"It's Just a Game!"

Buzzword

New member
I thought this might be a good way to bridge the gap between two groups which are constantly portrayed as competing with and mutually exclusive to one another in our culture.

Group 1: Fanatical Followers of Ball Sports
Group 2: Fanatical Followers of Role-Playing Videogames.

From the extreme perspective of the former, the latter are obsessing over people and places which have never existed and will never exist, are shut-ins devoid of social skills, are blights on society because they don't contribute and/or are mooching off their parents, etc.

From the extreme perspective of the Group 2, Group 1 are brutish, plebeian, brainwashed barbarians, and/or are enablers of such, who delight in the titillation of their most base, violent urges by proxies who are collectively paid billions of dollars a year, and who are hypocrites for shaming "nerds" for religiously following anime or game series while they themselves collect player and team stats just as religiously.

Of course, from a non-extreme perspective, both groups are simply taking in a form of entertainment which they enjoy.


My choice of thread title stems from arguments I've had as a member of Group 2 with members of Group 1, both offensively and defensively.

Offensively, during any family gathering during football, basketball, or baseball season. Especially in moments when the rest of the room not named Myself or My Wife are losing their minds in the general direction of the television. Saying anything which betrays the fact that I'm NOT experiencing the emotional intensity swirling around the room invites anger and an overall "HOW DARE YOU?!" attitude.

Defensively, during any discussion of hobbies with family or friends who do not share this particular interest. Conveying my emotional reaction to a particular story moment in a game is almost an act of trust in these situations, because those hearing it may not have any similar experience (or think they don't, because too many people do not or cannot equate a videogame story with that of a novel or film or television series).

Both sports fans and gamers HATE to be told "It's just a game! Why are you so upset!"
And I think this should be a point of common ground between us, especially when so many social forces and their expectations try to set us against one another instead of allowing us to peacefully coexist in a mature manner.

Of course, those social expectations don't help the case for common ground when Group 1 is treated as "normal" while Group 2 is treated as "abnormal".
Or, more precisely, Group 1 is treated as part of the Western masculine ideal, and Group 2 is treated as effeminate (and therefore unacceptable because anything deemed female-ish is somehow automatically worthy of shame).

Thus Group 1, as the established, socially acceptable group, feels no need to build bridges.
They are secure in their fortress of manliness, and simply expect everyone to join their ranks eventually.

Group 2, as the outcast, sometimes gets addicted to being the outcast.
This is why we see anyone ever smeared as "casuals," and why so many Vlogs on YouTube center around conspiracy theories by game companies to "pander to the casual base"...which is somehow the most evil thing ever.
Nobody in Group 1 seems to worry about who is and isn't a "true fan," due to the assumption that everyone everywhere is or will be a fan at some point.
Thus Group 2 shoots themselves in the foot in many cases, alienating people who want to join up because they're somehow not dedicated enough (usually due to these individuals NOT demonstrating the stereotypes listed in the extreme perspective of Group 1 above).

Of course, it should be said that I'm mostly dealing in stereotypes here.
There are many, maaany individuals who occupy both camps, playing Skyrim all week and then heading to the local stadium on Friday night.

But maturity demands that the stereotypes be addressed as such, that individuals partaking in hobbies which bring joy to their lives be encouraged to do so, and for everyone to accept and enjoy the fact that it is not, in the end, "just a game".
 

Selaphiel

New member
Speaking of "just a game". The US team "Evil Geniuses" took home 6,6 million dollars yesterday by winning "The International" in the game Dota 2.
 

M. A. Williams

New member
Speaking of "just a game". The US team "Evil Geniuses" took home 6,6 million dollars yesterday by winning "The International" in the game Dota 2.

Indeed and as far as earnings go in gaming, 6.6 million isn't that much for a team to make collectively when all things are considered.

StarCraft is the national sport in Korea, after all. Money is big there. It's televised. Sponsorships are big and large teams, even outside of Korea now, have million-dollar properties that the teams live and train in.

There's money in it, that's for sure.
 

Selaphiel

New member
It is not a horrendous amount of money, but it is quite respectable. I also very much enjoyed the way that game builds its prize pools by community participation. The production values of the tournament were great and it is fun to see just how quickly e-sports are growing.

What keeps e-sports as a niche at the moment is that it still is based on games that require a fair amount of understanding on the viewers part. Games like Dota 2 or Starcraft are immensely complex games with a whole lot of even basic mechanics.
 

kmoney

New member
Hall of Fame
It is not a horrendous amount of money, but it is quite respectable. I also very much enjoyed the way that game builds its prize pools by community participation. The production values of the tournament were great and it is fun to see just how quickly e-sports are growing.

What keeps e-sports as a niche at the moment is that it still is based on games that require a fair amount of understanding on the viewers part. Games like Dota 2 or Starcraft are immensely complex games with a whole lot of even basic mechanics.

I missed it but several weeks ago ESPN aired a game tournament (forget which game). It was the first time I'd heard of them doing that. Maybe gauging the interest. I'd actually be interested in watching and I was disappointed that I had missed it. It was aired late at night which is probably the only time that ESPN would take the risk of showing it. I hope they try for it again and I have an opportunity to watch some.

I agree with you that part of the problem is that people won't have much interest unless they can relate or understand the game. FPS games would gain a foothold quicker than RPGs, I think.

There used to be a TV channel that focused on gaming, G4. I mostly watched "Attack of the Show" on that channel but I wonder if they ever aired gaming tournaments. Considering the focus of the channel it would surprise me if they never did, but I don't recall ever seeing it in the show listings. They had shows to review video games, but I never saw anything about actually playing the games. I wonder if the channel would have been more successful if they could have gotten into that. Or maybe they did but didn't find any success/value in it.

Back when I used to play Halo quite often I would enjoy watching videos on YouTube of highly skilled players doing crazy things. If someone could air Xbox Live games I bet it would gain some interest.
 

kmoney

New member
Hall of Fame
I thought this might be a good way to bridge the gap between two groups which are constantly portrayed as competing with and mutually exclusive to one another in our culture.

Group 1: Fanatical Followers of Ball Sports
Group 2: Fanatical Followers of Role-Playing Videogames.

From the extreme perspective of the former, the latter are obsessing over people and places which have never existed and will never exist, are shut-ins devoid of social skills, are blights on society because they don't contribute and/or are mooching off their parents, etc.

From the extreme perspective of the Group 2, Group 1 are brutish, plebeian, brainwashed barbarians, and/or are enablers of such, who delight in the titillation of their most base, violent urges by proxies who are collectively paid billions of dollars a year, and who are hypocrites for shaming "nerds" for religiously following anime or game series while they themselves collect player and team stats just as religiously.

Of course, from a non-extreme perspective, both groups are simply taking in a form of entertainment which they enjoy.


My choice of thread title stems from arguments I've had as a member of Group 2 with members of Group 1, both offensively and defensively.

Offensively, during any family gathering during football, basketball, or baseball season. Especially in moments when the rest of the room not named Myself or My Wife are losing their minds in the general direction of the television. Saying anything which betrays the fact that I'm NOT experiencing the emotional intensity swirling around the room invites anger and an overall "HOW DARE YOU?!" attitude.

Defensively, during any discussion of hobbies with family or friends who do not share this particular interest. Conveying my emotional reaction to a particular story moment in a game is almost an act of trust in these situations, because those hearing it may not have any similar experience (or think they don't, because too many people do not or cannot equate a videogame story with that of a novel or film or television series).

Both sports fans and gamers HATE to be told "It's just a game! Why are you so upset!"
And I think this should be a point of common ground between us, especially when so many social forces and their expectations try to set us against one another instead of allowing us to peacefully coexist in a mature manner.

Of course, those social expectations don't help the case for common ground when Group 1 is treated as "normal" while Group 2 is treated as "abnormal".
Or, more precisely, Group 1 is treated as part of the Western masculine ideal, and Group 2 is treated as effeminate (and therefore unacceptable because anything deemed female-ish is somehow automatically worthy of shame).

Thus Group 1, as the established, socially acceptable group, feels no need to build bridges.
They are secure in their fortress of manliness, and simply expect everyone to join their ranks eventually.

Group 2, as the outcast, sometimes gets addicted to being the outcast.
This is why we see anyone ever smeared as "casuals," and why so many Vlogs on YouTube center around conspiracy theories by game companies to "pander to the casual base"...which is somehow the most evil thing ever.
Nobody in Group 1 seems to worry about who is and isn't a "true fan," due to the assumption that everyone everywhere is or will be a fan at some point.
Thus Group 2 shoots themselves in the foot in many cases, alienating people who want to join up because they're somehow not dedicated enough (usually due to these individuals NOT demonstrating the stereotypes listed in the extreme perspective of Group 1 above).

Of course, it should be said that I'm mostly dealing in stereotypes here.
There are many, maaany individuals who occupy both camps, playing Skyrim all week and then heading to the local stadium on Friday night.

But maturity demands that the stereotypes be addressed as such, that individuals partaking in hobbies which bring joy to their lives be encouraged to do so, and for everyone to accept and enjoy the fact that it is not, in the end, "just a game".

Good analysis. I agree that the 'it's just a game' could be a common ground.

Did you ever watch the movie Role Models? Reading this thread I was reminded of that because of the one kid's interest in a live action RPG. I enjoyed the movie and I think it can send a good message for people who are into that type of thing.
 

Selaphiel

New member
The final in Dota 2 had some great moment, this is probably the greatest. Of course it helps to understand the game. It was an absolute monster play that ended up in such a disaster that the commentators voice cracks up :chuckle: (0:17)

 

Buzzword

New member
The final in Dota 2 had some great moment, this is probably the greatest. Of course it helps to understand the game. It was an absolute monster play that ended up in such a disaster that the commentators voice cracks up :chuckle: (0:17)


I am so confused right now.

They were commentating like we had a close view of what was going on, but I could barely tell that the team was fighting some big thing.

You'd think by now someone would have come up with a spectator mod to give more varied views of the action.
 

kmoney

New member
Hall of Fame
Back when I used to play Halo quite often I would enjoy watching videos on YouTube of highly skilled players doing crazy things. If someone could air Xbox Live games I bet it would gain some interest.

http://techcrunch.com/2015/08/26/meet-youtube-gaming-twitchs-archenemy/#.nrzygj:56Mp

"Meet YouTube Gaming, Twitch’s Archenemy"

"YouTube just launched YouTube Gaming on the web, Android and iOS. As expected, YouTube Gaming goes head-to-head against Twitch, mirroring many popular features of the existing gaming streaming giant.

YouTube just launched YouTube Gaming on the web, Android and iOS. As expected, YouTube Gaming goes head-to-head against Twitch, mirroring many popular features of the existing gaming streaming giant.

We played with the Android app before the launch, and here’s how it works. When you open the app, you are presented with a search bar at the top, a few featured channels and a feed of the most popular channels. The current featured channels don’t focus on esports like most Twitch channels. Right now, you can find a 12-hour stream of NBA 2K15, and official stream of Metal Gear Solid V, a speed run of Until Dawn and an Eve Online live show.

The app also features to other tabs, a “Games” tab and a “Channels” tab. When you browse by game, you can see the trending games and popular games — the latter selection is one of Twitch’s most popular feature as Twitch’s homepage features a grid of the most popular games right now. It’s a great way to know if there is a big event or competition happening for a particular game. You can favorite games and add them to your games at the top of this list.

In the last tab, you can find a list of featured channels divided in two. The first half features current live channels ordered by number of subscribers, while the second half features a list of offline channels ordered by subscribers as well. Similarly, you can favorite a channel to add it to the top of the list. This way, you know in just a few seconds if your favorite streamer is live.

Interestingly, it looks like many popular traditional YouTube channels are now YouTube Gaming channels as well, such as Machinima. And this is key to understanding YouTube’s advantage in the streaming game. YouTube is already a popular video site for gaming videos. These popular YouTubers can seamlessly become popular live streamers and take advantage of their existing audience.

When you select a channel, you get a live video and a chat. There’s nothing groundbreaking in the video screen, but YouTube provides a better live streaming experience as you can pause a live stream and timeshift.

The interface is very similar on the web. Instead of having three main tabs, you get two popover menus on the left and on the right, with trending games on the left and trending channels on the right. If you go on a game page, you can also find popular YouTube videos. The company is taking advantage of its huge backlog of gaming videos, and this is smart.

In the end, it all comes down to content. If YouTube can convince Riot to stream its League of Legends competitions on YouTube Gaming instead of Twitch, it could make millions of people tune in YouTube Gaming overnight. Counter Strike: Global Offensive, Hearthstone and Dota 2 are going to be important games as well.

These competitions boost Twitch’s incredible long tail. When there isn’t any competition, hundreds of thousands of people are still watching streamers. For many people, game streaming means Twitch — if they want to watch something, they browse Twitch.

YouTube has definitely put a lot of resources into this launch with a service already available on the three main platforms. We will see whether old habits die hard, but YouTube Gaming looks like a heavyweight and Twitch’s most serious competitor to date."


=====================

Has anyone used Twitch before? Or will you use YouTube's version?

Sounds fun.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Show me a good loser and I will show you a loser. It's just a game? Connect Four is just a game.
 

Spitfire

New member
Nobody in Group 1 seems to worry about who is and isn't a "true fan," due to the assumption that everyone everywhere is or will be a fan at some point.
Not true. At all. :p There can be quite a bit of resentment toward "casual" fans who don't know and follow their team (and the sport in general) carefully enough and only really take interest when mainstream media prompts them to. It's actually a similar situation with both groups.
 

PureX

New member
I can't help noticing the similarities, rather than the differences.

Both rely heavily on cunning and violence. Both provide "players" with an alternative environment in which to engage in such cunning and violence. And both are engaged in predominantly by younger males.
 

Buzzword

New member
Not true. At all. :p There can be quite a bit of resentment toward "casual" fans who don't know and follow their team (and the sport in general) carefully enough and only really take interest when mainstream media prompts them to. It's actually a similar situation with both groups.

I put my lack of awareness down to not having any "true" fans in my vicinity. :p
Everyone in my family has a favorite team or set of teams, and follow them pretty religiously, but it's not like some examples of people who hear a particular player's name and start rattling off stats.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Not true. At all. :p There can be quite a bit of resentment toward "casual" fans who don't know and follow their team (and the sport in general) carefully enough and only really take interest when mainstream media prompts them to. It's actually a similar situation with both groups.

They are called Yankee and Cowboy fans in this part of the world.
 
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