ECT "Lordship 'Salvation'"-perverting the gospel of Christ

john w

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The Biblical order is sonship/justification, then service/sanctification. Those who reverse this biblical order are putting the proverbial "horse before the cart," and are confusing service to God the Father as sons, with service to become adopted sons. Those who make statements such as "make Jesus Lord of your life", "turn your life over to Jesus, give your life to Jesus", despite the fact that the heart of the gospel is the Lord Jesus Christ giving His life for us, and has nothing to do with us giving him anything, make this deadly error. The LORD God needs nothing from us(Acts 17:25 KJV, Job 35:7 KJV, Haggai 2:8 KJV) and is not, and will not, condition/make "giving our life to Him"(service) the basis for His acceptance of us. Again, The LORD God has accepted the Lord Jesus Christ's voluntary sacrificial offering of His life, not ours, as proptiatory(satisfactory). All service is a priviledged responsibility given as a gift to those who have been declared adopted sons by faith in the finished and faithful work of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Holy means "sanctified"=set aside for God's purpose. But God only uses those instruments that are His sons, and "saints" describes those who are already justified=His="in Christ". And the LORD God would have us know this biblical order in Corithians-Paul calls the Corinthians, the most carnal, dirty, lustful group of believer what? Saints-not sinners.

Consider the book of Galatians, which is a stern, severe, corrective, and solemn message-there is no word of commendation, praise or thanksgiving. Paul's "heart" is laid bare here as the letters are peppered with deep emotion and strong feeling. This is his "fighting epistle"-he is on a war path, with no tolerance for legalism! It is the declaration of freedom from all types of legalism. While Romans was from Paul's "head" with its lawyerly, systematic treatise on justification by faith, and faith alone, Galatians was from his heart. It is the boldest, strongest declaration and defense(as is this brilliant, humble post) of the doctrine of justification by faith in and out of the scriptures, and, as such, is God's polemic on behalf of the most vital truth of the Christian truth against any attack. That is, not only is a sinner saved by grace through faith(not commitment), but the saved sinner lives by grace(sanctification=commitment=the Christian "walk"). But we must not confuse justification(the declaration of righteousness) with sanctification! Yes, we are saved from the penalty of sin(justification), the power of sin(sanctification), and the presense of sin(glorification), but these are not equivalent biblical doctrines, and people are perverting the gospel of Christ by putting the proverbial "horse before the cart", i. e., they are placing sanctification=commitment=give your life to Christ in the wrong biblical order-as a "prerequisite" to justification, or as the means to justification. No, No, No!! Interestingly enough, Paul had nothing but condemnation for the Galatians, and yet, for the Corinthians, as mentioned, the most carnal bunch of Christians, who were engaged in adultery, drunkeness, gluttony.....he had words of encouragement, and never questioned their justification, as witnessed by his continual reference to them as "in Christ", and as saints. This should be an object lesson for us all, and should cause each of us to cry with joy and praise for the truly amazing grace bestowed upon e! ach one of us wherby we are made "...accepted in the beloved...."(Ephesians 1:6 KJV) by this great God of ours(Psalms 145:3 KJV). And this should be our motivation to "...walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called...."(Ephesians 4:1 KJV), "..walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God...."(Colossians 1:10 KJV), "...walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory...."(1 Thessalonians 2:12 KJV), "..walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more...."(1 Thessalonians 4:1 KJV),."...as children of light...."(Ephesians 5:8 KJV), which is our "....reasonable service...."(Romans 12:1 KJV) as sons.

No one would disagree with anyone who would say we should "live a holy life before God"(sanctification), but not as a basis for our acceptance by Him-not as our basis for justification! We live a holy life because we are sons, because we are justified, because we are saved, not to be adopted sons not to be justified, not to be saved..

No one has,or can, truly(and this is a subjective criteria)repent(ed) of all their sins", no one has, or can "surrender 100% to the Lordship of Jesus Christ"(and this is a subjective criteria), no one has "put away the things or our previous life and life style", no one has, or can, "live(d) for God 100%", for all have been pronounced "guilty"(Romans 3:19 KJV), and "...come short of the glory of God...."(Romans 3:23 KJV), in not only what we do, but what we do not do, and how we think. Sin is not just "wrong doing", it is "wrong being". Nor will the LORD God accept any offering these acts of service as a basis for justification, but will only accept the death by blood offering of the Lord Jesus Christ's spotless life, not ours, and his resurrection, as a basis for our justification as sons.

Phrases such as "giving one's life, heart("commitment") is not the proper object of faith. Again, salvation has nothing to do with "giving" God anything! Salvation is not my gift to God. Rather, it is the issue of receiving a gift from God. The issue in salvation is not what we give to Him, but what He gives to us-eternal life. The issue is not giving your life to Christ-it is Christ giving up His life as an atoning sacrifice for you. Salvation has nothing to do with "giving up your life", "surrendering your life".........-It was the Lord Jesus Christ who gave up His life and made full surrender when he yielded His life at Calvary. Again, when a lost person is told to "surrender his life, give his life to Jesus, commit his life to Jesus.........", this wrongly presumes that a person has something worthy to give(whether that is time, money, service......), and confuses service/sanctification with salvation. It requires a "commitment" to serve Christ "up front" before salvation, and it presents a work-based performance system as a basis for acceptance by God.

Phrases such as "Give your heart to Jesus" may sound very romantic, but we are not saved by "falling in love with Jesus"-we are saved by believing in the Lord Jesus Christ's finished work at Calvary and His resurrection 3 days later. Giving one's heart, life(commitment) is an activity of service to the Lord, and and, as such, service and dedication is something the LORD appeals to believers to do(Romans 12:1-2 KJV, for eg.). But this is service from those who have become his own. The biblical order is sonship, then service. Service, then sonship is a work-based performance system, as typified by the Roman Catholic Organization, and "perverts the gospel of Christ"(Gal. 1:7 KJV). Statements such as " ...I believe salvation is a journey; it is not a moment in time" reflect this mindset and false doctrine. Sanctification is a journey, but justification is not. Justification is a "moment in time" declaration of righteousness, based on the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Practically every false doctrine is a result of "getting things out of order", as I mentioned previously. The divine order is justification, then change/sanctification, not change/sanctification and then salvation. Notice in Romans 4:5 KJV, God "justifieth the ungodly,"/Romans 5:6 KJV, "Christ died for the ungodly"-no "fixing yourself up first", no "stop sinning first".......... Notice in Romans 5:8 KJV, "while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us". Again, those who make statements such as "make Jesus Lord of your life", "turn your life over to Jesus, give your life to Jesus, commit your life to Jesus"(despite the fact that the heart of the gospel is the Lord Jesus Christ giving His life for us, and has nothing to do with us giving him anything!) make this deadly error-confusing sancification with justification.

Many error by thinking that "stop sinning"=acts of commission "solves the sin issue". You could "stop sinning" all the rest of your life(which is a self righteous pride that no one can do), and that would not allow you in the presence of our Holy God. Sin is not just wrong acts, it is "not doing what you are suppose to do", and it is "wrong thinking"-thus,"all have sinned and come short of the glory of God". The LORD God has pronounced all of us guilty, with no exceptions(read Romans again)-guilty of not only what we do, but guilty of falling short of his absolute standard, The Lord Jesus Christ="who he wants us to be." The biblical requirement is not just forgiveness=a pardon for an offence, but justification=a legal declaration of righteousness, and includes not just "stop doing what is wrong", but also doing everything that is right, in thought, word, and deed(had any evil thoughts today? I have). And this is "the righteousness of God in him"(2 Cor. 5:21 KJV), the "righteousness of God"(Romans 1:17 KJV), " righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe"(Romans 3:22 KJV), "And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith"(Philippians 3:9 KJV).



Who ever heard of "hiring your boss?"=Lordship Salvation


The Lord Jesus Christ is Lord, in the sense here of master, owner, controller, "boss", not because we "make" him such, but because God the Father gave him this position:

"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God(my emphasis) hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ(my emphasis)." Acts 2:36

Whether we believe it or not, does not change this fact.
 
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Lazy afternoon

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Luk 14:16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:
Luk 14:17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.
Luk 14:18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused.
Luk 14:19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused.
Luk 14:20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.
Luk 14:21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.
Luk 14:22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room.
Luk 14:23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.
Luk 14:24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.
Luk 14:25 And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them,
Luk 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
Luk 14:29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
Luk 14:30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
Luk 14:31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
Luk 14:32 Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.
Luk 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:34 Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned?
Luk 14:35 It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill; but men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
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Many error by thinking that "stop sinning"=acts of commission "solves the sin issue".

Good luck with that one. Not everybody has Jesse's will. This reminds me....just suppose andyc or elo were telling the truth and they don't covet any more. It doesn't matter.

Romans 5

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come
.
 
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Grosnick Marowbe

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Hall of Fame
Luk 14:16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:
Luk 14:17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.
Luk 14:18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused.
Luk 14:19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused.
Luk 14:20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.
Luk 14:21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.
Luk 14:22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room.
Luk 14:23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.
Luk 14:24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.
Luk 14:25 And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them,
Luk 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
Luk 14:29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
Luk 14:30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
Luk 14:31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
Luk 14:32 Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.
Luk 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:34 Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned?
Luk 14:35 It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill; but men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

All of those verses were not written to us. Why not try and catch up? You're attempting to live under the law?
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
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Most people think they can do something for God that will help their standing

Exodus 12

5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year. You may take it from the sheep or from the goats.

Leviticus 1

3 ‘If his offering is a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish; he shall offer it of his own free will at the door of the tabernacle of meeting before the Lord.

Leviticus 3

‘When his offering is a sacrifice of a peace offering, if he offers it of the herd, whether male or female, he shall offer it without blemish before the Lord.

Leviticus 5

18 And he shall bring to the priest a ram without blemish from the flock, with your valuation, as a trespass offering. So the priest shall make atonement for him regarding his ignorance in which he erred and did not know it, and it shall be forgiven him.

Leviticus 9

2 And he said to Aaron, “Take for yourself a young bull as a sin offering and a ram as a burnt offering, without blemish, and offer them before the Lord.

Leviticus 23

12 And you shall offer on that day, when you wave the sheaf, a male lamb of the first year, without blemish, as a burnt offering to the Lord.


-Book of details
 

Derf

Well-known member
The Biblical order is sonship/justification, then service/sanctification. Those who reverse this biblical order are putting the proverbial "horse before the cart", and are confusing service to God the Father as sons, with service to become adopted sons.
...
Practically every false doctrine is a result of "getting things out of order", as I mentioned previously.
...

So, if the proverb is actually "putting the cart before the horse", and you have gotten it out of order (see above, with my emphasis), what does that say about the doctrine in your post? :think:
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
So, if the proverb is actually "putting the cart before the horse", and you have gotten it out of order (see above, with my emphasis), what does that say about the doctrine in your post? :think:

Nice rhetorical question. Revised to: "putting the horse before the cart."

Even the great, magnificent, feared by all, respected by most, brilliant, charismatic, dashing, ................... and humble saint John W, occasionally(my emphasis) makes mistakes.

My brilliance stuns me, at times.
 
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