Jesus is God !

[Bright Raven]

I have commentaries BR, all written by men, most of which by Trins who do not know any better.

Read the scriptures for yourself BR, clear your mind of all the traditions from our forefathers and learn truth.

The words in post 2989 are not mine, not one will tell you that Jesus is God.

A lot of commentary writer say Jesus is God.

 

[Bright Raven]

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Joh 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

LA

So where is the word creature?

 

[Lazy afternoon]

KEYPURR!

How can JESUS, who, according to you, is only a man, RANSOM HIS LIFE FOR THE WHOLE WORLD, when NO MAN, according to SCRIPTURE, can ransom HIS LIFE FOR ANOTHER?

Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

So where is the word creature?

Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

None of them can by any means redeem his brother, Nor give to God a ransom for him—For the redemption of their souls is costly, And it shall cease forever—That he should continue to live eternally, And not see the Pit. . . . But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave, For He shall receive me. Selah - Psalm 49:7-9,15 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm49:7-9,15&version=NKJV

 

[Lazy afternoon]

YHWH in English is? Spell it out..

BTW, Jesus is YHWH of the Old Testament.

No.

YHWH begat a son called Jesus,through Mary.

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

None of them can by any means redeem his brother, Nor give to God a ransom for him—For the redemption of their souls is costly, And it shall cease forever—That he should continue to live eternally, And not see the Pit. . . . But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave, For He shall receive me. Selah - Psalm 49:7-9,15 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm49:7-9,15&version=NKJV

Heb 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
Heb 2:12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
Heb 2:13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Heb 2:15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

 

[keypurr]

YHWH in English is? Spell it out..

BTW, Jesus is YHWH of the Old Testament.

Nope, Jesus was not in existence in OT times. The logos was though.

YHWH is the name of the Father.

 

[keypurr]

A lot of commentary writer say Jesus is God.

I know, comments by men. I disagree.

 

[drbrumley]

who raised Jesus from the dead? Well, just so happens Luke tells us in the Book of Acts 3:14,15.

14 But you denied the Holy One and the Just, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you, 15 and killed the Prince of life, whom God raised from the dead, of which we are witnesses.

But it gets better. The Apostle Paul says in 1 Thessalonians 1:9,10

9 For they themselves declare concerning us what manner of entry we had to you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, 10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

So we here have identified God the Father as the one who raised Jesus. I would hope we all can agree with this scripture. We wouldn't want it any clearer than that.

Now that is where our agreement ends. Hopefully after this discussion we can agree on much more than this.

Because from here on out, is where our study begins. Who raised Jesus from the Dead? An Important Question.

So, we have discovered God the Father raised Jesus from the dead.

But the scriptures do not stop there at answering the question. If you go back to John 2:19-21, Jesus Christ says:

19 Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
20 Then the Jews said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?”
21But He was speaking of the temple of His body.

So here we find Jesus says He will raise Himself from the dead. Is this not correct? I am reading this right, right?

And if this is true, we find that God the Father raised Jesus from the dead (Acts 3:15), Jesus raising Himself from the dead (John 2:19-21 and now this if as we needed anymore proof at who raised Jesus. Paul in Romans 8:11 tells us:

11But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Now the Sprit raised Jesus from the Dead. Interesting. What's up with that?

So according to the scripture who raised Jesus from the Dead?

Perhaps, all three? The Trinity.....

 

[JudgeRightly]

First of all, Keypurr, please learn how to nest (using that as a verb) quoted posts.

BZZZT!

Incorrect. JESUS IS THE LOGOS, the ONLY GOD.

BZZZT!

Incorrect. Jesus is the Logos, the Dove is the Holy Spirit, Who is also the only God.

No, The LOGOS WAS a spirit, but then He became a MAN, the MAN, Christ JESUS.

The father is the ONLY GOD, THE WORDS OF THE Lord Jesus Christ.
Why should I believe you and not him?

Because if YHWH, the ONLY GOD, is Triune, then Jesus statement DOES NOT EXCLUDE Jesus from being God.

YHWH IS TRIUNE, One God, three PERSONS.

THEREFORE:

The Father (the first Person of the TRIUNE YHWH) is the Only God.
The Son (the second Person of the TRIUNE YHWH) is the Only God.
The Holy Spirit (the third Person of the TRIUNE YHWH) is the Only God.

The THREE are ONE.

The flesh son of God was born for that purpose.

You keep trying to add to what the scripture says.

JESUS AND THE WORD ARE THE SAME PERSON.

Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

And?

Are you saying that God cannot take on a new name for Himself? That He has to create and indwell someone else and give them the name?

Talk about stealing Glory from God...

Jesus was a sinless, unblemished man, like Adam was.

No, NOT like Adam was. Adam sinned. Jesus did not.

Jesus BECAME a man. Adam was created as a man.

Why do you reject scripture that says this?

He was the ONLY one qualified to die for our sins.

Because He was GOD, Keypurr, not because He was a man, even though He was a Man.

You keep avoiding this scripture:

None of them can by any means redeem his brother, Nor give to God a ransom for him—For the redemption of their souls is costly, And it shall cease forever—That he should continue to live eternally, And not see the Pit. . . . But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave, For He shall receive me. Selah - Psalm 49:7-9,15 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm49:7-9,15&version=NKJV

This scripture says that MAN cannot ransom his life for another MAN. This scripture says that GOD will redeem man's soul. NOT A MAN.

Jesus became the Christ at his anointing

"Christ" just means "Anointed," Keypurr. You're trying to add meaning to the word.

with the logos.

NO, KEYPURR, JESUS IS THE LOGOS

"His name is the Word of God" (in Revelation)

Why do you reject scripture.

That spirit son (logos) is God's first creation.

The LOGOS was not created, Keypurr.

In the beginning was the Logos, and the LOGOS was with God, and God was the LOGOS.

Notice how John 1:1 doesn't start out with "In the beginning was God"? It says LOGOS.

John is mimicking Moses's words in Genesis 1:1, and in doing so, John is saying that the Word (the LOGOS) is God.

Keypurr, do you know why there are four gospels that were written, and why each of them have a different beginning?

Only YHWH is not created.

Yet you say He (Jesus, who is the SECOND PERSON of YHWH) was created.

The logos is a spirit

Was. Now He is both flesh AND spirit.

like his God.

No, because the LOGOS IS GOD, who is spirit.

He is the EXACT image of the Father

No argument there.

and was given the fullness of his Father.

No, Keypurr.

Phillipians 2:7 says He emptied Himself and took the form of a bondservant, coming in the likeness of men.

How does Jesus "empty Himself" if he didn't even exist before He was conceived in Mary's womb (as you claim)? And don't try to say, "It was the Logos who emptied Himself," because the passage is explicitly talking about Jesus Christ, and even if it said "Logos" instead of Jesus, it wouldn't matter, because THEY ARE THE SAME PERSON!

He is a created

No, He isn't. He created everything that was created. If He was created, then THIS VERSE WOULD INCLUDE HIMSELF, which is a LOGICAL CONTRADICTIONh.

All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. - John 1:3 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John1:3&version=NKJV

godlike

\

God is a jealous God, He shares his glory and praise with NO ONE. If you worship anyone but God, it is idolatry.

“You shall have no other gods before Me.“You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, - Exodus 20:3-5 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus20:3-5&version=NKJV

(for you shall worship no other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God), - Exodus 34:14 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus34:14&version=NKJV

I am the Lord, that is My name; And My glory I will not give to another, Nor My praise to carved images. - Isaiah 42:8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah42:8&version=NKJV

spirit

Was a spirit, is now both spirit and flesh. His name is Christ Jesus.

that God created

Already addressed.

everything through.

One cannot be a part of everything that one creates, and in order to create, one must first exist. You claim that Jesus, who is the Logos, created everything that was created, but is also a created being. That's not what Scripture says.

Scripture says:

Spoiler

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness.God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.”Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so.And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.Then God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so.And God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas. And God saw that it was good.Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth”; and it was so.And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.So the evening and the morning were the third day.Then God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years;and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so.Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also.God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth,and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.Then God said, “Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens.”So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.And God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.”So the evening and the morning were the fifth day.Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind”; and it was so.And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food.Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food”; and it was so.Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day. - Genesis 1:1-31 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis1:1-31&version=NKJV

Spoiler

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.He was in the beginning with God.All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe.He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’”And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace.For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.Now this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, “Who are you?”He confessed, and did not deny, but confessed, “I am not the Christ.”And they asked him, “What then? Are you Elijah?” He said, “I am not.” “Are you the Prophet?” And he answered, “No.”Then they said to him, “Who are you, that we may give an answer to those who sent us? What do you say about yourself?”He said: “I am ‘The voice of one crying in the wilderness: “Make straight the way of the L ord,”’ as the prophet Isaiah said.”Now those who were sent were from the Pharisees.And they asked him, saying, “Why then do you baptize if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?”John answered them, saying, “I baptize with water, but there stands One among you whom you do not know.It is He who, coming after me, is preferred before me, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose.”These things were done in Bethabara beyond the Jordan, where John was baptizing.The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!This is He of whom I said, ‘After me comes a Man who is preferred before me, for He was before me.’I did not know Him; but that He should be revealed to Israel, therefore I came baptizing with water.”And John bore witness, saying, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and He remained upon Him.I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’And I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God.”Again, the next day, John stood with two of his disciples.And looking at Jesus as He walked, he said, “Behold the Lamb of God!”The two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.Then Jesus turned, and seeing them following, said to them, “What do you seek?” They said to Him, “Rabbi” (which is to say, when translated, Teacher), “where are You staying?”He said to them, “Come and see.” They came and saw where He was staying, and remained with Him that day (now it was about the tenth hour).One of the two who heard John speak, and followed Him, was Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother.He first found his own brother Simon, and said to him, “We have found the Messiah” (which is translated, the Christ).And he brought him to Jesus. Now when Jesus looked at him, He said, “You are Simon the son of Jonah. You shall be called Cephas” (which is translated, A Stone).The following day Jesus wanted to go to Galilee, and He found Philip and said to him, “Follow Me.”Now Philip was from Bethsaida, the city of Andrew and Peter.Philip found Nathanael and said to him, “We have found Him of whom Moses in the law, and also the prophets, wrote—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.”And Nathanael said to him, “Can anything good come out of Nazareth?” Philip said to him, “Come and see.”Jesus saw Nathanael coming toward Him, and said of him, “Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom is no deceit!”Nathanael said to Him, “How do You know me?” Jesus answered and said to him, “Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you.”Nathanael answered and said to Him, “Rabbi, You are the Son of God! You are the King of Israel!”Jesus answered and said to him, “Because I said to you, ‘I saw you under the fig tree,’ do you believe? You will see greater things than these.”And He said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, hereafter you shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man.” - John 1:1-51 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John1:1-51&version=NKJV

But he is not God,

Saying it doesn't make it so, Keypurr.

ONLY YHWH IS GOD.

And Jesus is YHWH.
Just like the Father is YHWH.
Just like the Holy Spirit is YHWH.

I BELIEVE THE WORDS OF THE SON THAT CAME FROM ABOVE.

You don't. Otherwise you wouldn't be making these claims.

I will not knowingly bow to a false God.

God says at the name of Jesus EVERY knee shall bow, every tongue confess that HE IS LORD.

You say you will not bow before Him.

I'm going to bow before Him now, willingly, because I love Him, because He is God, rather than wait until judgement day when all who reject Him as God will be forced to bow before Him.

Jesus Christ is not God,

He is, you're just too blinded by your own stubborn beliefs to see that He is.

he is the son of God.

He is God, the Son of God.

The logos is a FORM of God, a god, but not YHWH.

Then He should not be worshipped. Yet the angels worship Him, and rightly so, because He is God.

But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: “Let all the angels of God worship Him.” - Hebrews 1:6 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews1:6&version=NKJV

For God to day "You shall have no other gods before me," and then tell His angels to worship Christ would be a contradiction.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

That's Jesus saying that.

Again, if Jesus is not God, then it is wicked for Him to say that.

You assume to much JR.

I assume that the Bible is true, and take it at face value.

You on the other hand reject many scripture in favor of others to uphold your wicked (yes, wicked) beliefs.

The Lamb had to experience all the trials of a human, to do that he needed to be human.
Consider also that God wanted a body he could trust to hold his logos. That logos created the Universe and everything in it. Jesus got that power at his anointing. Acts 10:38. The dove my friend.

Jesus and the Logos are the SAME PERSON. THERE IS NO DISTINCTION IN SCRIPTURE!

If there is, PLEASE show where the Bible says that the Logos and Jesus are TWO SEPARATE BEINGS.

JR, ONLY YHWH IS NOT A CREATION.

AND JESUS IS YHWH, BECAUSE JESUS WAS NOT CREATED!

Your understanding of scripture is wrong JR.

Says the one who rejects scripture.

You fail to see what the Lamb of God is all about.

Wrong. You don't even know who the Lamb of God is.

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

Too bad you reject what the Bible says about Jesus.

Keypurr, if Jesus is not God, then his death could save ABSOLUTELY NO ONE.
Keypurr, if Jesus is not God, then you are an idolator, because you worship someone who is not God.
Keypurr, if Jesus is not God, then He is either a liar or a lunatic, because everywhere He talked about Himself, He made claims that only God can righteously make.

Keypurr, if Jesus is God, then you are not giving Him the worship He deserves.
Keypurr, if Jesus is God, then all those who have been swayed by your message are going to hell because of you.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Too bad you reject what the Bible says about Jesus.

Keypurr, if Jesus is not God, then his death could save ABSOLUTELY NO ONE.

Only the death of the righteous man, the lamb of God, without spot or blemish, could atone for mans sin.

Jesus died, God did not.

Keypurr, if Jesus is not God, then you are an idolator, because you worship someone who is not God.

You must define the different words used for worship in the KJ Bible, and show who it was being worshipped in each case. Then you need to understand what worship is.

Keypurr, if Jesus is not God, then He is either a liar or a lunatic, because everywhere He talked about Himself, He made claims that only God can righteously make.

Like, "My Father is greater than I", "The Father seeks such to worship Him", "The Father is the only true God"

Keypurr, if Jesus is God, then you are not giving Him the worship He deserves.
Keypurr, if Jesus is God, then all those who have been swayed by your message are going to hell because of you.

Here is your big lie. No verses in the Bible say such as you say.

The Bible states--

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

You act as a judge because you do not truly know, confess and obey, Gods Son.

1Jn 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
1Jn 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
1Jn 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.



LA

 

[Bright Raven]

John 5:18-24 Amplified Bible (AMP)

Jesus’ Equality with God
18 This made the Jews more determined than ever to kill Him, for not only was He breaking the Sabbath [from their viewpoint], but He was also calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.

19 So Jesus answered them by saying, “I assure you and most solemnly say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself [of His own accord], unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever things the Father does, the Son [in His turn] also does in the same way. 20 For the Father dearly loves the Son and shows Him everything that He Himself is doing; and the Father will show Him greater works than these, so that you will be filled with wonder. 21 Just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life [and allows them to live on], even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes. 22 For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment [that is, the prerogative of judging] to the Son [placing it entirely into His hands], 23 so that all will give honor (reverence, homage) to the Son just as they give honor to the Father. [In fact] the one who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who has sent Him.

24 “I assure you and most solemnly say to you, the person who hears My word [the one who heeds My message], and believes and trusts in Him who sent Me, has (possesses now) eternal life [that is, eternal life actually begins—the believer is transformed], and does not come into judgment and condemnation, but has passed [over] from death into life.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Only the death of the righteous man, the lamb of God, without spot or blemish, could atone for mans sin.

Not according to Scripture:

None of them can by any means redeem his brother, Nor give to God a ransom for him—For the redemption of their souls is costly, And it shall cease forever—That he should continue to live eternally, And not see the Pit. . . . But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave, For He shall receive me. Selah - Psalm 49:7-9,15 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm49:7-9,15&version=NKJV

Jesus died, God did not.

Saying it doesn't make it so, LA.

You must define the different words used for worship in the KJ Bible, and show who it was being worshipped in each case. Then you need to understand what worship is.

I have a question for you below on this.

Like, "My Father is greater than I", "The Father seeks such to worship Him", "The Father is the only true God"

None of which exclude Jesus from being the only true God.

You know what I've noticed, LA, about those who say God is not triune?

All of the scriptural evidence they use, and I mean all of their evidence, is completely circumstantial. It can all be interpreted in ways that could mean God is or that God is not triune.

Yet no one who is "anti-trinitarian" (and I'm using that word lightly) can even come close to answering some of my questions for them which use scripture that cannot be interpreted any other way, and so they just do their little hand waving trick and claim it doesn't mean what it says.

Here is your big lie. No verses in the Bible say such as you say.

And what I said above includes you, and this is a perfect example.

The Bible states--

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Ok, and? This is what talking about. None of what you said refutes the trinity. In fact, I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with the topic, so what's your point?

You act as a judge because you do not truly know, confess and obey, Gods Son.

I judge because I AM obeying.

Have you never read Matthew 7:1-5? Luke 17:3-4? John 7:24? 1 Corinthians 2:15? 6:2-5?

f1Jn 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
1Jn 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
1Jn 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

LA

If you love someone who is hurting themselves, do you condemn them out of love? or do you leave them be?

But what does this have to do with God being Triune? Stay on topic, LA.

Here are my questions for you.

1) How can Jesus (if He is oly a created being, and not God Himself) pay for a sin that demands an eternal punishment, and not just one time, but as many times over as there are and have been human beings who have sinned, are sinning, and ever will sin? If each human being's (whose existence began at the moment of conception and will continue throughout the rest of eternity) punishment is costly enough that they can only pay for their own soul, and are not able to pay for another's soul, then how does Jesus (again, according to you, a created being, who had a beginning, as opposed to God who did not have a beginning, and is therefore eternal in both directions in time, making Him infinitely more valuable than any created being) pay for ALL MANKIND?
(The main scripture I am using for this is Psalm 49:7-9,15, though there are others)

2) How many times in the Bible does it show a righteous man, king, priest, or other, accepting worship? What does God say about idolatry, worshipping anyone but Him?

 

[JudgeRightly]

[MENTION=3801]keypurr[/MENTION], still waiting for a response. Not going to let this get buried.

First of all, Keypurr, please learn how to nest (using that as a verb) quoted posts.



Because if YHWH, the ONLY GOD, is Triune, then Jesus statement DOES NOT EXCLUDE Jesus from being God.

YHWH IS TRIUNE, One God, three PERSONS.

THEREFORE:

The Father (the first Person of the TRIUNE YHWH) is the Only God.
The Son (the second Person of the TRIUNE YHWH) is the Only God.
The Holy Spirit (the third Person of the TRIUNE YHWH) is the Only God.

The THREE are ONE.



You keep trying to add to what the scripture says.

JESUS AND THE WORD ARE THE SAME PERSON.



And?

Are you saying that God cannot take on a new name for Himself? That He has to create and indwell someone else and give them the name?

Talk about stealing Glory from God...



No, NOT like Adam was. Adam sinned. Jesus did not.

Jesus BECAME a man. Adam was created as a man.

Why do you reject scripture that says this?



Because He was GOD, Keypurr, not because He was a man, even though He was a Man.

You keep avoiding this scripture:

None of them can by any means redeem his brother, Nor give to God a ransom for him—For the redemption of their souls is costly, And it shall cease forever—That he should continue to live eternally, And not see the Pit. . . . But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave, For He shall receive me. Selah - Psalm 49:7-9,15 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm49:7-9,15&version=NKJV

This scripture says that MAN cannot ransom his life for another MAN. This scripture says that GOD will redeem man's soul. NOT A MAN.



"Christ" just means "Anointed," Keypurr. You're trying to add meaning to the word.



NO, KEYPURR, JESUS IS THE LOGOS

"His name is the Word of God" (in Revelation)

Why do you reject scripture.



The LOGOS was not created, Keypurr.

In the beginning was the Logos, and the LOGOS was with God, and God was the LOGOS.

Notice how John 1:1 doesn't start out with "In the beginning was God"? It says LOGOS.

John is mimicking Moses's words in Genesis 1:1, and in doing so, John is saying that the Word (the LOGOS) is God.

Keypurr, do you know why there are four gospels that were written, and why each of them have a different beginning?



Yet you say He (Jesus, who is the SECOND PERSON of YHWH) was created.



Was. Now He is both flesh AND spirit.



No, because the LOGOS IS GOD, who is spirit.



No argument there.



No, Keypurr.

Phillipians 2:7 says He emptied Himself and took the form of a bondservant, coming in the likeness of men.

How does Jesus "empty Himself" if he didn't even exist before He was conceived in Mary's womb (as you claim)? And don't try to say, "It was the Logos who emptied Himself," because the passage is explicitly talking about Jesus Christ, and even if it said "Logos" instead of Jesus, it wouldn't matter, because THEY ARE THE SAME PERSON!



No, He isn't. He created everything that was created. If He was created, then THIS VERSE WOULD INCLUDE HIMSELF, which is a LOGICAL CONTRADICTIONh.

All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. - John 1:3 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John1:3&version=NKJV

\

God is a jealous God, He shares his glory and praise with NO ONE. If you worship anyone but God, it is idolatry.

“You shall have no other gods before Me.“You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, - Exodus 20:3-5 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus20:3-5&version=NKJV

(for you shall worship no other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God), - Exodus 34:14 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus34:14&version=NKJV

I am the Lord, that is My name; And My glory I will not give to another, Nor My praise to carved images. - Isaiah 42:8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah42:8&version=NKJV



Was a spirit, is now both spirit and flesh. His name is Christ Jesus.



Already addressed.



One cannot be a part of everything that one creates, and in order to create, one must first exist. You claim that Jesus, who is the Logos, created everything that was created, but is also a created being. That's not what Scripture says.

Scripture says:

Spoiler

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness.God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.”Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so.And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.Then God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so.And God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas. And God saw that it was good.Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth”; and it was so.And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.So the evening and the morning were the third day.Then God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years;and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so.Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also.God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth,and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.Then God said, “Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens.”So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.And God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.”So the evening and the morning were the fifth day.Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind”; and it was so.And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food.Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food”; and it was so.Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day. - Genesis 1:1-31 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis1:1-31&version=NKJV

Spoiler

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.He was in the beginning with God.All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe.He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’”And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace.For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.Now this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, “Who are you?”He confessed, and did not deny, but confessed, “I am not the Christ.”And they asked him, “What then? Are you Elijah?” He said, “I am not.” “Are you the Prophet?” And he answered, “No.”Then they said to him, “Who are you, that we may give an answer to those who sent us? What do you say about yourself?”He said: “I am ‘The voice of one crying in the wilderness: “Make straight the way of the L ord,”’ as the prophet Isaiah said.”Now those who were sent were from the Pharisees.And they asked him, saying, “Why then do you baptize if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?”John answered them, saying, “I baptize with water, but there stands One among you whom you do not know.It is He who, coming after me, is preferred before me, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose.”These things were done in Bethabara beyond the Jordan, where John was baptizing.The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!This is He of whom I said, ‘After me comes a Man who is preferred before me, for He was before me.’I did not know Him; but that He should be revealed to Israel, therefore I came baptizing with water.”And John bore witness, saying, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and He remained upon Him.I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’And I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God.”Again, the next day, John stood with two of his disciples.And looking at Jesus as He walked, he said, “Behold the Lamb of God!”The two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.Then Jesus turned, and seeing them following, said to them, “What do you seek?” They said to Him, “Rabbi” (which is to say, when translated, Teacher), “where are You staying?”He said to them, “Come and see.” They came and saw where He was staying, and remained with Him that day (now it was about the tenth hour).One of the two who heard John speak, and followed Him, was Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother.He first found his own brother Simon, and said to him, “We have found the Messiah” (which is translated, the Christ).And he brought him to Jesus. Now when Jesus looked at him, He said, “You are Simon the son of Jonah. You shall be called Cephas” (which is translated, A Stone).The following day Jesus wanted to go to Galilee, and He found Philip and said to him, “Follow Me.”Now Philip was from Bethsaida, the city of Andrew and Peter.Philip found Nathanael and said to him, “We have found Him of whom Moses in the law, and also the prophets, wrote—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.”And Nathanael said to him, “Can anything good come out of Nazareth?” Philip said to him, “Come and see.”Jesus saw Nathanael coming toward Him, and said of him, “Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom is no deceit!”Nathanael said to Him, “How do You know me?” Jesus answered and said to him, “Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you.”Nathanael answered and said to Him, “Rabbi, You are the Son of God! You are the King of Israel!”Jesus answered and said to him, “Because I said to you, ‘I saw you under the fig tree,’ do you believe? You will see greater things than these.”And He said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, hereafter you shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man.” - John 1:1-51 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John1:1-51&version=NKJV

Saying it doesn't make it so, Keypurr.



And Jesus is YHWH.
Just like the Father is YHWH.
Just like the Holy Spirit is YHWH.



You don't. Otherwise you wouldn't be making these claims.



God says at the name of Jesus EVERY knee shall bow, every tongue confess that HE IS LORD.

You say you will not bow before Him.

I'm going to bow before Him now, willingly, because I love Him, because He is God, rather than wait until judgement day when all who reject Him as God will be forced to bow before Him.



He is, you're just too blinded by your own stubborn beliefs to see that He is.



He is God, the Son of God.



Then He should not be worshipped. Yet the angels worship Him, and rightly so, because He is God.

But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: “Let all the angels of God worship Him.” - Hebrews 1:6 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews1:6&version=NKJV

For God to day "You shall have no other gods before me," and then tell His angels to worship Christ would be a contradiction.



That's Jesus saying that.

Again, if Jesus is not God, then it is wicked for Him to say that.



I assume that the Bible is true, and take it at face value.

You on the other hand reject many scripture in favor of others to uphold your wicked (yes, wicked) beliefs.



Jesus and the Logos are the SAME PERSON. THERE IS NO DISTINCTION IN SCRIPTURE!

If there is, PLEASE show where the Bible says that the Logos and Jesus are TWO SEPARATE BEINGS.



AND JESUS IS YHWH, BECAUSE JESUS WAS NOT CREATED!



Says the one who rejects scripture.



Wrong. You don't even know who the Lamb of God is.



Too bad you reject what the Bible says about Jesus.

Keypurr, if Jesus is not God, then his death could save ABSOLUTELY NO ONE.
Keypurr, if Jesus is not God, then you are an idolator, because you worship someone who is not God.
Keypurr, if Jesus is not God, then He is either a liar or a lunatic, because everywhere He talked about Himself, He made claims that only God can righteously make.

Keypurr, if Jesus is God, then you are not giving Him the worship He deserves.
Keypurr, if Jesus is God, then all those who have been swayed by your message are going to hell because of you.

 

[keypurr]

First of all, Keypurr, please learn how to nest (using that as a verb) quoted posts.



Because if YHWH, the ONLY GOD, is Triune, then Jesus statement DOES NOT EXCLUDE Jesus from being God.

YHWH IS TRIUNE, One God, three PERSONS.

THEREFORE:

The Father (the first Person of the TRIUNE YHWH) is the Only God.
The Son (the second Person of the TRIUNE YHWH) is the Only God.
The Holy Spirit (the third Person of the TRIUNE YHWH) is the Only God.

The THREE are ONE.



You keep trying to add to what the scripture says.

JESUS AND THE WORD ARE THE SAME PERSON.



And?

Are you saying that God cannot take on a new name for Himself? That He has to create and indwell someone else and give them the name?

Talk about stealing Glory from God...



No, NOT like Adam was. Adam sinned. Jesus did not.

Jesus BECAME a man. Adam was created as a man.

Why do you reject scripture that says this?



Because He was GOD, Keypurr, not because He was a man, even though He was a Man.

You keep avoiding this scripture:

None of them can by any means redeem his brother, Nor give to God a ransom for him—For the redemption of their souls is costly, And it shall cease forever—That he should continue to live eternally, And not see the Pit. . . . But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave, For He shall receive me. Selah - Psalm 49:7-9,15 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm49:7-9,15&version=NKJV

This scripture says that MAN cannot ransom his life for another MAN. This scripture says that GOD will redeem man's soul. NOT A MAN.



"Christ" just means "Anointed," Keypurr. You're trying to add meaning to the word.



NO, KEYPURR, JESUS IS THE LOGOS

"His name is the Word of God" (in Revelation)

Why do you reject scripture.



The LOGOS was not created, Keypurr.

In the beginning was the Logos, and the LOGOS was with God, and God was the LOGOS.

Notice how John 1:1 doesn't start out with "In the beginning was God"? It says LOGOS.

John is mimicking Moses's words in Genesis 1:1, and in doing so, John is saying that the Word (the LOGOS) is God.

Keypurr, do you know why there are four gospels that were written, and why each of them have a different beginning?



Yet you say He (Jesus, who is the SECOND PERSON of YHWH) was created.



Was. Now He is both flesh AND spirit.



No, because the LOGOS IS GOD, who is spirit.



No argument there.



No, Keypurr.

Phillipians 2:7 says He emptied Himself and took the form of a bondservant, coming in the likeness of men.

How does Jesus "empty Himself" if he didn't even exist before He was conceived in Mary's womb (as you claim)? And don't try to say, "It was the Logos who emptied Himself," because the passage is explicitly talking about Jesus Christ, and even if it said "Logos" instead of Jesus, it wouldn't matter, because THEY ARE THE SAME PERSON!



No, He isn't. He created everything that was created. If He was created, then THIS VERSE WOULD INCLUDE HIMSELF, which is a LOGICAL CONTRADICTIONh.

All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. - John 1:3 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John1:3&version=NKJV

\

God is a jealous God, He shares his glory and praise with NO ONE. If you worship anyone but God, it is idolatry.

“You shall have no other gods before Me.“You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, - Exodus 20:3-5 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus20:3-5&version=NKJV

(for you shall worship no other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God), - Exodus 34:14 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus34:14&version=NKJV

I am the Lord, that is My name; And My glory I will not give to another, Nor My praise to carved images. - Isaiah 42:8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah42:8&version=NKJV



Was a spirit, is now both spirit and flesh. His name is Christ Jesus.



Already addressed.



One cannot be a part of everything that one creates, and in order to create, one must first exist. You claim that Jesus, who is the Logos, created everything that was created, but is also a created being. That's not what Scripture says.

Scripture says:

Spoiler

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness.God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.”Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so.And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.Then God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so.And God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas. And God saw that it was good.Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth”; and it was so.And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.So the evening and the morning were the third day.Then God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years;and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so.Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also.God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth,and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.Then God said, “Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens.”So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.And God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.”So the evening and the morning were the fifth day.Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind”; and it was so.And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food.Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food”; and it was so.Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day. - Genesis 1:1-31 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis1:1-31&version=NKJV

Spoiler

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.He was in the beginning with God.All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe.He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’”And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace.For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.Now this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, “Who are you?”He confessed, and did not deny, but confessed, “I am not the Christ.”And they asked him, “What then? Are you Elijah?” He said, “I am not.” “Are you the Prophet?” And he answered, “No.”Then they said to him, “Who are you, that we may give an answer to those who sent us? What do you say about yourself?”He said: “I am ‘The voice of one crying in the wilderness: “Make straight the way of the L ord,”’ as the prophet Isaiah said.”Now those who were sent were from the Pharisees.And they asked him, saying, “Why then do you baptize if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?”John answered them, saying, “I baptize with water, but there stands One among you whom you do not know.It is He who, coming after me, is preferred before me, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose.”These things were done in Bethabara beyond the Jordan, where John was baptizing.The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!This is He of whom I said, ‘After me comes a Man who is preferred before me, for He was before me.’I did not know Him; but that He should be revealed to Israel, therefore I came baptizing with water.”And John bore witness, saying, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and He remained upon Him.I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’And I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God.”Again, the next day, John stood with two of his disciples.And looking at Jesus as He walked, he said, “Behold the Lamb of God!”The two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.Then Jesus turned, and seeing them following, said to them, “What do you seek?” They said to Him, “Rabbi” (which is to say, when translated, Teacher), “where are You staying?”He said to them, “Come and see.” They came and saw where He was staying, and remained with Him that day (now it was about the tenth hour).One of the two who heard John speak, and followed Him, was Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother.He first found his own brother Simon, and said to him, “We have found the Messiah” (which is translated, the Christ).And he brought him to Jesus. Now when Jesus looked at him, He said, “You are Simon the son of Jonah. You shall be called Cephas” (which is translated, A Stone).The following day Jesus wanted to go to Galilee, and He found Philip and said to him, “Follow Me.”Now Philip was from Bethsaida, the city of Andrew and Peter.Philip found Nathanael and said to him, “We have found Him of whom Moses in the law, and also the prophets, wrote—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.”And Nathanael said to him, “Can anything good come out of Nazareth?” Philip said to him, “Come and see.”Jesus saw Nathanael coming toward Him, and said of him, “Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom is no deceit!”Nathanael said to Him, “How do You know me?” Jesus answered and said to him, “Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you.”Nathanael answered and said to Him, “Rabbi, You are the Son of God! You are the King of Israel!”Jesus answered and said to him, “Because I said to you, ‘I saw you under the fig tree,’ do you believe? You will see greater things than these.”And He said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, hereafter you shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man.” - John 1:1-51 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John1:1-51&version=NKJV

Saying it doesn't make it so, Keypurr.



And Jesus is YHWH.
Just like the Father is YHWH.
Just like the Holy Spirit is YHWH.



You don't. Otherwise you wouldn't be making these claims.



God says at the name of Jesus EVERY knee shall bow, every tongue confess that HE IS LORD.

You say you will not bow before Him.

I'm going to bow before Him now, willingly, because I love Him, because He is God, rather than wait until judgement day when all who reject Him as God will be forced to bow before Him.



He is, you're just too blinded by your own stubborn beliefs to see that He is.



He is God, the Son of God.



Then He should not be worshipped. Yet the angels worship Him, and rightly so, because He is God.

But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: “Let all the angels of God worship Him.” - Hebrews 1:6 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews1:6&version=NKJV

For God to day "You shall have no other gods before me," and then tell His angels to worship Christ would be a contradiction.



That's Jesus saying that.

Again, if Jesus is not God, then it is wicked for Him to say that.



I assume that the Bible is true, and take it at face value.

You on the other hand reject many scripture in favor of others to uphold your wicked (yes, wicked) beliefs.



Jesus and the Logos are the SAME PERSON. THERE IS NO DISTINCTION IN SCRIPTURE!

If there is, PLEASE show where the Bible says that the Logos and Jesus are TWO SEPARATE BEINGS.



AND JESUS IS YHWH, BECAUSE JESUS WAS NOT CREATED!



Says the one who rejects scripture.



Wrong. You don't even know who the Lamb of God is.



Too bad you reject what the Bible says about Jesus.

Keypurr, if Jesus is not God, then his death could save ABSOLUTELY NO ONE.
Keypurr, if Jesus is not God, then you are an idolator, because you worship someone who is not God.
Keypurr, if Jesus is not God, then He is either a liar or a lunatic, because everywhere He talked about Himself, He made claims that only God can righteously make.

Keypurr, if Jesus is God, then you are not giving Him the worship He deserves.
Keypurr, if Jesus is God, then all those who have been swayed by your message are going to hell because of you.

Long winded and clueless. God is not a three piece God. The express image, logos, is the first creation, for God created all through IT. Jesus was/is a man, he died, GOD CAN NOT DIE. You have no idea who God or his Son are. I suggest you do less texting and more reading.

Jesus is not God.

 

[keypurr]

John 5:18-24 Amplified Bible (AMP)

Jesus’ Equality with God
18 This made the Jews more determined than ever to kill Him, for not only was He breaking the Sabbath [from their viewpoint], but He was also calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.

19 So Jesus answered them by saying, “I assure you and most solemnly say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself [of His own accord], unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever things the Father does, the Son [in His turn] also does in the same way. 20 For the Father dearly loves the Son and shows Him everything that He Himself is doing; and the Father will show Him greater works than these, so that you will be filled with wonder. 21 Just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life [and allows them to live on], even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes. 22 For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment [that is, the prerogative of judging] to the Son [placing it entirely into His hands], 23 so that all will give honor (reverence, homage) to the Son just as they give honor to the Father. [In fact] the one who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who has sent Him.

24 “I assure you and most solemnly say to you, the person who hears My word [the one who heeds My message], and believes and trusts in Him who sent Me, has (possesses now) eternal life [that is, eternal life actually begins—the believer is transformed], and does not come into judgment and condemnation, but has passed [over] from death into life.

BR, Jesus Christ was sent by his God to get the Jews to see the light of truth. These are the ones that rejected his words, Just like Trins are doing today, they hold on to an evil doctrine that came from the RCC and enforced by the Emperor of Rome.

 

[Bright Raven]

Long winded and clueless. God is not a three piece God. The express image, logos, is the first creation, foe God created all through IT. Jesus was/is a man, he died, GOD CAN NOT DIE. You have no idea who God or his Son are. I suggest you do less texting and more reading.

Jesus is not God.

You are wrong Keypurr!


Did Jesus Claim to Be God? By Hank Hanegraaff

"I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever!" —Revelation 1:17-18

When Jesus came to Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples the mother of all questions, "Who do you say I am?" (Matthew 16:15; Mark 8:29; Luke 9:20). Mormons answer this question by saying that Jesus is the spirit brother of Lucifer; Jehovah's Witnesses answer by saying that Jesus is the archangel Michael; New Agers say Jesus is an avatar or enlightened messenger. Jesus, however, answered by claiming that He was God.

First, Jesus claimed to be the unique Son of God. As a result, the Jewish leaders tried to kill Him because in "calling God his own Father, [Jesus was] making himself equal with God" (John 5:18 NIV). In John 8:58 Jesus went so far as to use the very words by which God revealed Himself to Moses from the burning bush (Exodus 3:14). To the Jews this was the epitome of blasphemy, for they knew that in doing so Jesus was clearly claiming to be God. On yet another occasion, Jesus explicitly told the Jews: " 'I and the Father are one.' Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, 'I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?' 'We are not stoning you for any of these,' replied the Jews, 'but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God' " (John 10:30-33).

Furthermore, Jesus made an unmistakable claim to deity before the Chief Priests and the whole Sanhedrin. Caiaphas the High Priest asked him: " 'Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?' 'I am,' said Jesus. 'And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven' " (Mark 14:61-62 NIV). A biblically illiterate person might well have missed the import of Jesus' words. Caiaphas and the Council, however, did not. They knew that in saying he was "the Son of Man" who would come "on the clouds of heaven" he was making an overt reference to the Son of Man in Daniel's prophecy (Daniel 7:13-14). In doing so, He was not only claiming to be the preexistent Sovereign of the Universe but also prophesying that He would vindicate His claim by judging the very court that was now condemning Him. Moreover, by combining Daniel's prophecy with David's proclamation in Psalm 110, Jesus was claiming that He would sit upon the throne of Israel's God and share God's very glory. To students of the Old Testament this was the height of "blasphemy," thus "they all condemned him as worthy of death" (Mark 14:64-65).

Finally, Jesus claimed to possess the very attributes of God. For example, He claimed omniscience by telling Peter, "This very night, before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times" (Matthew 26:34); declared omnipotence by not only resurrecting Lazarus (John 11:43) but by raising Himself from the dead (see John 2:19); and professed omnipresence by promising He would be with His disciples "to the very end of the age" (Matthew 28:20). Not only so, but Jesus said to the paralytic in Luke 5:20, "Friend, your sins are forgiven". In doing so, He claimed a prerogative reserved for God alone. In addition, when Thomas worshiped Jesus saying "My Lord and my God!" (John 20:28), Jesus responded with commendation rather than condemnation.


What Credentials Back Up Jesus' Claim to Deity?
"When John heard in prison what Christ was doing, he sent his disciples to ask him, 'Are you the one who was to come, or should we expect someone else?' Jesus replied, 'Go back and report to John what you hear and see; The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cured, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is preached to the poor.'" —Matthew 11:2-5

Jesus not only claimed to be God but also provided many convincing proofs that he indeed was divine.

First, Jesus demonstrated that he was God in human flesh by manifesting the credential of sinlessness. While the Qur'an exhorts Muhammad to seek forgiveness for his sins, the Bible exonerates Messiah saying Jesus "had no sin" (2 Corinthians 5:21). And this is not a singular statement. John declares, "and in him is no sin" (1 John 3:5), and Peter says Jesus "committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth" (1 Peter 2:22). Jesus himself went so far as to challenge his antagonists asking, "Can any of you prove me guilty of sin?" (John 8:46)

Furthermore, Jesus demonstrated supernatural authority over sickness, the forces of nature, fallen angels, and even death itself. Matthew 4 records that Jesus went throughout Galilee teaching, preaching "and healing every disease and sickness among the people" (v.23). Mark 4 documents Jesus rebuking the wind and the waves saying, "Quiet! Be still!" (v.39). In Luke 4 Jesus encounters a man possessed by an evil spirit and commands the demon to "Come out of him!" (v.35). And in John 4, Jesus tells a royal official whose son was close to death, "Your son will live" (v.50). In fact, the four Gospels record how Jesus demonstrated ultimate power over death through the immutable fact of his resurrection.

Finally, the credentials of Christ's deity are seen in the lives of countless men, women, and children. Each day, people of every tongue and tribe and nation experience the resurrected Christ by repenting of their sins and receiving Jesus as Lord and Savior of their lives. Thus, they not only come to know about Christ evidentially, but experientially Christ becomes more real to them than the very flesh upon their bones.

For further study, see Millard J. Erickson, The Word Became Flesh: A Contemporary Incarnational Christology (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1996); and William Lane Craig, Reasonable Faith: Christian Truth and Apologetics, rev. ed. (Wheaton, Ill.: Crossway Books, 1994), chapters 7 and 8. Log onto the Christian Research Institute’s Web site at www.equip.org.
Adapted from Hank Hanegraaff, The Bible Answer Book (Nashville: J. Countryman, 2004).

 

[keypurr]

You are wrong Keypurr!


Did Jesus Claim to Be God? By Hank Hanegraaff

"I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever!" —Revelation 1:17-18

When Jesus came to Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples the mother of all questions, "Who do you say I am?" (Matthew 16:15; Mark 8:29; Luke 9:20). Mormons answer this question by saying that Jesus is the spirit brother of Lucifer; Jehovah's Witnesses answer by saying that Jesus is the archangel Michael; New Agers say Jesus is an avatar or enlightened messenger. Jesus, however, answered by claiming that He was God.

First, Jesus claimed to be the unique Son of God. As a result, the Jewish leaders tried to kill Him because in "calling God his own Father, [Jesus was] making himself equal with God" (John 5:18 NIV). In John 8:58 Jesus went so far as to use the very words by which God revealed Himself to Moses from the burning bush (Exodus 3:14). To the Jews this was the epitome of blasphemy, for they knew that in doing so Jesus was clearly claiming to be God. On yet another occasion, Jesus explicitly told the Jews: " 'I and the Father are one.' Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, 'I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?' 'We are not stoning you for any of these,' replied the Jews, 'but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God' " (John 10:30-33).

Furthermore, Jesus made an unmistakable claim to deity before the Chief Priests and the whole Sanhedrin. Caiaphas the High Priest asked him: " 'Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?' 'I am,' said Jesus. 'And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven' " (Mark 14:61-62 NIV). A biblically illiterate person might well have missed the import of Jesus' words. Caiaphas and the Council, however, did not. They knew that in saying he was "the Son of Man" who would come "on the clouds of heaven" he was making an overt reference to the Son of Man in Daniel's prophecy (Daniel 7:13-14). In doing so, He was not only claiming to be the preexistent Sovereign of the Universe but also prophesying that He would vindicate His claim by judging the very court that was now condemning Him. Moreover, by combining Daniel's prophecy with David's proclamation in Psalm 110, Jesus was claiming that He would sit upon the throne of Israel's God and share God's very glory. To students of the Old Testament this was the height of "blasphemy," thus "they all condemned him as worthy of death" (Mark 14:64-65).

Finally, Jesus claimed to possess the very attributes of God. For example, He claimed omniscience by telling Peter, "This very night, before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times" (Matthew 26:34); declared omnipotence by not only resurrecting Lazarus (John 11:43) but by raising Himself from the dead (see John 2:19); and professed omnipresence by promising He would be with His disciples "to the very end of the age" (Matthew 28:20). Not only so, but Jesus said to the paralytic in Luke 5:20, "Friend, your sins are forgiven". In doing so, He claimed a prerogative reserved for God alone. In addition, when Thomas worshiped Jesus saying "My Lord and my God!" (John 20:28), Jesus responded with commendation rather than condemnation.


What Credentials Back Up Jesus' Claim to Deity?
"When John heard in prison what Christ was doing, he sent his disciples to ask him, 'Are you the one who was to come, or should we expect someone else?' Jesus replied, 'Go back and report to John what you hear and see; The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cured, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is preached to the poor.'" —Matthew 11:2-5

Jesus not only claimed to be God but also provided many convincing proofs that he indeed was divine.

First, Jesus demonstrated that he was God in human flesh by manifesting the credential of sinlessness. While the Qur'an exhorts Muhammad to seek forgiveness for his sins, the Bible exonerates Messiah saying Jesus "had no sin" (2 Corinthians 5:21). And this is not a singular statement. John declares, "and in him is no sin" (1 John 3:5), and Peter says Jesus "committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth" (1 Peter 2:22). Jesus himself went so far as to challenge his antagonists asking, "Can any of you prove me guilty of sin?" (John 8:46)

Furthermore, Jesus demonstrated supernatural authority over sickness, the forces of nature, fallen angels, and even death itself. Matthew 4 records that Jesus went throughout Galilee teaching, preaching "and healing every disease and sickness among the people" (v.23). Mark 4 documents Jesus rebuking the wind and the waves saying, "Quiet! Be still!" (v.39). In Luke 4 Jesus encounters a man possessed by an evil spirit and commands the demon to "Come out of him!" (v.35). And in John 4, Jesus tells a royal official whose son was close to death, "Your son will live" (v.50). In fact, the four Gospels record how Jesus demonstrated ultimate power over death through the immutable fact of his resurrection.

Finally, the credentials of Christ's deity are seen in the lives of countless men, women, and children. Each day, people of every tongue and tribe and nation experience the resurrected Christ by repenting of their sins and receiving Jesus as Lord and Savior of their lives. Thus, they not only come to know about Christ evidentially, but experientially Christ becomes more real to them than the very flesh upon their bones.

For further study, see Millard J. Erickson, The Word Became Flesh: A Contemporary Incarnational Christology (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1996); and William Lane Craig, Reasonable Faith: Christian Truth and Apologetics, rev. ed. (Wheaton, Ill.: Crossway Books, 1994), chapters 7 and 8. Log onto the Christian Research Institute’s Web site at www.equip.org.
Adapted from Hank Hanegraaff, The Bible Answer Book (Nashville: J. Countryman, 2004).

So where did Jesus say he was God?

 

[Bright Raven]

So where did Jesus say he was God?

You have been shown so many times that one more will do nothing.