Its of Faith so to be of Grace

beloved57

Well-known member
And in Christ, "all shall be made alive," no?

But they have to be "in Christ" before they are made alive!

For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. - 1 Corinthians 15:21-22 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians15:21-22&version=NKJV



AMEN!

But don't forget the rest of the passage!

Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous. - Romans 5:18-19 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans5:18-19&version=NKJV



Wrong. This is not taught in scripture.



"In Adam" just means "in the flesh." It's a figure of speech.



Wrong. This is not taught in scripture.



Which says nothing at all about them being able to RESPOND to God's calling.



Says nothing at all about them being able to RESPOND to God's calling.



Which just means they are separated from God, not "corpse-like dead unable to respond to God's calling."



AMEN!



Chapter verse!

Because it's NOT IN SCRIPTURE!




But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. - John 5:40 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John5:40&version=NKJV
Sure all IN CHRIST shall be made alive, which is by the Grace of God, and dont forget, all men arent in Christ.
 

JudgeRightly

裁判官が正しく判断する
Staff member
Administrator
Super Moderator
Gold Subscriber

beloved57

Well-known member
You're still missing my point.

How does one get into Christ?

BY BELIEVING!



Which says nothing about those who are not in Christ being able to respond when the gospel is presented to them.

===

You have yet to answer:
One Gets in Christ by Election before the foundation. Man cant believe his way into Christ just like he didnt believe himself into Adam. How do you think man became to be in Adam ?
 

marke

Well-known member
Man is dead spiritually to God, he died in Adam, in Adam all sinned and died Rom 5:12

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

All men sinned in Adam before they were born

All men in Adam died, death was passed upon them. So babies in Adam who are men at their beginnings, have already in Adam sinned and died.

Men naturally dont come to God, seek God Rom 3:11 because they are dead in sin Rom 3:9

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

Man is born dead to God and the only thing that will rectify that is to be born again, not naturally, but Spiritually.
You cannot show any example in the Bible of unsaved sinners being unable to hear or understand God before God saved them and you cannot show any examples in the Bible of God not telling sinners to do things that He supposedly knew they could not understand or do.
 

JudgeRightly

裁判官が正しく判断する
Staff member
Administrator
Super Moderator
Gold Subscriber
One Gets in Christ by Election before the foundation.

WRONG!

One gets in Christ by BELIEVING!

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace, Who bring glad tidings of good things!”So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. - Romans 10:9-15,17 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans10:9-15,17&version=NKJV

Man cant believe his way into Christ

Straw man. I never said that.

Belief in Christ is not meritorious. It doesn't earn God's grace. But it IS REQUIRED by God for God to save someone. God does not save unbelievers. He saves believers, not as a result of their belief, but because He said He would save any who believe, and not doing so would be inconsistent with Himself.

just like he didn't believe himself into Adam.

I have no idea what that is supposed to mean.

How do you think

What I think has nothing to do with it. What matters is what scripture says.

man became to be in Adam?

By being a descendant of Adam. What does that have to do with anything?

===

You have yet to answer:

Man is born dead to God

Chapter verse!
 

beloved57

Well-known member
WRONG!

One gets in Christ by BELIEVING!

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace, Who bring glad tidings of good things!”So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. - Romans 10:9-15,17 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans10:9-15,17&version=NKJV



Straw man. I never said that.

Belief in Christ is not meritorious. It doesn't earn God's grace. But it IS REQUIRED by God for God to save someone. God does not save unbelievers. He saves believers, not as a result of their belief, but because He said He would save any who believe, and not doing so would be inconsistent with Himself.



I have no idea what that is supposed to mean.



What I think has nothing to do with it. What matters is what scripture says.



By being a descendant of Adam. What does that have to do with anything?

===

You have yet to answer:
Thats right. One gets in Christ by Sovereign Election, its all by Him 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus,
who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

The chosen were placed in Christ before they had any physical existence, it was before the foundation Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Now you explain to me how someone believed into Christ before they existed, before the foundation of the world !
 

JudgeRightly

裁判官が正しく判断する
Staff member
Administrator
Super Moderator
Gold Subscriber
Thats right. One gets in Christ by Sovereign Election,

WRONG.

It's by believing.

its all by Him

Yes, Salvation is all of God.

But believing is of man.

1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

The chosen were placed in Christ before they had any physical existence,

Wrong.

"The chosen" are just those who believe. It's not specific individuals, but rather ANYONE who believes.

God chose that those who are in Him should be holy and blameless before Him in love.

It wasn't choosing unto salvation or election. It was choosing those "In Him" to be holy and blameless.

As opposed to those "Not In Him."

it was before the foundation Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Now you explain to me how someone believed into Christ before they existed, before the foundation of the world!

Straw man. I don't believe that.

YOU believe that people were elected before the foundation of the world, not me.

I believe that God chose "us in Him" to be holy and blameless, as per the verse you just quoted.

I don't believe God chose people that don't exist, but that He chose that whoever is "in Him" would be holy and blameless.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Salvation is by Grace apart from works, its apart from anything done by a person of which he can boast, or feel good about. It does come through the Gift of Faith, which makes it by Faith alone, which Gift of Faith is not of man, but a Gift given to man, and so all of Salvation including the Gift of Faith, is of Grace alone. Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Rom 4:16

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
 

marke

Well-known member
Sure all IN CHRIST shall be made alive, which is by the Grace of God, and dont forget, all men arent in Christ.
God promised to save His people in the OT as long as they believed and obeyed His word, but those of His children who rebelled He rejected and turned into hell. God did not make His children rebel against Him. They did that on their own.

Exodus 32:14
And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

2 Chronicles 33:10
And the Lord spake to Manasseh, and to his people: but they would not hearken.

2 Chronicles 36:16
But they mocked the messengers of God, and despised his words, and misused his prophets, until the wrath of the Lord arose against his people, till there was no remedy.

Psalm 78:62
He gave his people over also unto the sword; and was wroth with his inheritance.

Psalm 106:40
Therefore was the wrath of the Lord kindled against his people, insomuch that he abhorred his own inheritance.

Isaiah 1:3
The ox knoweth his owner, and the ass his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider.

Isaiah 5:25
Therefore is the anger of the Lord kindled against his people, and he hath stretched forth his hand against them, and hath smitten them: and the hills did tremble, and their carcases were torn in the midst of the streets. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.

Hosea 1:9
Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.

John 1
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Read carefully what Rom 4:16 is saying about Faith

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Simply stated, Faith is by or the by product of Grace, Grace given manufactures Faith. Thats why Faith is not of ourselves but its the Gift of God Eph 2:8 that is its a Gift of Gods Grace. In the Eph 2:8 verse opposers argue that Faith isn't a Gift because its feminine in gender and gift is neuter in gender in the greek. Yes that's true but it doesnt change the character of faith being a gift of Grace since both Grace and Faith are feminine, and there's no disputing that Grace is the Gift of God. Paul specifically calls it a gift here Eph 3:7

Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Now was he made a minister apart from being made a believer, Faith in Christ ? No ! Grace is nothing less than the effectual working of Christs power ! So its of Faith to evidence its the by product of Gods effectual Grace and power.
 

marke

Well-known member
Read carefully what Rom 4:16 is saying about Faith

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Simply stated, Faith is by or the by product of Grace, Grace given manufactures Faith. Thats why Faith is not of ourselves but its the Gift of God Eph 2:8 that is its a Gift of Gods Grace. In the Eph 2:8 verse opposers argue that Faith isn't a Gift because its feminine in gender and gift is neuter in gender in the greek. Yes that's true but it doesnt change the character of faith being a gift of Grace since both Grace and Faith are feminine, and there's no disputing that Grace is the Gift of God. Paul specifically calls it a gift here Eph 3:7

Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Now was he made a minister apart from being made a believer, Faith in Christ ? No ! Grace is nothing less than the effectual working of Christs power ! So its of Faith to evidence its the by product of Gods effectual Grace and power.
The Bible does not teach that God refuses to allow most sinners access to salvation because He is merciful by nature.

  1. Psalm 103:8
    The Lord is mercifuland gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy.
  2. Psalm 116:5
    Gracious is the Lord, and righteous; yea, our God is merciful.

 

beloved57

Well-known member
Ephesians 2: 8: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Salvation is of God in its; completeness: , in every part, beginning to end, so that God gets all the glory and the saved sinner has no room to boast about anything.

Faith is the Gift of Gods Grace which is the spiritual medium which the saved receives a first hand knowledge experientially of the already purchased salvation they have in Christ, hence its by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, its the gift of God.


All three things mentioned in Eph 2:8 are gifts of God,

Grace is the Gift of God, Salvation is the Gift of God, and Faith is the Gift of God !
 

marke

Well-known member
Ephesians 2: 8: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Salvation is of God in its; completeness: , in every part, beginning to end, so that God gets all the glory and the saved sinner has no room to boast about anything.

Faith is the Gift of Gods Grace which is the spiritual medium which the saved receives a first hand knowledge experientially of the already purchased salvation they have in Christ, hence its by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, its the gift of God.


All three things mentioned in Eph 2:8 are gifts of God,

Grace is the Gift of God, Salvation is the Gift of God, and Faith is the Gift of God !
Is God gracious towards all sinners or just to those sinners He has chosen according to His own secret whims that have nothing to do with the sinner's responses to His word? Did God deliberately make some sinners to hate with a passion and some sinners to love with a love that had nothing to do with their attitudes towards Him? I do not think so.

God is merciful, not hateful, towards all sinners, both saved and lost, and He has commanded us to love our enemies just as He does.


Luke 6:35-36

King James Version


35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.​

 

beloved57

Well-known member
The only difference between the many who perish and the few who are chosen is the difference which grace has made 1 Corinthians 4:7; 2 Thessalonians 2:10-14. As for me, I gratefully credit the whole of my salvation to Gods grace, who loved me with His own freewill ,with an everlasting love and saved me by His grace Eph 2:8. “By the grace of God I am what I am 1 Cor 15:10.” I am chosen by grace Rom 11:5, redeemed by grace Eph 1:7, called by grace Gal 1:15, given faith to believe by grace Acts 18:27, preserved by grace Ps 37:28, and sovereign grace alone shall bring me into heaven’s eternal glory 1 Thess 5:23
 

JudgeRightly

裁判官が正しく判断する
Staff member
Administrator
Super Moderator
Gold Subscriber
The only difference between the many who perish and the few who are chosen is the difference which grace has made 1 Corinthians 4:7; 2 Thessalonians 2:10-14. As for me, I gratefully credit the whole of my salvation to Gods grace, who loved me with His own freewill ,with an everlasting love and saved me by His grace Eph 2:8. “By the grace of God I am what I am 1 Cor 15:10.” I am chosen by grace Rom 11:5, redeemed by grace Eph 1:7, called by grace Gal 1:15, given faith to believe by grace Acts 18:27, preserved by grace Ps 37:28, and sovereign grace alone shall bring me into heaven’s eternal glory 1 Thess 5:23

Bump for @beloved57

Man is born dead to God

Chapter verse, please.
 

marke

Well-known member
The only difference between the many who perish and the few who are chosen is the difference which grace has made 1 Corinthians 4:7; 2 Thessalonians 2:10-14. As for me, I gratefully credit the whole of my salvation to Gods grace, who loved me with His own freewill ,with an everlasting love and saved me by His grace Eph 2:8. “By the grace of God I am what I am 1 Cor 15:10.” I am chosen by grace Rom 11:5, redeemed by grace Eph 1:7, called by grace Gal 1:15, given faith to believe by grace Acts 18:27, preserved by grace Ps 37:28, and sovereign grace alone shall bring me into heaven’s eternal glory 1 Thess 5:23
God resists the proud and gives grace to the lowly. Nowhere in the Bible are we told that God created the proud unable to repent or made sinners repent and forced them to humble themselves so He could then show them grace.

Proverbs 3:34
Surely he scorneth the scorners: but he giveth grace unto the lowly.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
It is faith so to be of grace Rom 4:16

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Grace comes before faith, that is believing faith is because of grace. Thats why believing faith could never be a reason for a person to boast. Faith/Believing is the gift of God, the effectual result of Salvation Eph 2:5, and Salvation is a Gift of Gods Grace. Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Matt 16:17

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through or Because of grace:
 

marke

Well-known member
It is faith so to be of grace Rom 4:16

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Grace comes before faith, that is believing faith is because of grace. Thats why believing faith could never be a reason for a person to boast. Faith/Believing is the gift of God, the effectual result of Salvation Eph 2:5, and Salvation is a Gift of Gods Grace. Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Matt 16:17

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through or Because of grace:
We can all have faith in the word of God that assures us of the unwillingness of God that any sinner should perish if only that sinner will turn to Jesus for the gift of salvation
 
Top