Looking at 2 Pet 2:1

beloved57

Well-known member
2 Pet 2:1


But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Many of the adversaries of limited atonement or to the Gospel doctrine that Christ died only for His Sheep/Elect always go to this scripture to prove that Christ died for not only His Sheep but the goats on His left hand as well, for which He will say Matt 25:41

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand [goats Vs 33], Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Now its time for the adversaries to limited atonement to prove that Christ actually died for the false teachers mentioned in 2 Pet 2:1. Prove that the buying there is the redemptive buying by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. They must prove that the Lord Jesus Christ is even meant in this verse.
 

FineLinen

Well-known member
Many of the adversaries of limited atonement or to the Gospel doctrine that Christ died only for His Sheep/Elect....

Your question for today=

Please list all Scripture in the Old & New Covenants that speak of "limited"?

Times up!

Exactly one (1} passage in both covenants. "ONE"

"YOU"

"have limited the Holy One of Israel."
 

Lon

Well-known member
Your question for today=

Please list all Scripture in the Old & New Covenants that speak of "limited"?

Times up!

Exactly one (1} passage in both covenants. "ONE"

"YOU"

"have limited the Holy One of Israel."

:nono:

Matthew 7:13-14,21

"Limited" is in EVERY CHRISTIAN'S vocabulary BUT the universalist. True story, Only those 'made right' (definition of atonement) with God, are right with God therefore it is limited, indeed, or ELSE you are a universalist. One is simply arguing degrees of limitation after that. We all believe in a limited atonement. What those who argue with Calvinists mean by disagreement at that point is not limitation, for they believe in limitation too, what they mean is that God doesn't have perfect foreknowledge, but that His knowledge is contingent upon the choices of 'sovereign' men. I'm not posturing against you here, just trying to help you and all others recognize what is on the table with such a discussion as this. We all believe in a limitation or there is no gospel because there is nothing you'd need do to be saved, already done. The issue is ALWAYS who's hands Salvation is in. Monergists believe it is completely in God's hands alone 1 Corinthians 4:7 Proverbs 16:9 James 4:13-16 (reconcile the scriptures with me).
 

FineLinen

Well-known member
:nono:

Matthew 7:13-14,21

"Limited" is in EVERY CHRISTIAN'S vocabulary BUT the universalist. True story, Only those 'made right' (definition of atonement) with God, are right with God therefore it is limited, indeed, or ELSE you are a universalist. One is simply arguing degrees of limitation after that. We all believe in a limited atonement.


There is absolutely zero "limited" in the unlimited One! Our view of Him in our wee experience reveals where we dwell. He dwells in unlimited! Until our experience explodes in His Presence "limited" will dominate us.

"Of Him, by Him, for Him."
 

FineLinen

Well-known member
:nono:

We all believe in a limitation or there is no gospel because there is nothing you'd need do to be saved, already done. The issue is ALWAYS who's hands Salvation is in. Monergists believe it is completely in God's hands alone 1 Corinthians 4:7 Proverbs 16:9 James 4:13-16 (reconcile the scriptures with me).

That is precisely the issue! His Purpose is centered entirely in Himself, with no consultation with another. Faith must flow from Him (we live by the faith of the Son of God) & repentance must "be granted/given". He calls, we follow! I like this World of His very much! One small glimpse of Him shatters our wee endeavor not only into pieces, it grinds the pieces into powder!
 

MennoSota

New member
:nono:

Matthew 7:13-14,21

"Limited" is in EVERY CHRISTIAN'S vocabulary BUT the universalist. True story, Only those 'made right' (definition of atonement) with God, are right with God therefore it is limited, indeed, or ELSE you are a universalist. One is simply arguing degrees of limitation after that. We all believe in a limited atonement. What those who argue with Calvinists mean by disagreement at that point is not limitation, for they believe in limitation too, what they mean is that God doesn't have perfect foreknowledge, but that His knowledge is contingent upon the choices of 'sovereign' men. I'm not posturing against you here, just trying to help you and all others recognize what is on the table with such a discussion as this. We all believe in a limitation or there is no gospel because there is nothing you'd need do to be saved, already done. The issue is ALWAYS who's hands Salvation is in. Monergists believe it is completely in God's hands alone 1 Corinthians 4:7 Proverbs 16:9 James 4:13-16 (reconcile the scriptures with me).
You speak to monergism versus synergism. There is a thread to address that distinction.
You are correct that unless you are a universalist you believe in a limited atonement. For the synergist it may only be limited by ones personal choice to not believe. In other words, the only sin God could not forgive or atone for is the sin of unbelief. Some would argue that the sin of unbelief is therefore the unforgivable sin.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lon

MennoSota

New member
There is absolutely zero "limited" in the unlimited One! Our view of Him in our wee experience reveals where we dwell. He dwells in unlimited! Until our experience explodes in His Presence "limited" will dominate us.

"Of Him, by Him, for Him."
So you're a unitarian/universalist then...
 

MennoSota

New member
That is precisely the issue! His Purpose is centered entirely in Himself, with no consultation with another. Faith must flow from Him (we live by the faith of the Son of God) & repentance must "be granted/given". He calls, we follow! I like this World of His very much! One small glimpse of Him shatters our wee endeavor not only into pieces, it grinds the pieces into powder!

Hitler grew up Roman Catholic. Did he not get a small glimpse of "Him?"
 

FineLinen

Well-known member
That is precisely the issue! His Purpose is centered entirely in Himself, with no consultation with another. Faith must flow from Him (we live by the faith of the Son of God) & repentance must "be granted/given". He calls, we follow! I like this World of His very much! One small glimpse of Him shatters our wee endeavor not only into pieces, it grinds the pieces into powder!

I can summarize my belief in six words!

"Of Him, through Him, to Him."
 

FineLinen

Well-known member
So you're a unitarian/universalist then...

My friend: answer no to universalist and unitarian! I do however believe the koine ta pante is the foundation for the "then" of your quote.

Ta pante= the all

"Through Him the all comes, through Him the all exists, and in Him the all ends..."

Please note:

Not pante: ta pante.
 

MennoSota

New member
My friend: answer no to universalist and unitarian! I do however believe the koine ta pante is the foundation for the "then" of your quote.

Ta pante= the all

"Through Him the all comes, through Him the all exists, and in Him the all ends..."

Please note:

Not pante: ta pante.

Forgive my ignorance...do you wear panties? That's about all I got from your response.
 

FineLinen

Well-known member
Friend: it is obvious you do not get it "got it"! If you would like to get beyond Kraft to the koine, I stand ready to respond! What part of ta pante evades your grasp?
 

Lon

Well-known member
There is absolutely zero "limited" in the unlimited One! Our view of Him in our wee experience reveals where we dwell. He dwells in unlimited! Until our experience explodes in His Presence "limited" will dominate us.

"Of Him, by Him, for Him."

Then you'd be a Universalist, by such a notion. God is not limited. The limitation here is this: Matthew 7:13-14 If you don't believe that, you don't believe God, right?
That is precisely the issue! His Purpose is centered entirely in Himself, with no consultation with another. Faith must flow from Him (we live by the faith of the Son of God) & repentance must "be granted/given". He calls, we follow! I like this World of His very much! One small glimpse of Him shatters our wee endeavor not only into pieces, it grinds the pieces into powder!

You argue with your heart and that is a great thing, but we need His truth to infiltrate us as well as we learn and grow in Him. Keep your love strong and build on your knowledge (same goes for me). Hosea 4:6 Romans 12:2
 

FineLinen

Well-known member
limitation here is this: Matthew 7:13-14 If you don't believe that, you don't believe God, right?
Then you'd be a Universalist, by such a notion. God is not limited. The

Wrong! I do appreciate that little expression on the bottom of your name, Lon!"Abundantly above.." That is precisely the point: all you can ask or think falls abundantly below the Unlimited One, far, far below! I grasp that our God has been declaring through the mouths of the prophets and sages the Restitution of all things from the earliest ages! That Day is clearly before us in the Scriptures; one may not see it, but it is there staring us in the face!

The Master does indeed speak of a narrow gate & a broad path! We all are on that path until by His apprehension He says enough. Even then the broad path tends to squeeze us into lower realms of thought & being. One can be of the 12 and still declare "how can these things be?" We later day saints are equally discombobulated until by the Holy Ghost awakening takes place. The time on the Road cannot solve our problem, we must know the anointing!

Come in F.W.R

https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/robertsons-word-pictures/matthew/matthew-7-13.html

"You argue with your heart and that is a great thing, but we need His truth to infiltrate us as well as we learn and grow in Him. Keep your love strong and build on your knowledge (same goes for me). Hosea 4:6 Romans 12:2"

My friend:

You will get nothing from F.L. in disagreement. Growing in Him is in the present continuous tense of "be being". May He lead all of us into His glorious expansion!
 

Lon

Well-known member
limitation here is this: Matthew 7:13-14 If you don't believe that, you don't believe God, right?

Wrong! I do appreciate that little expression on the bottom of your name, Lon!"Abundantly above.." That is precisely the point: all you can ask or think falls abundantly below the Unlimited One, far, far below! I grasp that our God has been declaring through the mouths of the prophets and sages the Restitution of all things from the earliest ages! That Day is clearly before us in the Scriptures; one may not see it, but it is there staring us in the face!

The Master does indeed speak of a narrow gate & a broad path! We all are on that path until by His apprehension He says enough. Even then the broad path tends to squeeze us into lower realms of thought & being. One can be of the 12 and still declare "how can these things be?" We later day saints are equally discombobulated until by the Holy Ghost awakening takes place. The time on the Road cannot solve our problem, we must know the anointing!

Come in F.W.R

https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/robertsons-word-pictures/matthew/matthew-7-13.html

"You argue with your heart and that is a great thing, but we need His truth to infiltrate us as well as we learn and grow in Him. Keep your love strong and build on your knowledge (same goes for me). Hosea 4:6 Romans 12:2"

My friend:

You will get nothing from F.L. in disagreement. Growing in Him is in the present continuous tense of "be being". May He lead all of us into His glorious expansion!

Being a Latter Day Saint, you have some commonality with me, but have a LOT to discuss between Joseph Smith's scriptural understanding, and the Protestant rest of Christendom. A huge huge point is Ephesians 2:8-10 for me.

I'd think you have been through some of these scriptures in the past, but they are very important for any believer. Without trying to attack, I believe Joseph Smith fell into the same works-based misapprehensions of scripture that others before and after him have fallen too. Romans 11:6 and again Ephesians 2:8-10 -Lon
 

FineLinen

Well-known member
Being a Latter Day Saint, you have some commonality with me, but have a LOT to discuss between Joseph Smith's scriptural understanding, and the Protestant rest of Christendom. A huge huge point is Ephesians 2:8-10 for me.

I'd think you have been through some of these scriptures in the past, but they are very important for any believer. Without trying to attack, I believe Joseph Smith fell into the same works-based misapprehensions of scripture that others before and after him have fallen too. Romans 11:6 and again Ephesians 2:8-10 -Lon

Dear Lon: I am NOT member of the "Latter Day Saints" I do have a friend on my roster on another thread who is an exceptional LDS believer. F.L is sorry for any confusion caused by my post. My goodness I am capable of causing enough confusion by trying, I do not desire to expand the situation! LOL.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Lon

Lon

Well-known member
We later day saints are equally discombobulated until by the Holy Ghost awakening takes place.

Dear Lon: I am NOT member of the "Latter Day Saints" I do have a friend on my roster on another thread who is an exceptional LDS believer. F.L is sorry for any confusion caused by my post. My goodness I am capable of causing enough confusion by trying, I do not desire to expand the situation! LOL.

I realize, now, you didn't capitalize, but yes, I assumed "LDS" rather than "lds." Thank you for the correction. -Lon
 
Top