Aimiel
Well-known member
It certainly follows more logic than awakening millions from the dead to put them to death. :duh:
Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?
- Thread starter Timotheos
- Start date
Aimiel
Well-known member
According to my Bible, there is judgment after death which results in those whose names are not found in The Lamb's Book of Life being cast into the Lake of Fire to suffer the same fate as Satan. No matter how many times you deny that fact, it is still in Scripture. :duh:
You are still doing the :duh: thing huh?
Do you know what that makes you look like?
So Romans 6:23 is not in your Bible? And Revelation 20:14 where John says straight out that the lake of fire is the second death, is that not in your Bible either? I'm quoting the Bible here, in Revelation 20:14 it says "The lake of fire is the second death". That's what I'm saying too.
Is John 3:16 in your Bible? According to John 3:16 the only two options are to perish or to have eternal life. Having eternal life being tormented alive forever in hell is not one of the options.
Aimiel
Well-known member
I was trying to speak at your level of understanding.
Is there Scriptures missing from your Bible?
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Sorry, but the 'second death' is only called that because it is worse than the first death. It is eternal conscious torment, obviously. You need to wake up. Christianity isn't a bunch of nonsense. It is real. Hell is real. You are missing out on Truths found in Scripture.
I keep hoping that Aimiel will see scripture and reason. It will probably take an eternity. When Christ returns, it will be undeniable. Aimiel won't be able to deny the truth then.
He has ONE (1) Verse from the Apocalyptic Book of Revelation, and even that verse doesn't come out and say "The wicked will go to heck when they die where they will be tormented alive for all eternity, being tormented alive is the second death."
The very best argument Aimiel has is :duh:, that's why he keeps coming back to that one.
Sorry, the second death is not called the second death because it is worse than the first death. How did you come up with that? The second death is called the SECOND death because it comes AFTER the first death. Second Base is called "Second Base" because it comes after First Base. A second date is called a second date because it comes after the first date. A second marriage is called a second marriage because it comes after the first marriage.
I don't need to wake up as you so offensively put it. (Why can't you act like a decent human being?) I never said that Christianity is a bunch of nonsense, so why don't you wake up? You haven't shown any "truths found in scripture". You've only shown me out of context proof texts that you think might support your unbiblical tradition.
There is no verse in the entire Bible that says "Bad people go to hell when they die where they are tormented alive forever while they are dead." But there are many verses that say "The wicked will perish, the wicked will be no more, the wages of sin is death, the wide road leads to destruction, unless you repent you will perish, the wicked pay the penalty of eternal destruction, the wicked will be destroyed just as Sodom was destroyed, the soul that sins shall die, etc etc etc..."
I think you are the one who needs to wake up and smell the scripture.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
My karma ran over your dogma
My karma ran over your dogma
Whether 'heaven' or 'hell' exists,...if you are a soul that is conscious and is capable of actions....the law of karma still prevails....wherever you are (in this or any other world). If you transgress (violate) any natural or spiritual law....you suffer to the degree of that transgression, and naturally so.
ECT is religious myth, metaphor, interpretation or belief that is against reason, let alone certain fundamental laws.
pj
My karma ran over your dogma
Whether 'heaven' or 'hell' exists,...if you are a soul that is conscious and is capable of actions....the law of karma still prevails....wherever you are (in this or any other world). If you transgress (violate) any natural or spiritual law....you suffer to the degree of that transgression, and naturally so.
ECT is religious myth, metaphor, interpretation or belief that is against reason, let alone certain fundamental laws.
pj
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Love without end..........
Love without end..........
Well, it would be logical for some believing in ECT to behave in ways less than kind or compassionate.....after all, their 'God' is an Eternal Punisher. Would you expect those who serve such a 'God' to have a greater degree of decency, love, kindness or compassion? So much for mercy.
One's theology naturally affects or is a derivative of their psychology. A mirror for the soul. With a more pure reflection of 'God', the soul becomes a better mirror.
pj
Love without end..........
Well, it would be logical for some believing in ECT to behave in ways less than kind or compassionate.....after all, their 'God' is an Eternal Punisher. Would you expect those who serve such a 'God' to have a greater degree of decency, love, kindness or compassion? So much for mercy.
One's theology naturally affects or is a derivative of their psychology. A mirror for the soul. With a more pure reflection of 'God', the soul becomes a better mirror.
pj
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Figure 8
Figure 8
That's a tall order in theology-land. It also presupposes that something being 'biblical' grants it credibility. Now ask any odd assortment of 'christians'....what is 'biblical'? :help:
Depends on who you ask, and how they define words. This thread has so far become a hamster-wheel, running over the same bars....over and over.
See above and hit 'repeat'
pj
Figure 8
That's a tall order in theology-land. It also presupposes that something being 'biblical' grants it credibility. Now ask any odd assortment of 'christians'....what is 'biblical'? :help:
Depends on who you ask, and how they define words. This thread has so far become a hamster-wheel, running over the same bars....over and over.
See above and hit 'repeat'
pj
Krsto
Well-known member
The more open to understanding scripture I became the more open I became to examining popular doctrines and rejecting man's silly traditions.
You should try it.
If that is the case, please post the scripture that states quite clearly that people go to hell when they die where they are tormented alive for all eternity.
In the meantime, I will post the scripture that states quite clearly that the wages of sin is death. Romans 6:23
I can also post the scripture that states clearly that the wicked perish, Psalm 37:20, the wicked will be no more, Psalm 37:10, The wicked are destroyed, Matthew 7:13, Matthew 10:28, 2 Thess 1:9, Jude 7, and many many more scriptures, too many to post.
Sorry, but Eternal Conscious Torment only makes sense to those who have decided to ignore scripture and have closed their minds off to scripture. You can't even post one verse that backs up your claim, and you refuse to even address any of the scripture I've shown you backing up the truth of the Bible. You have proven that you are the one who has a closed mind to the scripture.
That's true, because people like Aimiel refuse to accept the truth, I keep posting scripture hoping that someday Aimiel and Godrulz will be able to accept what the Bible says.
It's possible that they will never accept the truth until Jesus returns and they see for themselves that the wicked will perish and will not be kept alive forever in hell.
But the scriptures are so clear that the wages of sin is death, that I keep holding onto my hope that they will someday open their eyes and see clearly. It takes more than clear persuasion, it will take a lot of prayer.
Nobody has an excuse for hating God, of course they cannot physically harm God so they do what they can, they attack man...children made in His image, murdering without compunction or mercy...man's hatred of God is fully shown when they nailed His Son to a tree.
...without a cause they hate Him, but God does have a cause, they showed no mercy or compunction these enemies without a cause and they will themselves recieve no mercy unless they repent.
And folk who aid and abet them with lies, failing to warn them will share a measure of wrath too.
...without a cause they hate Him, but God does have a cause, they showed no mercy or compunction these enemies without a cause and they will themselves recieve no mercy unless they repent.
And folk who aid and abet them with lies, failing to warn them will share a measure of wrath too.
But we are talking to Christians. Shouldn't we expect better behavior from people who want to follow Christ? When we discuss what the scriptures say, should we expect to be insulted by other Christians? Even if we are wrong about what the scriptures say, aren't Christians commanded to love their enemies? And shouldn't we be commended by other Christians for believing scripture rather than man-made (or serpent-made) traditions about hell?
If you think that the wages of sin is not death, please post the scripture that you think disproves Romans 6:23. If you think that God sends people to hell when they die where they will be tormented alive forever, please post the scripture that says that.
If you are Christ's you will teach His doctrine, if you deliberately teach lies in His name you are an enemy of Christ and of man who you are speeding on to punishment ...we are taught to shun false brethren and shun them we will.
"Oh God is love, He will never hurt a fly..." God is as impressed by flattery as Christ was impressed by Judas.
"Oh God is love, He will never hurt a fly..." God is as impressed by flattery as Christ was impressed by Judas.
That is why I teach Christ's doctrine and not the man made doctrine of Eternal Torment in Hell. Jesus said that body and soul will be destroyed in hell. (Gehenna) Matthew 10:28
People who claim that the body and soul will not be destroyed are deliberately contradicting Jesus Christ. Go ahead and shun me for following Jesus Christ. You can follow that other guy, the one who deceived Eve with this same exact lie, "Surely you will not die".
Those who are told "depart from Me ye cursed into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels...will go away into everlasting punishment" will be destroyed for they were not created for it...they were created for everlasting life, but they chose to abide in death.
All who say to the murderer "Go in peace it will be well with you" must share a measure of guilt, they failed to their duty and warn...it is no love to fail to warn.
All who say to the murderer "Go in peace it will be well with you" must share a measure of guilt, they failed to their duty and warn...it is no love to fail to warn.
Excuse me, but I have not done this, if you accuse me of this, you have to give proof supporting your baseless accusation. Everything I've posted has been backed up by clear undeniable scripture. Your accusation is completely false.