ECT John 1:14

nikolai_42

Well-known member
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 1:14

Straightforward questions :

1. What is the glory of the Son?
2. What is meant by the glory as of the only begotten?
3. Is the Glory of the Father and the Glory of the Son the same or different?
4. (Much like #3) When scripture speaks of "The Glory of God" do you understand it to be concurrent with "The Glory of the Son", or both "The Glory of the Son and of the Father"?
5. Is there any sense in which the Son shares the glory of the Father (assuming you answer "different (in some way)" to #3?
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself with the glory which I had with You before the world was. (John 17:5 NKJV)

And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one... (John 17:22 NKJV)
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
It's the same Glory of the ONE God. Just as Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God.

1 Corinthians 1:24
But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
 

Dan Emanuel

Active member
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 1:14

Straightforward questions :

1. What is the glory of the Son?...
It refers to this:
Matthew 17:2 KJV, Mark 9:2-3 KJV, Luke 9:29-31 KJV (2 Peter 1:16-18 KJV)
...2. What is meant by the glory as of the only begotten?
3. Is the Glory of the Father and the Glory of the Son the same or different?
4. (Much like #3) When scripture speaks of "The Glory of God" do you understand it to be concurrent with "The Glory of the Son", or both "The Glory of the Son and of the Father"?
5. Is there any sense in which the Son shares the glory of the Father (assuming you answer "different (in some way)" to #3?
Jesus is the Son of God.


DJ
1.0
 

God's Truth

New member
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 1:14

Straightforward questions :

1. What is the glory of the Son?
2. What is meant by the glory as of the only begotten?
3. Is the Glory of the Father and the Glory of the Son the same or different?
4. (Much like #3) When scripture speaks of "The Glory of God" do you understand it to be concurrent with "The Glory of the Son", or both "The Glory of the Son and of the Father"?
5. Is there any sense in which the Son shares the glory of the Father (assuming you answer "different (in some way)" to #3?

1. The glory of the Son is the honor of the Son.
2. The honor of the only begotten.
3. The glory of the Father and the Son is the same.
4. It is the same.
5. Same.
 

nikolai_42

Well-known member
I have only a few minutes now, but wanted to add something. It looks like one of the unanimous beliefs is that the glory of the Father and of the Son is one and the same. One of the threads I'm trying to follow here is man's response to God's glory. My assumption is that man's nature (i.e. his natural state) is universal - that is, that all unregenerate men will respond the same way at all times to the glory of God.

When you read of several encounters with God in the OT, you find some rather striking resemblances to man's responses to God and His glory :

1. Jacob - after wrestling with God and seeing Him :

And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
Genesis 32:30

2. Moses - at the burning bush (this is probably the least convincing in terms of following the character of the other confessions):

Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.
Exodus 3:6

3. The Israelites - after seeing the thunderings and lightning etc... in the mountain where God was giving Moses the Commandments :

And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.
Exodus 20:19

4. Job - after being confronted by God directly :

I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

Job 42:5-6

And this was the same man of whom God went on to say that he had spoken what was right about God.

5. Isaiah - his encounter with the Almighty in a vision that changed him forever :

Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.
Isaiah 6:5

Each of these (some more strongly than others) underscores a certain response the glory of God has upon the one in His presence. Universally, it seems to be one of humbling to the point of fearing for one's life because of the holiness of God.

Now...admittedly a smaller sample size to draw from, but the NT. Jesus transfigures Himself before the 3 disciples and this Peter's response :

Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.

Matthew 17:4-6

BEGIN EDIT : The response to the glory of the Transfigured Christ is not the same as the response to the voice of the Father. Markedly so. "It is good for us to be here" is quite different from "...were sore afraid.". And given the responses of men in the OT to the presence of God, is it really a stretch to say that the two glories are different in some way? (END EDIT)

The only other thing I can think of offhand that directly shows this is when John sees Jesus "in the Spirit on the Lord's Day"

And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Revelation 1:17

This certainly seems to fall more in line with what the OT examples display, but it also isn't fully clear as to the reason. He doesn't really comment on it. Having said that, falling at His feet "as dead" does seem to imply unutterable glory as by holiness....

So does that mean, then, that the Transfiguration is the revelation of "lesser" glory per John 17?

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
John 17:5
 
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