CherubRam
New member
Passover begins Friday evening at sundown. That is the start of that holiday, the 14th.
Jesus' Return
- Thread starter WatchmanOnTheWall
- Start date
Passover begins Friday evening at sundown. That is the start of that holiday, the 14th.
genuineoriginal
New member
I think that is pretty close, but believe that the harvest is completed prior to God's Wrath on the nations.
The Christians who are still alive are not hiding in rocks and dens during God's Wrath.
It is the non-Christians that are hiding in rocks and dens (Revelation 6:15)
Does the 14th always fall on Friday?
CherubRam
New member
Using the the Biblical Calendar it was always on Friday the 14th at sundown.
And the 15th was always on the weekly Sabbath, right?
And July 4th always falls on what day of the week?
WatchmanOnTheWall
New member
I believe the harvest of Souls refers to those who will resurrect rather than those who will just die, the difference is those who receive their new resurrected bodies and those that don't resurrect; but just go to heaven or hell. I also believe that the two groups of resurrectees are the 144,000 before the 1000 year reign and the great multitude after the 1000 years:
Revelation 20:5
(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
I believe the fist group of 144,000 make up Jesus' government who will rule during the 1000 year reign:
Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
Some of those who survive the tribulation underground will be Christians as it doesn't make sense that they will all be non-Christians, I agree that most will be non-Christians but some will be believers who happen to go into hiding and some will convert while hiding, as this verse alludes to:
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
The rest of the survivors under ground will eventually emerge and repopulate the Earth during the 1000 year reign, because the resurrected humans can't have children:
Matthew 22:30
At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.
The re-population of Earth in the 1000 year reign is mentioned in this verse:
Isaiah 65:20
"Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed.
I believe the verses below point to a moment during in the tribulation when God begins to seal the 144,000 who will resurrect at the last trump:
Revelation 7:3-4
"Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God." 4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
Revelation 14:8-13
8 A second angel followed and said, “ ‘Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great,’a which made all the nations drink the maddening wine of her adulteries.”9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulphur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” 12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus. 13 Then I heard a voice from heaven say, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from NOW on.” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them.”
Babylon is Jerusalem:
Revelation 11:8
Their bodies will lie in the public square of the GREAT CITY--which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt--where also their Lord was crucified.
Revelation 17:18
The woman you saw is the GREAT CITY that rules over the kings of the earth."
Revelation 17:4-5
4The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. 5The name written on her forehead was a mystery:
BABYLON THE GREAT
THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES
AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
Jerusalem falls when the sacrifices are stopped 1335 days before Jesus returns:
Daniel 12:11
“From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. 12 Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.
I believe it is possibly during this 1335 days (minus the last 5 days from Atonement to Tabernacles), that the seal of God is given to the 144,000 and that the first resurrection of these 144,000 happens at the last trump (the day of Atonement):
1 Corinthians 15:51-52
51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
Any of the 144,000 who have died will rise first and then any of the 144,000 still alive (underground or otherwise) will then also rise; All on the day of Atonement - the Great and Terrible Day.
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genuineoriginal
New member
The 144,000 are from the 12 tribes of the children of Israel and include no Gentiles in that number (Mormons are also Gentiles despite their false claims and are not part of the 144,000).
The tribulation began in the year 66 CE and has not ended yet. The tribulation is the exile of the children of Israel from the land of promise, also known as the Diaspora, and it will end when the House of the Lord (the Temple) is once more standing on Temple Mount in Jerusalem.
You are assuming more death than is mentioned in the Bible.
Most of the people of the nations are left alive and in pain at the end of the Wrath of God poured out on the nations before the 1000 years.
Revelation 16:10-11 10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain, 11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds. |
I see the verse has no mention of repopulation. The verse only mentions long life.
At the battle of Har Megiddo (Armageddon) the armies of the nations will be destroyed.
Zechariah 14:12 12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth. |
However, the people of the nations that were not part of those armies are spared to live during the 1000 years.
Zechariah 14:16 16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. |
The cities of the nations will be ruled over by the believers that were faithful to Jesus while waiting for His return.
Luke 19:16-19 16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds. 17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities. 18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds. 19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities. |
The sealing of the 144,000 happens after the end of the tribulation.
There is a mistake in the punctuation of Revelation 14:13. The verse should read: 'Then I heard a voice from heaven say, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord. Yes, from now on,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them.”'
Babylon is never Jerusalem.
Jerusalem is the city of promise in the land of promise.
Babylon is the city of exile during the time of exile.
Babylon always refers to the nations and never to Israel.
At this moment in time, Babylon refers to New York City, the location of the United Nations that rules over the kings of the earth.
WatchmanOnTheWall
New member
I think we would agree Revelation 11:8 is Jerusalem:
Revelation 11:8
Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified.
But Revelation 17:18
The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”
- is not specified. At the time John wrote this it could be argued he meant Rome as it did rule over the kings of the earth from a worldly point of view but from a spiritual point of view it could be Jerusalem as John was seeing into the future in his vision. Today Rome does not rule over the kings of the earth but Jerusalem does because kings or even governments don't control things, but money does. kings and governments rely on money. Jesus taught often about the dangers of money. Israel and it's capital Jerusalem is controlled by the richest banking dynasty on earth - The Rothschild's. They control half of all the worlds wealth and because of this banking dynasty Israel is fast becoming the most powerful nation on earth, just as the bible prophesies. (New York and the UN are practically owned by the Rothschild's as is the USA)
Jerusalem is Babylon, the woman, who is riding the beast, which is Satan's 'Empire'. Satan rules this earth still but will be defeated when Jesus returns. Jesus taught about the dangers of money and it was His second biggest teaching besides His coming Kingdom, which will be in Jerusalem. The battle over Jerusalem in the Endtimes is key to the war between good and evil. Satan deceives people into thinking its not because in any war deception is a key tactic.
Re- the 144,000 You need to watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGhGk9LYuUE