn't.
But you keep describing it as altered.
I'm the one saying it is not altered in any way.


Even in the middle of the height of the use of the first temple, what was David's question? that the nations would seek God. Well, now there is a Temple (Christ) and an eternal Sacrifice and a King on David's throne as his Son!
GOD always had a plan to bless the nations through Abraham/Isaac's descendants.
Christ is not presently on David's throne.
The Scriptures define David's throne as Jerusalem on this earth over the twelve tribes in the land promised.

this is why Isaiah is quoted in Acts 13's sermon: the promises to David were given to Christ the Servant-King. God has not changed; he always meant for them to belong to the Son. Shadow has given way to Reality.

Ya' might want to read Is 49 again. There's a whole lot more there than the short reference in Acts 13 of GOD blessing the nations.
Hebrews uses the term 'shadows' to pertain to some things but to take license and apply it to prophecy as one chooses willy nilly is out of line. The OT is not 'all' shadows.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
It certainly isn't.
But you keep describing it as altered.
I'm the one saying it is not altered in any way.



GOD always had a plan to bless the nations through Abraham/Isaac's descendants.
Christ is not presently on David's throne.
The Scriptures define David's throne as Jerusalem on this earth over the twelve tribes in the land promised.



Ya' might want to read Is 49 again. There's a whole lot more there than the short reference in Acts 13 of GOD blessing the nations.
Hebrews uses the term 'shadows' to pertain to some things but to take license and apply it to prophecy as one chooses willy nilly is out of line. The OT is not 'all' shadows.



If God said the Davidic promises were given to Christ and are in effect now through the mission of the church, then it alters God's word to go back to a Judaic understanding.

The blessing to the nations was not 'through the law.' It appeared so, but that turns out to be the veiled understanding. The blessing and sharing of inheritance and membership is 'through the Gospel' as Eph 3:5 says. That is why it is a mistake to route everything back through anything in the old covenant or scheme.

The devastation that happened to Israel in the 1st century 'fulfilled all that was written' Lk 21. So I suppose you could say Acts 13 is not quite complete by saying that the resurrection of Christ for our justification is the fulfillment of all things promised. Fair point. But there is nothing else besides these two declarations. Anywhere in the NT where the promise of the land might factor in is not there:

1, Rom 4. The promise to Abraham had to do with the whole world
2, Acts 26's hearing. Israel keeps seeking a 'restoration' that Paul says has already come in the resurrection.
3, Heb 11. The believers weren't looking for Israel and they weren't seeking to return to Persia. They were seeking a heavenly place and the promise that one day this world would be renovated.
4, 2 Pet 3. How could it possibly be missing from this chapter? How could Peter have made the mistake of not spelling out Judaic details with TONS of OT prophecy to quote that 'sound' Judaic?

There is no 2P2P in the NT. That is the mistake of trying make the old covenant continue on instead of being set aside as in Heb 8-10. 2P2P folks go into contortions with Hebrews trying to make it say both things. One of the lines goes 'It is only for that generation of Jewish Christians and is about the restoration of the land.' ??? Really? It is quite the opposite. It for all people and anything that is expressed about a restoration is not in Judea but is awaiting above, though very dear, for the Christian believer.

I guess you don't use the NT as the authority of the OT as you should. How do you justify that? If the summary of Paul about isiaah 49 is found in Acts 13, why do we think we 'know more than Paul' about it?

You are not processing what hebrews is saying about the old scheme. Even though Hebrews is the letter that announces a replacement (8:7, 13, 10:9), people have been made to feel guilty about RT regardless. The odd thing about this is that:

1, the real RT problem is that of Gal 3:17
2, we are not replacing anything if Christ was meant all along.

I'm sure you know Hebrews well enough to know that it spends a chapter on the Aaronic priesthood vs Melchizedek. Why? To show that there was already an eternal priesthood before the Law and Moses and Aaron ever arrived. So if Christ was that priest, what is the big deal about dropping it now that it's function is over with?

re the prophets descriptions of the next age:
they had no other tools but the familiar scenes and experiences, but they keep pushing the boundaries to the rest of mankind. This is clarified by statements in the NT, especially Eph 2B-3A. Or the quote of Amos in Acts 15. What they were trying to describe is the living temple of Christ that was reaching the islands and distant shores.
 

DAN P

Well-known member
OK. Where do we disagree? He wanted Israel to bear fruit, and it used to be 'the vineyard.' But RD, for one, wanted to know what I thought the trip to receive another kingdom meant. (Actually, I'm being generous. He was ready to rip me for not knowing what that kingdom was.)

With the mention of receiving another kingdom (in heaven), people are naturally curious as to who the people were who were given money. I think it might be safe to say, Jewish Christians, showing once again that he really wanted to engage Jews in the mission.


Hi and I had to leave and here is more ;

There is the Kingdom of God

There is the Kingdom of Heaven

There is the Kingdon of His Dear Son

They will become the Kingdom of His Father

There are probably more , so take your pick !!

If I remember , there were some that were given Talents and some doubled and one HID IT and some were given cities !!

dan p
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Hi and I had to leave and here is more ;

There is the Kingdom of God

There is the Kingdom of Heaven

There is the Kingdon of His Dear Son

They will become the Kingdom of His Father

There are probably more , so take your pick !!

If I remember , there were some that were given Talents and some doubled and one HID IT and some were given cities !!

dan p



There are not several kingdoms and there is quite a stress on those in Israel becoming missionaries; this parable is one of them. The 'perish before me' is the DofJ, sadly.
 

DAN P

Well-known member
There are not several kingdoms and there is quite a stress on those in Israel becoming missionaries; this parable is one of them. The 'perish before me' is the DofJ, sadly.


Hi and you say that what I wrote was not correct , so which ones are wrong ?

So , where is there a verse for your Kingdom ?

dan p
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Hi and you say that what I wrote was not correct , so which ones are wrong ?

So , where is there a verse for your Kingdom ?

dan p



There arent' several, so all the verses are about the one kingdom. That's what the prophets said was coming, not a restored theocracy in Judea. As for outward show, it's king would enter Jerusalem unarmed and alone on a young donkey!
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
There arent' several, so all the verses are about the one kingdom. That's what the prophets said was coming, not a restored theocracy in Judea. As for outward show, it's king would enter Jerusalem unarmed and alone on a young donkey!
Still stuck in the old covenant huh?
 

DAN P

Well-known member
There arent' several, so all the verses are about the one kingdom. That's what the prophets said was coming, not a restored theocracy in Judea. As for outward show, it's king would enter Jerusalem unarmed and alone on a young donkey!


Hi and you say that there is only ONE KINGDOM , just like we say that there is ONLY ONE GOSPEL , the Revelation of the MYSTRY , Eph 3L2 and Rom 16:25 and 26 ??

dan p
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
That's three questions at once.

1, you have said several times there are several gospels. I don't accept that.

2, yes there is one kingdom of God that arrives; actually it is a reign. To honor the Son as we ought is to live under his reign.

3, the Gospel was hidden in the OT materials, but is seen in Christ. It was not utterly nowhere in the Bible; there are clues and there are things that could only be the Gospel in its pages. But too much of 1st century Judaism thought that the messianic age was going to be achieved through the law, and Paul counters that with 'no it is true and present in the Gospel.'

btw, the NIV of Rom 16 about 'since the beginning of the world' is not reliable. It's simply 'long ages.'
 
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