You just make this stuff up as you go, don't you?
Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?
- Thread starter Timotheos
- Start date
You just make this stuff up as you go, don't you?
Okay, I repent.
Now can you show me where you posted the verse that says "People go to hell when they die where they are tortured alive forever while they are dead"?
Thanks a lot.
The Bible says "Whoever believes in Him will not PERISH but will have eternal life."
You are unwilling to subject your belief to scripture.
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God's Truth
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There is scripture that says that. I have shown you those scriptures, but you deny it.
God's Truth
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You are blind to the truth too.
Yeah, I'm blind to made up truth based on fables and myths.
Ben Masada
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No Timotheos, there is nowhere in the Tanach about hell-fire as a punishment in the afterlife. But by the same token, there is nowhere in the Tanach that a person will get eternal life by believing in Jesus. On the contrary, eternal life was an attribute denied man because he could not live forever. Only God is eternal. If you read Genesis 3:22, man was banished from the Garden of Eden to prevent him from eating of the tree of life and live forever. That's due to the logical principle that every thing which had a beginning must have an end.
Ben Masada
New member
I think differently. One does not die because he or she sinned but because he or she was born. The wages of sin is suffering while still living . Logically, many babies die without having even committed a single sin.
Their suffering is usually due to the natural law of cause and effect or misjudgment of care takers.
This thread is about whether or not the doctrine of eternal torture is true according to the Bible. I believe in the resurrection of Jesus Christ, and the resurrection of the dead. I believe that babies who died sinless will be resurrected to eternal life, along with everyone who has had their sins forgiven by Jesus Christ. I believe that those who have rejected Jesus Christ's offer of forgiveness of sins will also be resurrected, but their sin remains so they must pay the wages of sin themselves, so they will die again after they are resurrected. The wages of sin is death.
I deny that you have ever posted a verse from the Bible that says "People go to hell when they die where they are tortured alive forever while they are dead", but I think that you are too stubborn to admit this.
You have posted verses that didn't say "People go to hell when they die where they are tortured alive forever while they are dead", but those verses do not prove that "People go to hell when they die where they are tortured alive forever while they are dead".
I believe that the wages of sin is death, because Romans 6:23 says "For the wages of sin is death,"
I believe that the wicked shall perish, because Psalms 37:20 says "The wicked shall perish"
I believe what the Bible says and I don't believe made up stories that aren't supported by what the Bible says.
Hold on, Timotheos, you just said the wages of sin is death and that is true, Paul supports your statement. However, now you are claiming that the wages of sin is multiple deaths. There is no scriptural support for that claim.
For example, let's say for the sake of discussion that you bought a car with borrowed money. That borrowed money is a debt. Are you saying that once you pay the debt that you are going to be required to pay it again? Are you going to pay the debt the second time, which would be analogous to a second death? My experience has been that once I pay a debt it is paid and I longer owe the debt, I'm free of the debt.
No, God does not double bill for sin.
For he that is dead is freed from sin. (Romans 6:7)
Those in the second resurrection are free of sin, God does not double bill for sin. They will have paid the penalty for sin and the debt is cleared, they don't have to pay it again a second time.
Jesus said, "I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance." So does that mean since he didn't call the righteous that they lose their opportunity for salvation?
For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.
(1 Corinthians 1:26)
(1 Corinthians 1:26)
What? Are you thinking God is going to resurrect the wise and mighty and noble people just so he can kill them? Yuck.
Does being wise and mighty and noble person cause a person to forfeit salvation?
And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. (Revelation 20:12)
Nope, the great men and women of history whom God never called will have their opportunity for eternal life.
Everyone gets a chance at salvation, but not everyone gets a chance at the first resurrection.
Did I mention that God does not double bill for sin?
God's Truth
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The blind will not find it.
God's Truth
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You do not believe the scriptures. You have no understanding.
Levolor
New member
Obviously everyone here posting is sighted. I realize that you are speaking about spiritual blindness, however, the request was just for the book, chapter and verse that says what you assert, specifically that: "There is scripture that says that."
Can you prove yourself?
I'm surprised that you have read the Bible and haven't seen anything about the resurrection of the body or the second death. There is no "double bill". Dead is Dead, and Alive is Alive. If I die, I am not concerned, because Jesus Christ will resurrect me from death. If I didn't know Jesus Christ and I died, I would have major problems. When I am resurrected (If I didn't know Jesus) I would still be required to pay the penalty for my sins, which the Bible says is death. My life would not last forever as the lives of those who had their sins forgiven. I would then die the second death, and be dead forever. I wouldn't be "doubly-dead". Just merely dead, which is the wages of sin.
I suppose I should tell you that I am not blind. I have 20/20 vision. Since I turned 45, I need reading glasses. If you wish, I can send you the results of my next vision checkup.
I think this "blind" business is simply name calling. If you want to engage in such business, why don't you comment on my male pattern baldness? At least then you would be accurate in your put-downs.