ECT Ism Shism

Right Divider

Body part
I am trying to understand but until I can resolve the problems I see in the reasoning, I will appear to be deaf to you.
I hope that you get to the point that you can see and hear.

This is one of the problems. I'm told Paul was the first and the pattern. Then I'm told we can't look at his practice of baptizing believers because he didn't get the truth of the gospel all at once. Acts 19 is on his LAST missionary journey. When did he learn baptism isn't necessary? After he had finished traveling the known world teaching a gospel that included baptizing believers? The evidence isn't backing up the claim.
Firstly, Paul is the first and a pattern for the NEW revelation that God gave to him. This does NOT mean (as many falsely claim of MAD) that Paul dumped everything that God had taught before this.

Paul was NOT saved like others. Paul was an enemy of God and not a friend. Paul was not like the twelve in this respect.

Secondly, even though Paul traveled and preached, he was not a missionary. He was a traveling apostle. The apostle of the Gentiles to be exact.

I do understand. Apollos taught souls Jesus, NKJV says accurately taught Jesus. Is Jesus not the gospel? He taught Jesus except for one detail, baptism.
(25) This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.
If baptism isn't part of the gospel, why did Paul baptize them again "in the name of Jesus"?
Once again, you missed the point. These people in Act 18-19 were Jews what believed in Christ per God's previous revelations regarding Israel, their Christ and their kingdom.

BINGO, unbelieving. It doesn't matter Jew or Greek, only the believers are true Israel. 8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.
Man, you are just so indoctrinated..... Believing Israel is believing Israel. Believing Gentiles in the dispensation of the grace of God do NOT become Israel. That's just nonsense.

When Paul said that "not all Israel is Israel" he was NOT including others but EXCLUDING UNBELIEVING ISRAEL.

God didn't reject the Jews.
Rom. 11:1 I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew...... 5 In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God's gracious choice.
They rejected salvation.
Acts 13:46 Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, "It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first; since you repudiate it and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.
Again, those in Christ are true Israel, not Israel of the flesh.
Phil. 3:2 Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision; 3 for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh,
I didn't say that God rejected Israel, simply that THEY are FALLEN temporarily, Just like Paul said.
Rom 11:11-12 KJV I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. (12) Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
"How much more their fullness" is THEIR restoration!
Act 1:6 KJV When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Christ did NOT correct their understanding! They were CORRECT.

Yes, Paul continued to work with Jews. Did he preach something different to them than he did the Gentiles?
Look what he says to them.

Act 28:23-31 KJV And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
DUDE!!!!!

I showed you that this was JEWS that he was talking to here!
Act 28:29 KJV And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.
Paul was STILL trying to "save some" of his kinsmen.

With unbelieving Jews, Paul STARTS with preaching Jesus as the CHRIST, the SON OF GOD. If you can't get an unbelieving Jew PAST that, you cannot move on the dispensation of the grace of God through Jesus.

Paul continued to preach the kingdom and he uses kingdom interchangeably with the church just as Jesus did.
Acts 20:25 "And now, behold, I know that all of you, among whom I went about preaching the kingdom, will no longer see my face.....28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

Matt. 16:18 I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven;
You are wrong on this as well.

The "church of God" was in Jerusalem and guess who was there.

Paul NEVER EVER refers to the gentiles churches in this manner. He never calls US sheep, NEVER EVER refers to gentiles as "priests" or the body of Christ a "priesthood".

You need to rightly divide, but you willfully refuse.
 

turbosixx

New member
Again, your heart seems right, its how you are looking at things, on contrast to how others are, that is resulting in a difference.

Its the same not only within any belief system, but within any school within any belief system - Newton and Einstein would have rung each other's neck, lol

In this, I have to commend you for your patience in the face of being talked down to so often by one expert in one shade or another in the gospel of, get this - grace.

Hang in there.

In the immortal words of Speed Racer "you'll see it through..." lol

Loved Speed Racer as a kid. I would run home so I wouldn't miss it.
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
The "church of God" was in Jerusalem and guess who was there.

Those who were in Christ before Paul.



Paul NEVER EVER refers to the gentiles churches in this manner. He never calls US sheep, NEVER EVER refers to gentiles as "priests" or the body of Christ a "priesthood".

Peter did and he said Paul said the same things.

2 Peter 3:16
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.


You need to rightly divide, but you willfully refuse.


No, you need to O vain one.:shocked:
 

Danoh

New member
"You need to rightly divide, but you willfully refuse" - RD

He doesn't know how from a Mid-Acts Perspective and that is a very individual learning curve. Some get it right off; some eventually do and even surpass those who knew it inside and out who led them to it. Others never will.

Their must be a willingness. Until he says otherwise "charity believeth all things.."

In this, a generous, consistent portion of 2 Tim. 2: 24-26, is a great edifier to both sides.
 

turbosixx

New member
I hope that you get to the point that you can see and hear.
I want to see the truth.


Firstly, Paul is the first and a pattern for the NEW revelation that God gave to him. This does NOT mean (as many falsely claim of MAD) that Paul dumped everything that God had taught before this.

Paul was NOT saved like others. Paul was an enemy of God and not a friend. Paul was not like the twelve in this respect.

Secondly, even though Paul traveled and preached, he was not a missionary. He was a traveling apostle. The apostle of the Gentiles to be exact.
There is zero proof here.



Once again, you missed the point. These people in Act 18-19 were Jews what believed in Christ per God's previous revelations regarding Israel, their Christ and their kingdom.
Is the gospel not for all?
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
13For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,

Man, you are just so indoctrinated...
I could say the same thing.

. Believing Israel is believing Israel. Believing Gentiles in the dispensation of the grace of God do NOT become Israel. That's just nonsense.
Phil. 3:3 for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God
Gal. 3:29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants
Col. 2:11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands,
Aren't these the things that identify who is Israel?

I showed you that this was JEWS that he was talking to here!
Act 28:29 KJV And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.
Paul was STILL trying to "save some" of his kinsmen.

With unbelieving Jews, Paul STARTS with preaching Jesus as the CHRIST, the SON OF GOD. If you can't get an unbelieving Jew PAST that, you cannot move on the dispensation of the grace of God through Jesus.
Yes, they're Jews and he's preaching Christ. Is grace found anywhere else?


You are wrong on this as well.

The "church of God" was in Jerusalem and guess who was there.

Paul NEVER EVER refers to the gentiles churches in this manner. He never calls US sheep, NEVER EVER refers to gentiles as "priests" or the body of Christ a "priesthood".

You need to rightly divide, but you willfully refuse.

Why can't it all be the same? Does Paul ever refer to Jesus as the son of man? When the 12 do, are they referring to someone different?
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
Loved Speed Racer as a kid. I would run home so I wouldn't miss it.

Sometimes racer x was smarter than speed racer.

Speed: Racing hasn't changed, and it never will.
Racer X: It doesn't matter if racing never changes. What matters is if we let racing change us. Every one of us has to find a reason to do this. You don't climb into a T-180 to be a driver. You do it because you're driven.
Speed Racer

Read more at http://www.quotesandpoem.com/movies/speed-racer.html#xiAptVr0MbGI4Hcf.99

:checker:
 

Right Divider

Body part
Those who were in Christ before Paul.
Yes, they were in Christ. So?

Peter did and he said Paul said the same things.

2 Peter 3:16
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Are you learning impaired?

And what was the THING that Paul wrote in ALL of his epistles was:
2Pe 3:15-16 KJV And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; (16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
This in NO WAY says that Paul ONLY taught the SAME things that Peter and the gang taught. It's just your uninformed and BIASED opinion that lead you to believe that nonsense.

No, you need to O vain one.:shocked:
Says a know nothing.
 

Right Divider

Body part
I want to see the truth.
Then open your eyes and see it.

There is zero proof here.
So you don't believe what Paul says?

Is the gospel not for all?
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
13For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,
Which gospel?

The scripture shows WHAT the gospel of the kingdom is:
Mar 1:14-15 KJV Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, (15) And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
That gospel of the kingdom was that the KINGDOM OF GOD IS AT HAND! Israel needed to repent and believe THIS good news.

I could say the same thing.
You could, but you'd be wrong again.

Phil. 3:3 for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God
Gal. 3:29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants
Col. 2:11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands,
Aren't these the things that identify who is Israel?
No.

Yes, they're Jews and he's preaching Christ. Is grace found anywhere else?
Once again, you ask your baiting questions attempting to distract from the DETAILS in the scripture.

God did not begin to dispense His grace to ALL without distinction until Israel had rejected their Christ and His kingdom. God did that when He raised Paul.

Why can't it all be the same? Does Paul ever refer to Jesus as the son of man? When the 12 do, are they referring to someone different?
If the scripture SHOWS that something is the same, then it's the same. Why do YOU need everything to be the same?

No, Paul does not refer to Jesus as the Son of Man and there is a reason for that.

Is it SO hard for you to understand that Jesus can have more than ONE ministry? Why so you force everything to be exactly the same?

Why was there even a need for ONE more apostle? If there was no distinction between Jew and Gentiles immediately after the cross, why is there an apostle OF THE GENTILES?
 

turbosixx

New member
Is it SO hard for you to understand that Jesus can have more than ONE ministry? Why so you force everything to be exactly the same?

It is the same because everyone is saved in Christ. No one is saved outside of Christ. We are all one in Christ.

Rom. 10:11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for "Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved."

Rom. 11:14 if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them.
How are they saved? Same as the Gentiles, in Christ.


The wall came down at the cross, why put it back up.
Eph. 2:14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity,
 

Danoh

New member
Sometimes racer x was smarter than speed racer.

Speed: Racing hasn't changed, and it never will.
Racer X: It doesn't matter if racing never changes. What matters is if we let racing change us. Every one of us has to find a reason to do this. You don't climb into a T-180 to be a driver. You do it because you're driven.
Speed Racer

Read more at http://www.quotesandpoem.com/movies/speed-racer.html#xiAptVr0MbGI4Hcf.99

:checker:

How about that - we have something in common.

I say too bad it is not my Mid-Acts to your _____? But that's ok. I learned to be graceful from an old Baptist Pastor who was the only one in his group who always defended our group whenever his own would start with their anti-Mid-Acts nastiness. And nasty they were, lol
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
How about that - we have something in common.

I say too bad it is not my Mid-Acts to your _____? But that's ok. I learned to be graceful from an old Baptist Pastor who was the only one in his group who always defended our group whenever his own would start with their anti-Mid-Acts nastiness. And nasty they were, lol

I like honesty.

So yore gracefulness is mimicked not authentic.

I already knew that when you told me one can be as patient as they want.

:)
 

Danoh

New member
I like honesty.

So yore gracefulness is mimicked not authentic.

I already knew that when you told me one can be as patient as they want.

:)

Wow; that's what you come away with. That will have to suffice for now. His grace is more than suffucient to see me through.

In this, thanks for the opportunity to walk in Him in the face of your words.

The best to you...
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
Wow; that's what you come away with. That will have to suffice for now. His grace is more than suffucient to see me through.

In this, thanks for the opportunity to walk in Him in the face of your words.

The best to you...

You're welcome.:)
 

Right Divider

Body part
It is the same because everyone is saved in Christ. No one is saved outside of Christ. We are all one in Christ.

Rom. 10:11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for "Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved."

Rom. 11:14 if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them.
How are they saved? Same as the Gentiles, in Christ.
So you think that Christ's earthly ministry to Israel is identical to Christ's ministry through Paul where there is no Jew or Gentile?

The wall came down at the cross, why put it back up.
Eph. 2:14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity,
Indeed.... and HOW and WHEN did we find this out? By Christ's revelation through Paul years after the cross.

Please show us Peter announcing this at Pentecost.
 
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