JESUS IS NOT YHWH

[1Mind1Spirit]

All that is going on, is a relatioinal exchange of thought, energy, will, intention, choice....that is as long as there is a conscious intelligence directing or determining anything anywhere at anytime - I don't think I've ever denied that an Infinite Intelligence that we call 'God' is at the very HEART of all that is, since nothing can exist on its own, independent from the First Source and Center of all, who is The Universal Father.

But while you bring up the element of 'chance' or 'randomness'....studies in physics shows that there are these elements existing within certain segments of space and time, no matter how well ordained or predetermined anything might be. I bring this up to show that there is an element of 'creative mystery' and 'randomness' of movement within the great cosmic matrix,...some 'unknowables' if you will. (therefore some aspects of reality may be conditional). This 'knowledge' is modified by free will as it acts within space, thru 'time' (involving potentials and they unfold and become actuals, etc.) But this gits into other fields, perhaps beyond the kin of this thread

Hell of a round about way to say......

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Rom 15:5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:
Rom 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Rom 15:7 Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us to the glory of God.

 

[KingdomRose]

Not everything's random. If there is a God, He is in charge (that's the same as not everything's random). What has He done, to this point?
If there is no God, then everything's random, and we're where we're at, because of chance.

I agree. I believe there is a God, and He is in charge, though He allows bad things because of a challenge by one of His formerly righteous angelic beings (who chose to turn against God). The rulership of Satan is drawing near to an end, as we can ascertain by studying the Bible.

I don't think that things in this universe are so difficult to understand or explain, as freelight feels they are. God would have certain standards, and He would have a real identity, and I believe that He does. He doesn't accept just anything that comes along. He has certain ways of doing things and certain requirements of the beings that have a relationship with Him. It's really not so jumbled up as freelight explains it.

 

[KingdomRose]

Empire of dirt

Very poignant. Is he somehow comparing himself to Christ? I don't quite get the point.

 

[KingdomRose]

Then there's this.....

I remember when this came out, along with "Ring of Fire," in the '50s. I liked the way they sounded. I didn't understand any of the emotions behind the songs. Now I know that he was already married when he began his affair with June Carter, and it was not legit. That's where walking the line and the ring of fire come in. Not a good thing to dump your wife and marry another woman. It's funny that he says, "I find it so easy to be true." Not really.

What is your point in posting these clips?

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Very poignant. Is he somehow comparing himself to Christ? I don't quite get the point.

I like to think he's pointing out our complete need for Christ.

We're all little Nebuchadnezzar's

 

[freelight]

Religious hoo haw.......

Religious hoo haw.......

I agree. I believe there is a God, and He is in charge, though He allows bad things because of a challenge by one of His formerly righteous angelic beings (who chose to turn against God). The rulership of Satan is drawing near to an end, as we can ascertain by studying the Bible.

I don't think that things in this universe are so difficult to understand or explain, as freelight feels they are. God would have certain standards, and He would have a real identity, and I believe that He does. He doesn't accept just anything that comes along. He has certain ways of doing things and certain requirements of the beings that have a relationship with Him. It's really not so jumbled up as freelight explains it.

Hi KR

Yes, reality is simple....it is what actually exists at the heart of all aspects or conditions of existence. My former commentary beyond the biblical stuff ( or 'fluff'), is purely philosophical, food for thought

No one can prove Jesus is YHWH, let alone if Jesus was an actual historical figure or myth, or some combination therein, with his story embellished more or less in various gospels written by various authors for different audiences.

On the face of it, biblically speaking....sure, a Unitarian Christology is wholly sound, logical, reasonable. A Trinitarian one is but a complex spin on the same foundation,....give them a brownie point for innovation......whoop dee doo.

At the end of the day, if you love Life and others as yourself (assuming you have genuine love, integrity and respect for yourself), you'll do well, here and hereafter (entertain any concept of the afterlife, resurrection or reincarnation that you like). All else is alphabet soup, words, concepts, opinions, beliefs, assumptions,speculation, commentary.

 

[patrick jane]

Hi KR

Yes, reality is simple....it is what actually exists at the heart of all aspects or conditions of existence. My former commentary beyond the biblical stuff ( or 'fluff'), is purely philosophical, food for thought

No one can prove Jesus is YHWH, let alone if Jesus was an actual historical figure or myth, or some combination therein, with his story embellished more or less in various gospels written by various authors for different audiences.

On the face of it, biblically speaking....sure a Unitarian Christology is wholly sound, logical, reasonable. A Trinitarian one is but a complex spin on the same foundation,....give them a brownie point for innovation......whoop dee doo.

At the end of the day, if you love Life and others as yourself (assuming you have genuine love, integrity and respect for yourself), you'll do well, here and hereafter (entertain any concept of the afterlife, resurrection or reincarnation that you like). All else is alphabet soup, words, concepts, opinions, beliefs, assumptions,speculation, commentary.

That borders on blasphemy "if Jesus was an actual historical figure" - there are plenty of other texts affirming the existence of Jesus besides the Bible, look it up on your own before roundly defrauding Jesus Christ.

 

[freelight]

That borders on blasphemy "if Jesus was an actual historical figure" - there are plenty of other texts affirming the existence of Jesus besides the Bible, look it up on your own before roundly defrauding Jesus Christ.

I have,....and many others scholars as well. All historical claims, accounts or assumptions are subject to debate.

 

[freelight]

Research on Jesus

Research on Jesus

Lee Strobel's 'The case for Christ'.

Have you read or considered Robert M Prices response to Lee's book? Honest objective research. Interview below -

 

[Patrick Cronin]

All you will ever get from these questions is human opinions regarding what others THINK these scripture texts mean. God's revelation of Himself to humanity is absolute unchangeable truth and so cannot be a matter of someone's opinion about the meaning of ancient biblical writings. Only the holy Spirit of Truth has the power to tell us that. Where then can we find that truth if not by each person trying to understand the Scriptures? The answer is simple: you have to go to those whom Jesus endowed with the Holy Spirit for that very purpose. These are the Apostles of Jesus and their successors till the end of time. Jesus told them: "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Advocate to be with you forever — the Spirit of truth. ... the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things and bring to your minds everything I have told you." . It was by means of the Holy Spirit of Truth that the Apostles were enabled to write the New testament Scriptures, and to interpret the meaning of the Old Testament Scriptures. This power is still enjoyed by the successors of the Apostles today, that is, the Pope, the successor of Peter, and the united leaders of the Catholic Church.

 

[freelight]

We would challenge that assumption..............

We would challenge that assumption..............

All you will ever get from these questions is human opinions regarding what others THINK these scripture texts mean.

Call it 'opinion' if you like, each soul can only use his own logic, reason, discernment and understanding about 'interpreting' any religious writing whatsoever, in any given context. Whether something is 'opinion' or 'truth' is still 'subjective' and points of view are conditional. Sometimes you're better off accepting the truth that you DONT KNOW. In fact, you dont even know what anything is. All you do is observe images and illusions in the objective world, and STILL...all is interpreted thru the perception of consciousness,....subjectivity. In a house or mirrors, your just a center of awareness looking at a passing light show. Note that in this world of relativity, there are also shadows that 'interplay' with the light.

God's revelation of Himself to humanity is absolute unchangeable truth and so cannot be a matter of someone's opinion about the meaning of ancient biblical writings.

This is an assumption, belief or opinion. While the Bible or any other religious book for that matter may be more or less inspired or useful,...there is no garantee or promise that a 'revelation' is 'absolutely unchanging', since after all....there is 'progressive revelation',....'learning', 'expansion of consciousness', and so on. If you believe a book, doctrine, dogma or religious institution is somehow 'absolute reality', you're assuming ALOT. By definition ....only DEITY is 'absolute', and is the one universal, infinite, all-pervading REALITY. - concepts, ideas, beliefs or images of this 'God' may be more or less imperfect.

Only the holy Spirit of Truth has the power to tell us that.

Yes, only the spirit of truth can communicate truth, but that spirit may speak and function in many different ways, and this infinite Spirit is not limited to, nor can it be contained within one religious system, cult or tradition.....claiming exclusive rights or privelges to its dispensation.

Where then can we find that truth if not by each person trying to understand the Scriptures? The answer is simple: you have to go to those whom Jesus endowed with the Holy Spirit for that very purpose. These are the Apostles of Jesus and their successors till the end of time. Jesus told them: "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Advocate to be with you forever — the Spirit of truth. ... the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things and bring to your minds everything I have told you." . It was by means of the Holy Spirit of Truth that the Apostles were enabled to write the New testament Scriptures, and to interpret the meaning of the Old Testament Scriptures. This power is still enjoyed by the successors of the Apostles today, that is, the Pope, the successor of Peter, and the united leaders of the Catholic Church.

This is only according to the belief of the RCC itself, and its dogmas and creeds it would spoon-feed you. You have no proof of apostolic succession apart from mere 'profession', (with some historical notes, legends and heresay) and in truth, anyone with actual anointing and authority from higher spiritual sources or powers, would have that 'unction' in spirit and truth, and the fruit of that would manifest itself, proving its own authenticity. I grant respect for various religious organizations and their priesthoods, but also recognize their limited dispensations, powers and profit. Hence I espouse and study universal science, wisdom and philosophy, the common thread of truth woven thru religion, philosophy and science....in all space and time, all dimensions. In this sense I'm truly 'catholic'...meaning UNIVERSAL

 

[KingdomRose]

I have,....and many others scholars as well. All historical claims, accounts or assumptions are subject to debate.

Yes, but so would be the existence of anyone that we personally haven't seen with our own eyes. Jesus' existence is accepted by even those that couldn't stand him.

Is there extra-biblical evidence that Jesus existed? How about TACITUS (Gaius Publius Cornelius Tacitus)? He was alive c.55/56 A.D. to 118 A.D., a Roman senator, orator and ethnographer---considered "the best of Roman historians." He first mentioned Christians when he wrote about the 64 A.D. fire in Rome, of which Nero was suspected of setting. Tacitus despised the Christians. He wrote to exonerate Nero:

"Neither human effort nor the emperor's generosity nor the placating of the gods ended the scandalous belief that the fire had been ordered [by Nero]. Therefore, to put down the rumor, Nero substituted as culprits and punished in the most unusual ways those hated for their shameful acts...whom the crowd called 'Christians.' The founder of this name, Christ [Christusin Latin], had been executed in the reign of Tiberius by the procurator Pontius Pilate." (Annals)

The leading historian of Rome in the first century accepted the fact that this Christus existed, after which the group of Christians was formed.

 

[KingdomRose]

This is only according to the belief of the RCC itself, and its dogmas and creeds it would spoon-feed you. You have no proof of apostolic succession apart from mere 'profession', (with some historical notes, legends and heresay) and in truth, anyone with actual anointing and authority from higher spiritual sources or powers, would have that 'unction' in spirit and truth, and the fruit of that would manifest itself, proving its own authenticity.

Excellent point.

 

[Tambora]

Then there's this.....

I love that song.

A few years back a guy on American Idol sang his version of it, as a rock singer.
I thought that would ruin it.
But I actually liked it.

 

[Tambora]

And BTW, yes, Jesus is YHWH.

 

[Ktoyou]

And BTW, yes, Jesus is YHWH.

Right. My question, why are there so many Jews on TOL, pretending to be Christians? We do allow those who hold Jewish beliefs.

 

[Tambora]

Right. My question, why are there so many Jews on TOL, pretending to be Christians? We do allow those who hold Jewish beliefs.

There's no rule that says all Jews must think alike.

There were old Jewish rabbis that believed "GOD is one" was a unity and not a singularity.
They recognized from scripture that YHWH consisted of more than just one singular person.

How can they (the three) be One? Are they verily One, because we call them One ? How Three can be One, can only be known through the revelation of the Holy Spirit. - Zohar, vol. ii. p. 43, versa., 22.

Come and see the mystery of the word hwhy, Jehova: there are three steps, each existing by itself; nevertheless they are One, and so united that one cannot be separated from the other. - Zohar, vol. iii. Amsterdam edition. 65.

The Ancient Holy One is revealed with three Heads, which are united in One, and that Head is thrice exalted. The Ancient Holy one is described as being Three; it is because the other Lights emanating from Him are included in the Three. Yet the Ancient One is described as being two. The Ancient One includes these two. He is the Crown of all that is exalted; the Chief of the chief, so exalted, that He cannot be known to perfection. Thus the other lights are two complete ones, yet is the Ancient Holy One described complete as one, and He is one, positively one; thus are the other lights united and glorified in because they are one. - Zohar, vol. iii. Amsterdam edition. 288.

. . . the exalted Shechinah comprehends the Three highest Sephiroth; of Him (God) it is said, (Ps. lxii. 12), "God hath spoken once; twice have I heard this." Once and twice means the Three exalted Sephiroth, of whom it is said: Once, once, and once; that is, Three united in One. This is the mystery. - Rabbi Simeon ben Jochai, The Propositions of the Zohar, cap. 38, Amsterdam edition. 113

Rabbi Simeon ben Jochai wrote a fascinating passage recorded in the Zohar that is as clear a discussion of the mystery of the Trinity as you could find in any Christian theology text. Rabbi Simeon comments on the text found in Deuteronomy 32:39: "See now that I, I am he, and Elohim is not with me." He said: "Friends, here are some profound mysteries which I desire to reveal to you now that permission has been given to utter them. Who is it that says, 'See now that I, I am He?' This is the Cause which is above all those on high, that which is called the Cause of causes. It is above those other causes, since none of those causes does anything till it obtains permission from that which is above it, as we pointed out above in respect to the expression, 'Let us make man.' 'Us' certainly refers to two, of which one said to the other above it, 'Let us make,' nor did it do anything save with the permission and direction of the one above it, while the one above did nothing without consulting its colleague. But that which is called 'the Cause above all causes,' which has no superior or even equal, as it is written, 'To whom shall ye liken me, that I should be equal?' (referring to Isaiah 40:25), said, 'See now that I, I am he, and Elohim is not with me,' from whom he should take counsel, like that of which it is written, 'and God said, Let us make man.'"

Another famous Jewish scholar, Rabbi Eliezer Hakkalir, who lived at the time of Rabbi Simeon ben Jochai, also taught the scriptural doctrine that there were three distinct Beings revealed in the one unified Godhead. In his commentary on Genesis 1:1, Rabbi Hakkalir wrote the following: When God created the world, He created it through the Three Sephiroth, namely, through Sepher, Sapher and Vesaphur, by which the Three twywh (Beings) are meant . . . The Rabbi, my Lord Teacher of blessed memory, explained Sepher, Sapher, and Sippur, to be synonymous to Ja, Jehovah, and Elohim meaning to say, that the world was created by these three names.

 

[patrick jane]

And BTW, yes, Jesus is YHWH.

Tam, I believe Jesus Christ is God, but do you think those that don't are not saved or not Christians. Is it possible to believe that Jesus Christ IS Divine but not God?

 

[Tambora]

Tam, I believe Jesus Christ is God, but do you think those that don't are not saved or not Christians. Is it possible to believe that Jesus Christ IS Divine but not God?

Not and have the correct Lord Jesus Christ of scripture.

Practically every cult has a Jesus Christ figure.
But that doesn't make those figures THE Jesus Christ of scripture (everything from a lesser god to just a nice prophet).
Can just any ol' Christ figure be sufficient?

THE Jesus Christ of scripture.
THE Jesus Christ that saves.
THE Jesus Christ that is YHWH.

To deny THE Jesus Christ of scripture would be to deny that GOD is the one and only LORD and SAVIOR of the world.
What they end up with is a different Jesus Christ than that of scripture.
To deny Jesus Christ is YHWH is to deny the word of GOD.

This is vastly different than just saying what one must do to be saved.
This is denying WHO saves.

 

[Ktoyou]

Tam, I believe Jesus Christ is God, but do you think those that don't are not saved or not Christians. Is it possible to believe that Jesus Christ IS Divine but not God?

Good, you believe rightly. It is also true no one can be saved by other than faith is Jesus as Christ and divine, one with God, and God. Know this, and do not worry about keeping others from finding you disagreeable. God wants us to be truthful with everyone.