Jehovah alone is the creator of the Universe.

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Apple7

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Now you all have piqued my interest. Tell us why you say this, Apple7. I hadn't ever realized that before, but I'm thinking you're correct.


The short version...


The Word (Logos) of God = The Second Person of The Trinity

The Word (Rhema) of God = The Third Person of The Trinity




We are directly told, in Eph 6, who The Word (rhema) of God is, as thus…

Eph 6.17

Also, take "the helmet of salvation," and ‘The Sword of The Spirit’ which is (the) Word (rhema) of God; (Isa. 59:17 LXX-Isa. 11:4; MT-Isa. 49:2; LXX and MT-Hos. 6:5)

Clearly, even in this one NT passage, we can see that The Word (rhema) of God is declared to be, in no uncertain terms, The Holy Spirit, the Third Person of The Trinity.
 

TrevorL

Well-known member
Greetings again Apple7,
Luke 3:1–2 (KJV): 1 Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias the tetrarch of Abilene, 2 Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness. Was this Jesus that met John in the wilderness before the start of John’s ministry?
So, what does the phrase "the word of God" mean here?
It refers to The Third Person of The Trinity.
Did God the Holy Spirit assume a human form and tap John the Baptist on the shoulder and say, “This is the message that you will deliver”:
Isaiah 40:3–8 (KJV): 3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. 4 Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: 5 And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it. 6 The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field: 7 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass. 8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

glorydaz

New member
The short version...


The Word (Logos) of God = The Second Person of The Trinity

The Word (Rhema) of God = The Third Person of The Trinity




We are directly told, in Eph 6, who The Word (rhema) of God is, as thus…

Eph 6.17

Also, take "the helmet of salvation," and ‘The Sword of The Spirit’ which is (the) Word (rhema) of God; (Isa. 59:17 LXX-Isa. 11:4; MT-Isa. 49:2; LXX and MT-Hos. 6:5)

Clearly, even in this one NT passage, we can see that The Word (rhema) of God is declared to be, in no uncertain terms, The Holy Spirit, the Third Person of The Trinity.

Well, that is just totally awesome. :thumb:
 

Apple7

New member
Greetings again Apple7,

Did God the Holy Spirit assume a human form and tap John the Baptist on the shoulder and say, “This is the message that you will deliver”:

Each passage is different.

We do know that The Third Person of The Trinity has manifested in the flesh (i.e. as a Dove at Jesus' Baptism, and as Melchizdek in the OT), and in various other forms in the OT.




Isaiah 40:3–8 (KJV): 3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD (Son) , make straight in the desert a highway for our God (Son) . 4 Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: 5 And the glory of the LORD (Son) shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD (Son) hath spoken it. 6 The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field: 7 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD (Holy Spirit) bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass. 8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God (Holy Spirit) shall stand for ever.

Kind regards
Trevor


Your own quote declares it quite nicely.

Interestingly, John 1 is referring to the One OT God as Triune and is proven to be true by reading the chapter context, as it then lists-out Father, Son & Holy Spirit.

Father: John 1.14, 18
Son: John 1.18, 34, 49
Spirit: John 1.32 - 33



We know that the second person of the Trinity was in the world from the beginning - and He came to His own, but the majority did not know Him, as thus…

He was in the world, and the world came into being through Him, yet the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.(Jer 8.9, etc) But as many as received Him, to them He gave authority to become children of God, to the ones believing into His name, who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but were born of God. And the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us. And we beheld His glory, glory as of an only begotten from the Father, full of grace and of truth. John witnesses concerning Him, and has cried out, saying, This One was He of whom I said, He coming after me has been before me, for He was preceding me. And out of His fullness we all received, and grace on top of grace. For the Law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has seen God at any time; but the unique One, Himself God, who is in the bosom of the Father, that One declares Him. (John 1.10 – 18)

Scripture clearly informs the reader that the Word occupied flesh when He was in the world and that He was beheld as The Glory of God.


That the second person of the Trinity occupied flesh before being born of a woman and being referred to as God The Son, is made crystal clear by John’s proclamation that ‘He coming after me has been before me, for He was preceding me’. This is a full admission that The Son was manifest before John’s time, during John's time, and after John’s time.
 

TrevorL

Well-known member
Greetings again Apple7,
Each passage is different.
We do know that The Third Person of The Trinity has manifested in the flesh (i.e. as a Dove at Jesus' Baptism, and as Melchizdek in the OT), and in various other forms in the OT.
I am not interested in responding to the additional detail in your Post, but what I was asking is in what form or how did “the word of God come to John in the wilderness”. Seeing you have claimed that this was actually the Holy Spirit, the third person of the Trinity, the question to you then is in what form or how did the Third Person of the Trinity, The Holy Spirit “come to John in the wilderness”.

My understanding of what occurred on the other hand is that John the Baptist was in the wilderness and the message, that is the Word of God the Father, that John was inspired to speak came into his consciousness, and when this Word comes upon a prophet, then he is borne along by the power of this to speak these words. I suggest that once again you have whitewashed the detail and the simple obvious meaning and then added the Trinity.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

Apple7

New member
Greetings again Apple7,I am not interested in responding to the additional detail in your Post, but what I was asking is in what form or how did “the word of God come to John in the wilderness”. Seeing you have claimed that this was actually the Holy Spirit, the third person of the Trinity, the question to you then is in what form or how did the Third Person of the Trinity, The Holy Spirit “come to John in the wilderness”.

My understanding of what occurred on the other hand is that John the Baptist was in the wilderness and the message, that is the Word of God the Father, that John was inspired to speak came into his consciousness, and when this Word comes upon a prophet, then he is borne along by the power of this to speak these words. I suggest that once again you have whitewashed the detail and the simple obvious meaning and then added the Trinity.

Kind regards
Trevor


Luke 1.15 -17 declares how the Holy Spirit came to John, i.e. in the same fashion as that of Elijah in 2 Kings 2.
 

TrevorL

Well-known member
Greetings again Apple7,
Luke 1.15 -17 declares how the Holy Spirit came to John, i.e. in the same fashion as that of Elijah in 2 Kings 2.
Your response seems to be obscure as there does not seem to be a strong link between the two passages. Perhaps you could elucidate.

Luke 1:15–17 (KJV): 15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb. 16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. 17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.
Luke 1:15-17 states that John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit from the womb, and thus I suggest that when it says that “the word of God came unto John in the wilderness” “in the fifteenth year of Tiberius Caesar” it is not speaking of the appearance of the so-called God the Holy Spirit, the 3rd Person of the Trinity as you claim.

Luke 3:1–3 (KJV): 1 Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias the tetrarch of Abilene, 2 Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness. 3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;
Rather it seems to connect the fact that the word of God came to John and the result was that this initiated the start of John the Baptist’s preaching and conducting baptism for the remission of sins.

I do not see the connection between Luke 1:15-16 and 2 Kings 2, but perhaps you could explain. God does direct Elijah to relocate, but this seems to be different from Luke 1:15-16.
2 Kings 2:1–2 (KJV): 1 And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal. 2 And Elijah said unto Elisha, Tarry here, I pray thee; for the LORD hath sent me to Bethel. And Elisha said unto him, As the LORD liveth, and as thy soul liveth, I will not leave thee. So they went down to Bethel.

I also find it interesting that the opening of Elijah’s ministry appears to be partly on Elijah’s own initiative and he uses the expression “my word”, while “the word of the LORD” is mentioned independent of this, directing Elijah how he would be sustained during the drought.
1 Kings 17:1–5 (KJV): 1 And Elijah the Tishbite, who was of the inhabitants of Gilead, said unto Ahab, As the LORD God of Israel liveth, before whom I stand, there shall not be dew nor rain these years, but according to my word. 2 And the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, 3 Get thee hence, and turn thee eastward, and hide thyself by the brook Cherith, that is before Jordan. 4 And it shall be, that thou shalt drink of the brook; and I have commanded the ravens to feed thee there. 5 So he went and did according unto the word of the LORD: for he went and dwelt by the brook Cherith, that is before Jordan.
Also I reject that “the word of the LORD” here is the 2nd or 3rd Person of the Trinity, but a message from the One God, God the Father, Yahweh.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

Dartman

New member
The short version...


The Word (Logos) of God = The Second Person of The Trinity

The Word (Rhema) of God = The Third Person of The Trinity




We are directly told, in Eph 6, who The Word (rhema) of God is, as thus…

Eph 6.17

Also, take "the helmet of salvation," and ‘The Sword of The Spirit’ which is (the) Word (rhema) of God; (Isa. 59:17 LXX-Isa. 11:4; MT-Isa. 49:2; LXX and MT-Hos. 6:5)

Clearly, even in this one NT passage, we can see that The Word (rhema) of God is declared to be, in no uncertain terms, The Holy Spirit, the Third Person of The Trinity.
We are told in Eph 6:17 THAT the word (rhema) of God is God's spirit..... and that the believer is to use God's words (rhema) as our sword.

John 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words (rhema): ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words (rhema) that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

John 17:8 For I have given unto them the words (rhema) which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

2 Peter 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words (rhema) which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

Jude 17 But, beloved, remember ye the words (rhema) which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
 
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Apple7

New member
Greetings again Apple7, Your response seems to be obscure as there does not seem to be a strong link between the two passages. Perhaps you could elucidate.

Luke 1:15–17 (KJV): 15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb. 16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. 17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias , to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.
Luke 1:15-17 states that John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit from the womb, and thus I suggest that when it says that “the word of God came unto John in the wilderness” “in the fifteenth year of Tiberius Caesar” it is not speaking of the appearance of the so-called God the Holy Spirit, the 3rd Person of the Trinity as you claim.



Kind regards
Trevor


If only you could actually address what you, yourself, underline and directly quote.
 

Dartman

New member
God's Spirit?
1 Cor 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by His spirit: for the spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

Eph 3:14-21 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
16 That He would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by His spirit in the inner man; 17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. 20 Now unto Him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, 21 Unto Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

 

Apple7

New member
1 Cor 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by His spirit: for the spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

The Spirit is arthrous in your example, and pertains to The Holy Spirit, The Third Person of The Trinity.
 

Apple7

New member
Eph 3:14-21 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named
16 That He would grant you, according to the riches of his glory (SON), to be strengthened with might by His spirit in the inner man; 17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. 20 Now unto Him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, 21 Unto Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.


Again, The Spirit is arthrous, and refers to The Third Person of The Trinity.

Further, you just proved The Trinity in this passage which mentions Father, Son, and Holy Spirit!
 

TrevorL

Well-known member
Greetings again Apple7,
If only you could actually address what you, yourself, underline and directly quote.
But the following does not support what you have been saying about the Word of God being the 3rd Person of the Trinity:
Luke 1:15–17 (KJV): 15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb. 16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. 17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.
This simply says that John the Baptist would fulfil the same role as Elijah in turning the hearts of the fathers to the children. He would have the same teaching “spirit” and be effective “power”.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

Dartman

New member
Again, The Spirit is arthrous, and refers to The Third Person of The Trinity.
Your opinion is STILL incorrect.
A7 said:
Further, you just proved The Trinity in this passage which mentions Father, Son, and Holy Spirit!
I'm not surprised you would desperately grasp for even the most LUDICROUS proof texts..... since there isn't a single text that actually states your premise.
Nor is there a single Biblical example of your "Jesus" being preached.
 
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