Beloved57 said:
Jesus shares the Essential Glory of God as God. Believers partake of a communicated glory in their being conformed to the image of Christ. You fail to discern the difference!
At the risk of 'nonengagement' accusation from NW ▲ this.
I'm assuming you're trying to communicate you're using beloved57 response to me as your answer?
If that is the case then you should know his answer is not adequate enough in answering what I asked, as I will explain.
(John 17:22-24) I HAVE GIVEN THEM THE GLORY THAT YOU HAVE GIVEN ME, IN ORDER THAT THEY MAY BE ONE JUST AS WE ARE ONE. I in union with them and you in union with me, in order that they may be perfected into one, so that the world may know that you sent me and that you loved them just as you loved me. Father, I want those whom you have given me to be with me where I am, IN ORDER THAT THEY MAY LOOK UPON MY GLORY THAT YOU HAVE GIVEN ME, because you loved me before the founding of the world.
Notice what Jesus says in v24, "in order that they may look upon my glory that you have given me", Jesus clearly states he was given glory by the Father; in the preceding verse, v22, he states regarding his followers, "I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one". Beloved57 seems to think by using different words in his response in relation to how christ and his followers each has glory that this somehow negates my reasoning. He states "Jesus shares the ESSENTIAL Glory of God" and "followers PARTAKE of a 'communicated glory'", how does this explain away my question? It doesn't! The Bible nowhere makes such a thing, rather, it's explicitly clear they share the same glory. Even by his answer, the question remains by what beloved57 states, as his answer still suggest others share/partake of God's glory! How is it possible others can partake/share YHWH's glory if scripture states YHWH does NOT share his glory! According to your own and beloved57 reasoning, your answer still implies followers of Christ are YHWH himself as they partake/share something YHWH does NOT share! Are you ever going to give a proper answer?
Please explain why other beings are called G-gods (Elohim), remember, in Ps 8:5 angels are referred to as "elohim" as confirmed by the inspired writer of Hebrews 2:7, and as you previously admitted, God 'so-called' other beings 'gods' according to 1 Cor 8:4-5, so explain why these beings that have been so-called god by the one God are not the one God according to your reasoning.
You’ve given no reason in relation to Rev 3:14, which after being scrutinized (Jamieson-Fausset-Brown lack of true exegesis, Hebrews 1:1,2, 1 Cor 8:4,5, and John's writing style and usage of the word), gives me any other reason to believe that Jesus is not the “beginning of the creation of God”, as the verse reads.
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The questions/points you've failed to address:
You haven’t shown me anywhere where the Greek word “arche” means beginner, despite you assuming this meaning in Rev 3:14.
You’ve given me no reason that when Prov 8:22 says “YHWH made me at the beginning of his way”, that this was not in relation to Jesus. All you can say it that is “Ambiguous”, whilst ignoring the overwhelming evidence, you don’t even attempt to speak about the evidence I brought to the table in relation to it, why? I can only assume its because you reject the rendering ONLY because it does not fit your biblical worldview despite all the evidence to the contrary. Simply replying, “Ambiguous”, is a fool’s answer imo.
You’ve given me no explanation how Jesus is the part of the group of creation according to Col 1:15, as you have admitted, but not a created being himself despite him being ‘PART’ of creation since he’s the firstborn.
You’ve given me no answer how Jesus is the Father according to Isaiah 9:6, yet is a separate person from the Father according to the trinity doctrine.
You haven’t clearly articulated what person of the trinity creation is ‘from’ according to 1 Cor 8:6 and Hebrews 1:1,2, despite you clearly understanding and stating it is through Jesus in the texts.
You’ve nowhere told me if God and the Angels were part of the “all things” since “nothing was left not subjected when subjecting all things under man” in Hebrews 2:8. This question was posed to you as you denied Jesus could be part of creation by the wording of John 1:3. Our reasoning and theology must be consistent.
You’ve nowhere explained how “God gave his blood” by dying on the cross, yet it was only Jesus humanity that died. Our reasoning and theology must be consistent.
You have not answered if it's possible that an eternal God can have an origin.
Did God so-call other beings "gods" according to 1 Cor 8:5?
Explain why John 1:1c has to be translated that the Word "was God" according to the grammar, also explain how it's possible that John 1:1 is definite in its sense but somehow doesn't contradict that Jesus was with the God he apparently was.
