Limiting the Death of Christ

[OZOS]

Again, Paul never stated that believing wasnt a work.

He did.

Rom 4:5 dosent say that

It does.

you cant read it appears

I can, and unlike you, I can also comprehend what I read.

And again, you teach people Christ shed His Blood for are lost

Yes, I do, because the Bible says so. It also says that not all are lost, those who believe are saved. The real difference is that I believe the Bible, and you do not.

which means you believe that His death for people in and of itself saves no one

It doesn't. Only those who believe the message preached are saved. You never have. Poor you.

 

[OZOS]

It teaches that those whom Christ died for (everyone) is justified, reconciled. Whether they choose to accept the free gift of salvation (believing, which isn't a work according to Paul) is up to them, and if they choose to reject that gift their entire life, then they will go to Hell on their own decision, not on God's, for God is not willing that ANY should perish.

Since I'm new here, it appears that I do not yet have the power to "like" posts, so I'm adding this post to say that "I like your post"

 

[beloved57]

It's stunning how you boldly reject scripture and yet claim otherwise.

Show one scripture that says believing isn't a work!

 

[beloved57]

He did. It does. I can, and unlike you, I can also comprehend what I read. Yes, I do, because the Bible says so. It also says that not all are lost, those who believe are saved. The real difference is that I believe the Bible, and you do not. It doesn't. Only those who believe the message preached are saved. You never have. Poor you.

So you don't believe that Christ blood saved them it was she'd for. That's unbeiief in Christ!

 

[JudgeRightly]

Show one scripture that says believing isn't a work!

Romans 4:5.

 

[JudgeRightly]

So you don't believe that Christ blood saved them it was shed for.

Considering that "justified" doesn't mean "saved," yes, that is correct.

Those who are saved are saved by Christ's being risen., not his blood.

That's unbeiief in Christ!

Don't conflate your false doctrines with the Creator who made you.

 

[beloved57]

When people limit the death of Christ, they limit also His Resurrection from the dead, which is His Life ! All they which are reconciled to God by His Death [legally] are also saved or made alive by His Life Rom 5:10

¹⁰ For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

This is saved from spiritual death and given spiritual Life. Christ for them He died, becomes a life giving Spirit 1 Cpr 15:45

⁴⁵ And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. All for whom Christ died shall be saved by His Life as they were by His death, its a package deal !

 

[OZOS]

When people limit the death of Christ, they limit also His Resurrection from the dead, which is His Life

You just made that up, not understanding the word of God or the gospel. His death is not "limited", except in your own perverted mind. He died for the sins of the whole world. In fact, YOU are the one who teaches that the death of Jesus is "limited". YOU claim that He only died for the "elect", and not for the sins of the whole world.

The gospel is simple and not convoluted, as you teach it.

Jesus died for all sins, of all men. The sin issue was settled "once for all" at the cross.

"But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God" Heb 10:12

"And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world." 1 John 2:2

"For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God." Rom 6:10

He was raised for our justification.

"and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins."

"It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification. Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" Rom 4:24-5:1

"Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgmentcame to ALL men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to ALL men, resulting in justification of life."

God's word could not be more clear - ALL sins of ALL men were propitiated at the cross, when Jesus shed His blood, so that the justification of life comes to ALL men. And it is imputed to ALL "who believe in Him". His death was NOT "limited" for any sin or for any man. He died for all.

It is not the body that gives life, but the Spirit.

"God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”" John 4:24

"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life." John 6:63

"...for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life." 2 Cor 3:6

"And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness." Rom 8:10

"But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you." Rom 8:11

All they which are reconciled to God by His Death [legally] are also saved or made alive by His Life Rom 5:10

"For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life."

Again, you fail to comprehend what you read. ALL men were His enemies, not just Calvinists. Calvinists are now just enemies of the cross, for they (YOU) claim that His death was "limited" to only the "elect". You deny that Jesus died for ALL sins of ALL men, thus denying the Gospel that saves those "who believe in Him".

ALL men are reconciled unto God by His death and therefore the justification of life comes to all men. Those "who believe in Him" receive His life, by the Spirit who comes to dwell in them. Salvation is the life of God dwelling in those who have believed the Gospel.

"Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you." Rom 8:9-11

Neither His death, nor His resurrection are "limited" to any man. Yet, the Spirit is given ONLY to those "who believe in Him". ONLY those who have received the Spirit have His life.

"He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life." 1 John 5:12

ONLY those who have believed the Gospel have received His life. Salvation is receiving His life, by the Spirit that dwells in them, which they received AFTER having heard and then believing what they heard, concerning the Son of God.

"In Him you also trusted, AFTER you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise".

The gospel is the power of God FOR salvation.

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes" Rom 1:16

All for whom Christ died shall be saved by His Life as they were by His death, its a package deal !

Not what Paul said. Paul is explaining HOW those "who believe" are saved (by His life). In order for men TO BE saved by His life, they must have been first reconciled by His death. The reconciliation is when Christ died for ALL sins of ALL men, so that ALL men are justified to receive His life AFTER they believe the Gospel.

 

[Nanja]

When people limit the death of Christ, they limit also His Resurrection from the dead, which is His Life ! All they which are reconciled to God by His Death [legally] are also saved or made alive by His Life Rom 5:10

¹⁰ For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

This is saved from spiritual death and given spiritual Life. Christ for them He died, becomes a life giving Spirit 1 Cpr 15:45

⁴⁵ And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. All for whom Christ died shall be saved by His Life as they were by His death, its a package deal !

Amen Brother, these Particular enemies Rom. 5:10 that Christ died for, it's guaranteed that they shall be saved [or made alive spiritually] by His Life.
For the quickening, or Life Giving Spirit in 1 Cor. 15:45, is the same Life they shall be saved by in Rom. 5:10; because right from the beginning they
were chosen to Salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the Truth 2 Thess. 2:13.

So in other words, this "package deal" cannot apply to all mankind without exception, because we know that many have not been saved by Christ's Life,
but have been appointed to have their part in the the second death Rev. 21:8.

 

[beloved57]

You just made that up, not understanding the word of God or the gospel. His death is not "limited", except in your own perverted mind. He died for the sins of the whole world. In fact, YOU are the one who teaches that the death of Jesus is "limited". YOU claim that He only died for the "elect", and not for the sins of the whole world.

The gospel is simple and not convoluted, as you teach it.

Jesus died for all sins, of all men. The sin issue was settled "once for all" at the cross.

"But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God" Heb 10:12

"And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world." 1 John 2:2

"For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God." Rom 6:10

He was raised for our justification.

"and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins."

"It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification. Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" Rom 4:24-5:1

"Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgmentcame to ALL men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to ALL men, resulting in justification of life."

God's word could not be more clear - ALL sins of ALL men were propitiated at the cross, when Jesus shed His blood, so that the justification of life comes to ALL men. And it is imputed to ALL "who believe in Him". His death was NOT "limited" for any sin or for any man. He died for all.

It is not the body that gives life, but the Spirit.

"God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”" John 4:24

"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life." John 6:63

"...for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life." 2 Cor 3:6

"And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness." Rom 8:10

"But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you." Rom 8:11




"For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life."

Again, you fail to comprehend what you read. ALL men were His enemies, not just Calvinists. Calvinists are now just enemies of the cross, for they (YOU) claim that His death was "limited" to only the "elect". You deny that Jesus died for ALL sins of ALL men, thus denying the Gospel that saves those "who believe in Him".

ALL men are reconciled unto God by His death and therefore the justification of life comes to all men. Those "who believe in Him" receive His life, by the Spirit who comes to dwell in them. Salvation is the life of God dwelling in those who have believed the Gospel.

"Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you." Rom 8:9-11

Neither His death, nor His resurrection are "limited" to any man. Yet, the Spirit is given ONLY to those "who believe in Him". ONLY those who have received the Spirit have His life.

"He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life." 1 John 5:12

ONLY those who have believed the Gospel have received His life. Salvation is receiving His life, by the Spirit that dwells in them, which they received AFTER having heard and then believing what they heard, concerning the Son of God.

"In Him you also trusted, AFTER you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise".

The gospel is the power of God FOR salvation.

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes" Rom 1:16


Not what Paul said. Paul is explaining HOW those "who believe" are saved (by His life). In order for men TO BE saved by His life, they must have been first reconciled by His death. The reconciliation is when Christ died for ALL sins of ALL men, so that ALL men are justified to receive His life AFTER they believe the Gospel.

So we know both the benefits of Christs death and life are limited. Those He died for are reconciled to God by His death, and shall be saved [made alive] by His Life. His Life is comunicated to them via His resurrection 1 Pet 1:3

³ Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

 

[beloved57]

Amen Brother, these Particular enemies Rom. 5:10 that Christ died for, it's guaranteed that they shall be saved [or made alive spiritually] by His Life.
For the quickening, or Life Giving Spirit in 1 Cor. 15:45, is the same Life they shall be saved by in Rom. 5:10; because right from the beginning they
were chosen to Salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the Truth 2 Thess. 2:13.

So in other words, this "package deal" cannot apply to all mankind without exception, because we know that many have not been saved by Christ's Life,
but have been appointed to have their part in the the second death Rev. 21:8.

Exactly Sister. Eph 2:1,5

And you hath he quickened[made alive], who were dead in trespasses and sins;

⁵ Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened[made alive] us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

As you can see here saved here is having been made alive. This I believe coincides with 1 Pet 1:3

 

[OZOS]

So we know both the benefits of Christs death and life are limited.

No, He died for ALL men and was raised to bring justification of life to ALL men who believe.

Those He died for are reconciled to God by His death

Correct. He died for ALL men, even those who do not believe it.

and shall be saved [made alive] by His Life.

Those "who believe".

His Life is comunicated to them via His resurrection

No, His life is given to those who believe the Gospel that He died for our sins, was buried, and raised from the dead.

³ Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Again, both Peter and Paul affirm that the resurrection brings the hope of eternal life to all who believe. ALL who believe receive His life. Without His death and resurrection no man would be justified to receive His life. They are saved BY His life when they believe the gospel.

 

[beloved57]

No, He died for ALL men and was raised to bring justification of life to ALL men who believe. Correct. He died for ALL men, even those who do not believe it. Those "who believe". No, His life is given to those who believe the Gospel that He died for our sins, was buried, and raised from the dead.



Again, both Peter and Paul affirm that the resurrection brings the hope of eternal life to all who believe. ALL who believe receive His life. Without His death and resurrection no man would be justified to receive His life. They are saved BY His life when they believe the gospel.

He died only for all who are # 1 Reconciled to God by His Death [thats legal salvation] and # 2 those who are saved by His Life, [which is Spiritual, experiential Salvation]. These are effects, consequences of His Death and Resurrection. So anyone who will be lost in their sins, and go into the second death, Its impossible for Christ to have died and rose again for them !

 

[Hilltrot]

This

1 Pet 1:3

³ Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

does not say

So we know both the benefits of Christs death and life are limited. Those He died for are reconciled to God by His death, and shall be saved [made alive] by His Life. His Life is comunicated to them via His resurrection

I suggest

https://freereadingprogram.com/

 

[beloved57]

This



does not say



I suggest

https://freereadingprogram.com/

Are you denying or ignoring what the scripture said I quoted ?

 

[Hilltrot]

Are you denying or ignoring what the scripture said I quoted ?

I really, really, really suggest https://freereadingprogram.com/

that is, unless you are just playacting illiteracy.

 

[beloved57]

I really, really, really suggest https://freereadingprogram.com/

that is, unless you are just playacting illiteracy.

Lol. dont have time for this !

 

[OZOS]

He died only for all who are # 1 Reconciled to God by His Death [thats legal salvation] and # 2 those who are saved by His Life, [which is Spiritual, experiential Salvation].

LOL, sorry, but no such thing as TWO salvations. However, seeing that Calvin taught a false Jesus with two natures, two wills, and two minds, it's consistent for you to teach two salvations. :loser: :chuckle:

 

[beloved57]

LOL, sorry, but no such thing as TWO salvations. However, seeing that Calvin taught a false Jesus with two natures, two wills, and two minds, it's consistent for you to teach two salvations. :loser: :chuckle:

Ok. Whats the promise made to them who were reconciled to God, by Christs death, when they were enemies ? Rom 5:10

¹⁰ For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

[OZOS]

Ok. Whats the promise made to them who were reconciled to God, by Christs death, when they were enemies ? Rom 5:10

¹⁰ For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Again, you fail to understand terms. The word "reconciled" καταλλάσσω is an accounting term. God was propitiated and reconciled to man by the death of His Son. Man had a debt He could not pay, and Jesus paid a debt He did not owe. The sin issue was finished at the cross. No more debt owed. ALL men were reconciled to God. However, all men are still dead, until they receive His life. In order to receive His life, man must accept the reconciliation. In other words, God removed the debt from his ledger, now each man must accept the debt paid "be reconciled to God" by believing in Christ's once for all sacrifice for their sin.

Here is what the apostle Paul says about this reconciliation.

"Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God." 2 Cor 5:18-20

There is no reason for Paul to implore anyone to do what they have no choice not to do. Every individual man is implored to "be reconciled", that is to accept Christ's payment for their debt. In doing so, then they will receive His life, and it is His life that saves them, not having the debt paid. They are not saved by His death, but by His life. Not everyone chooses to accept the reconciliation, so they remain dead, never to have His life.