ECT Kenosis

0scar

New member
In this threath I will discuss only Kenosis

”The verb ‘to empty’ is used elsewhere in the Pauline Epistles four times (Romans 4:14; 1 Corinthians 1:17; 1 Corinthians 9:15), and in each instance it is used in the sense of ‘to bring to nothing,’ ‘to make worthless,’ or ‘to empty of significance.’

"For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect" The faith is literally emptied out of all it value, and became of no efect at all.

"For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect". The cross of Christ should literally made emty (lost all) of any value or efect.

"But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void".

Kenosis means a state where it ends with no contein at all. Emtying (kenosis) a container until nothing at all is in it.
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
You forgot Philippians 2:7

What did he empty himself of?

Philippians 2:5-12

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
 

Lazy afternoon

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Christ emptyied of being equal to God.
Christ emptyed of being in the form of God.

No.

Christ emptied himself of the things of man by his obeying His Fathers Word to the death of Himself TWICE.

Once before His anointing to minister and finally to go to the cross.

LA
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
Christ emptyied of being equal to God.
Christ emptyed of being in the form of God.

As the son of God, he would have had rights and privileges in his Father's house, that he could have used and abused, much like the prodigal son did in the parable of the forgiving father. Nor did he choose to be the grumpy son who remained behind and felt self pity for having to take on responsiblity,

However, instead of self centered service to himself, he emptied himself of that and chose to serve.

He chose to obey his Father, no matter what the cost to his status, pride, ego, self esteem, or whatever, yet did so with joy. Hebrews 12:2

He humbled himself to his Father and obeyed the Father, he did not do his own will, but the Father's.
 

0scar

New member
No.

Christ emptied himself of the things of man by his obeying His Fathers Word to the death of Himself TWICE.

Once before His anointing to minister and finally to go to the cross.

LA

6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,

7 but emptied himself,

taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
 

0scar

New member
As the son of God, he would have had rights and privileges in his Father's house, that he could have used and abused, much like the prodigal son did in the parable of the forgiving father. Nor did he choose to be the grumpy son who remained behind and felt self pity for having to take on responsiblity,

However, instead of self centered service to himself, he emptied himself of that and chose to serve.

He chose to obey his Father, no matter what the cost to his status, pride, ego, self esteem, or whatever, yet did so with joy. Hebrews 12:2

He humbled himself to his Father and obeyed the Father, he did not do his own will, but the Father's.

good try to denay paul kenosis, but this is paul teaching.
before kenosis
kenosis
after kenosis

6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,

7 but emptied himself,

taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
 

intojoy

BANNED
Banned
THE MEANING OF KENOSIS

By A Fruchtenbaum

In dealing with the deity of the Messiah, Philippians 2:5-11 should be discussed. This passage deals with something theologians call “kenosis.” This term is used because the Greek word that is found in one of these verses is a word from which kenosis originates. It is a word that means “to empty oneself,” “to empty,” or “to evacuate.” Some kind of “emptying” took place at the time that the Son became incarnate. Some have taught that what Yeshua emptied Himself of, what He gave up when He became a man, was being God. If it were possible for someone to give up being God, then that person was not God to begin with. Does this passage teach that Jesus gave up His deity while He was on earth, so that He wasn't God? Or is it trying to teach something else? These questions can be answered by a study of the text.

In this passage, verse 5 is a transitional statement between what was being said in verses 1-4 and what is about to be said in verses 6-11. Verse 5 reads: Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus. This is in the present tense, and Paul is saying, “Keep on minding” and “Keep on having the mind of the Messiah.” The Messiah is to be imitated in the sense that there should be a habitual, daily direction of the mind to the distinctive virtue of the likeness of the Messiah.

The first part of verse 6 emphasizes His pre existence when it says: who, existing in the form of God. The way He has always existed in eternity past is in the form of God. This has been a continous, eternal existence. Yeshua has had a previous existence in the form of God before He became a man. To exist in the form of God means to be God Himself.

Indeed, in the second part of verse 6, His deity is clearly taught: counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped. While the first part of verse 6 teaches the pre existence of Jesus, the second part of the verse teaches His equality with God. He was existing in a form that naturally means being an equal with God. To be an equal with God means to be God. The mind of the Messiah was exercised in such a way that He did not consider His exalted God equal existence a warrant for seizing and grasping the glory for Himself; the glory that comes with the fact of being God. In other words, He did not count equality with God as something to be used selfishly for His own enrichment. He was willing to exist in another form other than the form of God.

What that form was is brought out in verse 7, where the Incarnation of the Messiah is taught: but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men. There are two things to notice in this verse. First, what this verse does not say concerning the act of self emptying. The Messiah did not empty Himself of the form of God, nor did He exchange the form of God for the likeness of men. The concept is not “to give up,” rather, it is “to add to.” The statement of the Greek text emptied himself is in itself an incomplete thought. What follows next in the sentence is describing the nature of His Humiliation in that He took upon Himself the form of a servant and was made in the likeness of men. The form of a servant was not an exchange of the form of God, not an exchange of being equal with God, but in addition to. The picture is that He added to His divine form; He took upon Himself the addition of humanity.

Secondly, what did He empty Himself of, then, if He did not empty Himself of the form of God or equality with God? The answer is that He emptied Himself of the right to have the independent use of those ten divine attributes that were discussed earlier in this manuscript. As God, He had the perfect right to independently use those attributes, but He would no longer use them except in accordance with the will of God the Father.

That is why the writer says that He not only took upon Himself the likeness of men, but specifically He took upon Himself the form of a servant, the servant role. Of course, a servant means someone who has a lord whom he obeys. That is the picture of what He emptied Himself; He emptied Himself of the independent right to use His divine attributes. He now became an earthly servant of God the Father. He would use His attributes only in accordance with the will of God the Father. He would not use His omnipotence unless God the Father willed it. He would not use His omniscience unless God the Father willed it. Consequently , there were things Jesus did not know in His humanity. For example, He did not know when He was coming back. The reason He did not know this is because He did not use the attribute of omniscience; it was not God the Father's will for Him to do so. When Yeshua became a man, He did not become less than God. Rather, by becoming a man, He took on humanity in addition to His divinity.

Verse 8 describes His Crucifixion: and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death, yea, the death of the cross. The condition of Jesus beheld by man is: in fashion as a man. When humankind saw Yeshua, they did not see Him in a divine essence; they saw Him as a human being. He was recognized by all to be a man. This was part of His Humiliation, part of His obedience to God the Father. He emptied Himself of His omnipotence in that He did not use His omnipotence to keep people from putting Him to death. Because the Son was willing to give up existing only in the form of God–not in exchange of existing in the form of God, but in addition to that form–He took on the form of a man.

Because He was willing to empty Himself in that way, there is a promise of His Exaltation in verses 9-11: Wherefore also God highly exalted him, and gave unto him the name which is above every name; that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven and things on earth and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. As a result, He was exalted when He ascended into Heaven. In verse 9, He was raised from the dead to unusual dignity and power. In verse 10, there is the recognition of His universal sovereignty. And in verse 11, there will eventually be universal homage to the Messiah as Lord. What does the kenosis mean? First, it does not mean that He divested Himself of the form of deity. Secondly, it does mean that He laid aside the independent exercise of His divine attributes by which the form of God expresses itself. Instead, He took on and assumed human form, flesh, and nature by means of the Incarnation and the Virgin Birth. The self emptying brought about a change of status from the position of God to the position of a servant. In the exchange, He did not divest Himself of or give up His deity. In His human form, He retained all the attributes of His deity, but He never manifested His deity apart from the will of the Father. Thus, even in His earthly sojourn as a man, He was still God.
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
good try to denay paul kenosis, but this is paul teaching.
before kenosis
kenosis
after kenosis

6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,

7 but emptied himself,

taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.

Could you restate the following?

good try to denay paul kenosis,

Not sure what "denay" means.

and what is "paul"? or should I ask, what is "paul kenosis"?

You should read the context before drawing conclusions
 

0scar

New member
THE MEANING OF KENOSIS

By A Fruchtenbaum

In dealing with the deity of the Messiah, Philippians 2:5-11 should be discussed. Blah blah blah... dog drops... heresy.

Christians have been denaying what Paul clearly teach and made all kind of heretic construcions and speeches to denay what it is revealed by the Holy Spirit in the Word of God.

Christ was in the from of God; he did empty himself and ended in the form of servant (man)
Christ was equal to God; he emty himself and ended in likeness of men.

PERIOD.
 

Bright Raven

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Jesus is the Living Word of God.

John 1:1 King James Version (KJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

PERIOD.
 

0scar

New member
Christ emptyied of being equal to God.
Christ emptyed of being in the form of God.

this is what the Word of God declare. it is not any personal interpretation but plain biblical text

Christ did never empty of being God. He empty only of being in the form of God, he only empty of being equal to God. Christ did never empty of being what and who he is: God.
 

Volts

New member
When Phil. 2:7 says that Jesus emptied Himself, this means that Jesus gave up His privileges. It does not mean He gave up His deity or any of His divine attributes. He took a humble position by taking the form of a servant. Jesus as a man did not grow up in a rich family. He did not live in a palace. He did not exercise His will independently from the Father. He did not become a Roman emperor.
 

0scar

New member
When Phil. 2:7 says that Jesus emptied Himself, this means that Jesus gave up His privileges. It does not mean He gave up His deity or any of His divine attributes. He took a humble position by taking the form of a servant. Jesus as a man did not grow up in a rich family. He did not live in a palace. He did not exercise His will independently from the Father. He did not become a Roman emperor.

That is in your twisted interpretation tryinh to denaay the Kenosis teach by Paul, revealed to him by the Holy Spirit aand included in the Word of God, the Bible

the humbling hapens AFTER the kenosis
Christ did not give away his deity, did not give away being who he is: God
Christ did away being in the form of God, in equaality to God. My personal interpretation is that it is refering to the omnis, which you wwrongly believe are atributes of God, and are simply the form of God
 
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