Jesus Was Not God

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Squeaky

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Here are some more notes from my collection. A brother poster this about ten year ago on TOL:

What does the missionary book of the early church say about Jesus? One could say it would be a safe place to see how the apostolic Christians understood Him. A good place to turn. The book of Acts present us with a clear and unified testimony of the apostles’ witness. It is significant that nowhere in Acts do the apostles say that believing that Jesus is Jehovah, the Lord God, is an essential requirement for salvation. Peter, who had been given the keys to the kingdom, called Jesus "a man accredited to you by God" (Acts 2:22).

The Bible states that after his sermon on the day of Pentecost about 3000 persons were saved. If Peter thought it was essential to believe that Jesus was Almighty God he did not say so in his first sermon. If it is necessary to believe in the Trinity to enter the Kingdom of God then Peter forgot to mention this essential fact on this definitive day. This proves it's not necessary to believe that Christ is God in order to be saved.

When preaching to these Jews Peter presents a Messiah who is the descendent of King David (v.30). He is one who would have rotted and decayed in the grave like any other man had not God raised him up again (v.24-32). Because God authenticated "this Jesus" by resurrecting him (thus reversing the national verdict accusing him of blasphemy, that is, claiming to be God's Messiah), Jesus is now "exulted to the right hand of God" (v. 33). God has thus sealed "this Jesus whom you crucified" (v.36) and declared him as "Lord and Messiah" to the nation of Israel and "for all who are far off" (the Gentiles as well, v.39). The proof of his Messiahship is that the Holy Spirit has been poured out. Every Jew believed that the dawning of the new Messianic age would usher in a mighty outpouring of God Spirit. This Jewish audience knew that Peter statements meant that the God of their fathers, Jehovah, had raise Jesus in fulfillment of the Old Testament prophecies concerning the Christ. Their understanding that "Jesus is Lord" was governed by their understanding of the messianic fulfillment of Psalms 110 as Peter quotes it in Acts here.

No unitary monotheistic Jew would have taken Peter statements in Acts 2 to mean that Messiah was Jehovah God. It must be interpreted with Hebrew eyes this same pattern is followed throughout Acts.

In the next chapter, Peter calls Jesus anything but the Lord God. Jesus is called God’s "servant" twice (Acts 3:13, 26); God's "Christ" (v. 18:20); "the Prince of life" (a title nowhere in the Bible applied to God, v.15); the "prophets" whom Moses predicted (v.22,23). In fact, Peter is very careful not to confuse the identity of the Lord God and this Jesus who is the Lord Messiah. Note verse 13 where Peter says, "The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers as glorified his servant Jesus, the one whom you delivered up, and disowned in the presence of pilate, when he had decided to release him." This same expression "The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob" appears in Exodus 3:15 where God tells Moses to announce to the people that "The LORD [YHWH], the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, has sent me to you" (Ex 3:15). The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob equals the LORD (Jehovah). Here in Acts 3:13 it is "The God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, the God of our fathers" who has now "glorified his servant Jesus."

Is Jesus then the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, the God of our fathers? Absolutely not! This would make complete nonsense of the text. The God of Abraham glorified who? Himself? No:... His servant Jesus. Jesus is not the God of Abraham. Jesus is not Jehovah, the LORD. He is God's anointed one, God's servant.

In Acts 10 the same distinction appears again. Peter says, "You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how he went about doing good, and healing all who were oppressed by the devil; for God was with him" (v. 38). Who anointed Jesus? God anointed Jesus of Nazareth. And the whole purpose of anointing somebody is so they might receive the power and ability to fulfill their commission. If I said, "The king anointed the prince" you would not possibly think the prince was the king. In the same way Jesus is the "Prince of life" (Acts 3:15) whom God anointed. Jesus applied in Messianic prophecy of Isaiah 61 to himself when he read these words in the synagogue after his baptism by John: "The spirit of the Lord God is upon me, because the LORD [Jehovah] has anointed me" (v.61; Luke 4:16-21). The person who is anointed is not the LORD Jehovah. God does not need to anoint God! Jehovah God anoints Jesus the Messiah. That is what Jesus claims for himself, and what Peter announces time and again.

I do not have the time nor the space here to go through every chapter in the book of Acts to prove this. But I encourage you to do to this for yourself. Take a colored marker, and you may well be surprised at the frequency and consistency in this topic. What was the message that Paul preach after his dramatic conversion experience? That Jesus is Jehovah God? Of course not, for his message was consistent with the rest of the apostles’ testimony: "Immediately he began to proclaim Jesus in the synagogue, saying, ‘He is the son of God’" (Acts 19:20). In fact, Paul kept increasing in strength "and confounding the Jews who lived at Damascus site proving that this Jesus is the Messiah" (v.22). To be the son of God is to be the Messiah: Same message! In fact, while you're at it, take the same colored marker and go through the rest of the New Testament. You'll be amazed at the distinction the Scriptures make between God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. (You could try 1Cor. 1:3; 8:6; 2 Cor. 1:2; Phil. 1:2; 4:20; 1 Thess. 1:1; 3:13; 2 Thess. 1:2; 2:16; 1 Tim. 1:2; 2Tim. 1:2; Titus 1:4; Gal. 1:3.)

In other words, there is no person the whole book of Acts or any other New Testament book that requires you to believe that Jesus is the Lord God, Jehovah, in order to enter the Kingdom. In all the books of Acts there is no preaching of the Trinity. Yet in Acts thousands were saved according to the scriptural record. This should be conclusive proof that the Trinity was not part of early apostolic doctrine.

The confession "Jesus is Lord" must be understood in its Jewish environment and historical time frame. Unfortunately, we have seen, through the pressure of culture and politics, the persona of Jesus has been reshaped into one neither he or his apostles would recognize.

I said
So true. I have had that Isaiah 9 thrown at me many times. So I just pacify them because I don't think they could understand. I have never thought that I Isaiah was talking about Jesus. Everytime a religious woman was pregnant they all said the same thing like Isaiah 9.
But if they would read verse 8 they would see who it is talking about.

[Isa 8:1-3
1 Moreover the LORD said unto me, Take thee a great roll, and write in it with a man's pen concerning Mahershalalhashbaz.
2 And I took unto me faithful witnesses to record, Uriah the priest, and Zechariah the son of Jeberechiah.
3 And I went unto the prophetess; and she conceived, and bare a son. Then said the LORD to me, Call his name Mahershalalhashbaz.

[Isa 9:6
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
 

Squeaky

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Cool. the Squeakster says this isn't about the messiah....

I said
I don't think that verse is. Its about a prophetess son.

3 And I went unto the prophetess; and she conceived, and bare a son. Then said the LORD to me, Call his name Mahershalalhashbaz.

I will never let the old testament override the new testament. That is a good way to fall from grace.
 

meshak

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Here are some more notes from my collection. A brother poster this about ten year ago on TOL:

What does the missionary book of the early church say about Jesus? One could say it would be a safe place to see how the apostolic Christians understood Him. A good place to turn. The book of Acts present us with a clear and unified testimony of the apostles’ witness. It is significant that nowhere in Acts do the apostles say that believing that Jesus is Jehovah, the Lord God, is an essential requirement for salvation. Peter, who had been given the keys to the kingdom, called Jesus "a man accredited to you by God" (Acts 2:22).

The Bible states that after his sermon on the day of Pentecost about 3000 persons were saved. If Peter thought it was essential to believe that Jesus was Almighty God he did not say so in his first sermon. If it is necessary to believe in the Trinity to enter the Kingdom of God then Peter forgot to mention this essential fact on this definitive day. This proves it's not necessary to believe that Christ is God in order to be saved.

When preaching to these Jews Peter presents a Messiah who is the descendent of King David (v.30). He is one who would have rotted and decayed in the grave like any other man had not God raised him up again (v.24-32). Because God authenticated "this Jesus" by resurrecting him (thus reversing the national verdict accusing him of blasphemy, that is, claiming to be God's Messiah), Jesus is now "exulted to the right hand of God" (v. 33). God has thus sealed "this Jesus whom you crucified" (v.36) and declared him as "Lord and Messiah" to the nation of Israel and "for all who are far off" (the Gentiles as well, v.39). The proof of his Messiahship is that the Holy Spirit has been poured out. Every Jew believed that the dawning of the new Messianic age would usher in a mighty outpouring of God Spirit. This Jewish audience knew that Peter statements meant that the God of their fathers, Jehovah, had raise Jesus in fulfillment of the Old Testament prophecies concerning the Christ. Their understanding that "Jesus is Lord" was governed by their understanding of the messianic fulfillment of Psalms 110 as Peter quotes it in Acts here.

No unitary monotheistic Jew would have taken Peter statements in Acts 2 to mean that Messiah was Jehovah God. It must be interpreted with Hebrew eyes this same pattern is followed throughout Acts.

In the next chapter, Peter calls Jesus anything but the Lord God. Jesus is called God’s "servant" twice (Acts 3:13, 26); God's "Christ" (v. 18:20); "the Prince of life" (a title nowhere in the Bible applied to God, v.15); the "prophets" whom Moses predicted (v.22,23). In fact, Peter is very careful not to confuse the identity of the Lord God and this Jesus who is the Lord Messiah. Note verse 13 where Peter says, "The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers as glorified his servant Jesus, the one whom you delivered up, and disowned in the presence of pilate, when he had decided to release him." This same expression "The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob" appears in Exodus 3:15 where God tells Moses to announce to the people that "The LORD [YHWH], the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, has sent me to you" (Ex 3:15). The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob equals the LORD (Jehovah). Here in Acts 3:13 it is "The God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, the God of our fathers" who has now "glorified his servant Jesus."

Is Jesus then the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, the God of our fathers? Absolutely not! This would make complete nonsense of the text. The God of Abraham glorified who? Himself? No:... His servant Jesus. Jesus is not the God of Abraham. Jesus is not Jehovah, the LORD. He is God's anointed one, God's servant.

In Acts 10 the same distinction appears again. Peter says, "You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how he went about doing good, and healing all who were oppressed by the devil; for God was with him" (v. 38). Who anointed Jesus? God anointed Jesus of Nazareth. And the whole purpose of anointing somebody is so they might receive the power and ability to fulfill their commission. If I said, "The king anointed the prince" you would not possibly think the prince was the king. In the same way Jesus is the "Prince of life" (Acts 3:15) whom God anointed. Jesus applied in Messianic prophecy of Isaiah 61 to himself when he read these words in the synagogue after his baptism by John: "The spirit of the Lord God is upon me, because the LORD [Jehovah] has anointed me" (v.61; Luke 4:16-21). The person who is anointed is not the LORD Jehovah. God does not need to anoint God! Jehovah God anoints Jesus the Messiah. That is what Jesus claims for himself, and what Peter announces time and again.

I do not have the time nor the space here to go through every chapter in the book of Acts to prove this. But I encourage you to do to this for yourself. Take a colored marker, and you may well be surprised at the frequency and consistency in this topic. What was the message that Paul preach after his dramatic conversion experience? That Jesus is Jehovah God? Of course not, for his message was consistent with the rest of the apostles’ testimony: "Immediately he began to proclaim Jesus in the synagogue, saying, ‘He is the son of God’" (Acts 19:20). In fact, Paul kept increasing in strength "and confounding the Jews who lived at Damascus site proving that this Jesus is the Messiah" (v.22). To be the son of God is to be the Messiah: Same message! In fact, while you're at it, take the same colored marker and go through the rest of the New Testament. You'll be amazed at the distinction the Scriptures make between God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. (You could try 1Cor. 1:3; 8:6; 2 Cor. 1:2; Phil. 1:2; 4:20; 1 Thess. 1:1; 3:13; 2 Thess. 1:2; 2:16; 1 Tim. 1:2; 2Tim. 1:2; Titus 1:4; Gal. 1:3.)

In other words, there is no person the whole book of Acts or any other New Testament book that requires you to believe that Jesus is the Lord God, Jehovah, in order to enter the Kingdom. In all the books of Acts there is no preaching of the Trinity. Yet in Acts thousands were saved according to the scriptural record. This should be conclusive proof that the Trinity was not part of early apostolic doctrine.

The confession "Jesus is Lord" must be understood in its Jewish environment and historical time frame. Unfortunately, we have seen, through the pressure of culture and politics, the persona of Jesus has been reshaped into one neither he or his apostles would recognize.

Excellent post, brother:)
 

Squeaky

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I said


Isa 9-6
I seen Billy Grahames son preach on this.
He gave a good understanding. Like it says the government will be upon His shoulders. That hasnt happened yet.
Upon His government and peace there will be no end. That hasnt happened yet.
And over His kingdom. He hasnt got a kingdom yet.
This is a prophesy of Jesus Christs second coming. Which hasnt happened yet.
 

keypurr

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I said


Isa 9-6
I seen Billy Grahames son preach on this.
He gave a good understanding. Like it says the government will be upon His shoulders. That hasnt happened yet.
Upon His government and peace there will be no end. That hasnt happened yet.
And over His kingdom. He hasnt got a kingdom yet.
This is a prophesy of Jesus Christs second coming. Which hasnt happened yet.

Franklin is not like his Father.
And, I disagree with both of them.


Peace
 

Squeaky

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Franklin is not like his Father.
And, I disagree with both of them.


Peace

I said
I know. I just don't like to tell people they can fall from grace by holding something from the old testament over the new testament.

[Gal 5:1-4
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who [attempt to] be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Jesus said the Father is the only true God. And I believe that. But when they try to use a verse from the old testament to override that with Isaiah 9 I just feel sorry for them.

[Jhn 17:1-3
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
 
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