ECT IS MATT 19:28 TRUE !!

Danoh

New member
Both.

Interesting how seed is both singular and collective in English and Hebrew.

The seed of Abraham is the collective body of many (plural) believers, Jew and Gentile, who, following the effectual call of the Spirit, are, by grace, through faith, placed into the (singular) mystical body of Christ. He is the (singular) fulfillment of the promise. We are the (plural) heirs of that same promise having been grafted in; adopted, as God's sons. Unless we are Abraham's sons, we cannot legally be heirs of the promise, and yet Paul says we are by our standing in Christ.

Gal 4:7KJV

Gal 3:28-29KJV

John 12: 23-24KJV

Your stated view is understood as such by many a MADist.

We simply do not agree that is what the Scripture teaches in that.

Yours being the "one size fits all" God's children, that is the view of the Reformed School.

In this, you and such as IP, and so on, are on the same page.

But it is not the basic view within Mid-Acts Dispensationalism, in general, more or less.

Which is basically the view on the part of most, that on the one hand, the seed refers to those of Abraham's seed who were of faith before...Israel fell.

The Twelve and their converts.

While on the other, the seed also refers to a different group of Believer's comprised of those of Abraham's seed who believed after...Israel fell, together with those Gentiles who believed after said fall.

The former is the Israel of God.

The latter is the Body of Christ.

Members of both groups of which were once on this earth back in the 1st Century: the former diminishing away with God's turn from Israel; the latter increasing, unto this very day...

Romans 5:8
 

George Affleck

TOL Subscriber
Your stated view is understood as such by many a MADist.

We simply do not agree that is what the Scripture teaches in that.

Yours being the "one size fits all" God's children, that is the view of the Reformed School.

In this, you and such as IP, and so on, are on the same page.

But it is not the basic view within Mid-Acts Dispensationalism, in general, more or less.

Which is basically the view on the part of most, that on the one hand, the seed refers to those of Abraham's seed who were of faith before...Israel fell.

The Twelve and their converts.

While on the other, the seed also refers to a different group of Believer's comprised of those of Abraham's seed who believed after...Israel fell, together with those Gentiles who believed after said fall.

The former is the Israel of God.

The latter is the Body of Christ.

Members of both groups of which were once on this earth back in the 1st Century: the former diminishing away with God's turn from Israel; the latter increasing, unto this very day...

Romans 5:8

Well stated. I respect your view.

I am always brought back to how small the varied differences are between believers. I won't say insignificant.
They are differing points of view to be sure but they are never basic to redemption.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
The land will be the new heavens and the new earth and spiritual Israel will occupy it.

No, the land will be the land which the LORD gave to Jacob (Ez.37:25) and that land will be destroyed sometime after the 1000 year reign of Christ on the earth:

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved...Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness"
(2 Pet.3:10-11, 13).​

"And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest"
(Heb.1:10-11).​
 

DAN P

Well-known member
Your stated view is understood as such by many a MADist.

We simply do not agree that is what the Scripture teaches in that.

Yours being the "one size fits all" God's children, that is the view of the Reformed School.

In this, you and such as IP, and so on, are on the same page.

But it is not the basic view within Mid-Acts Dispensationalism, in general, more or less.

Which is basically the view on the part of most, that on the one hand, the seed refers to those of Abraham's seed who were of faith before...Israel fell.

The Twelve and their converts.

While on the other, the seed also refers to a different group of Believer's comprised of those of Abraham's seed who believed after...Israel fell, together with those Gentiles who believed after said fall.

The former is the Israel of God.

The latter is the Body of Christ.

Members of both groups of which were once on this earth back in the 1st Century: the former diminishing away with God's turn from Israel; the latter increasing, unto this very day...

Romans 5:8

Hi danoh , and is Eph 3:9 a ONE SHOE FITS ALL ??


dan p
 

DAN P

Well-known member
Well stated. I respect your view.

I am always brought back to how small the varied differences are between believers. I won't say insignificant.
They are differing points of view to be sure but they are never basic to redemption.

Hi and all have to remember that as dispensationalist , our FOCUS is in Eph 3:9 and that is the starting point for all believers in the MYSTERY , Rom 16:25 and 26 !!

Take that to the BANK !!

dan p
 

andyc

New member
Hi and all have to remember that as dispensationalist , our FOCUS is in Eph 3:9 and that is the starting point for all believers in the MYSTERY , Rom 16:25 and 26 !!

Take that to the BANK !!

dan p


All christians focus on the revealed mystery of salvation without circumcision and obedience to the mosaic law.
 

andyc

New member
No, the land will be the land which the LORD gave to Jacob (Ez.37:25) and that land will be destroyed sometime after the 1000 year reign of Christ on the earth:

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved...Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness"
(2 Pet.3:10-11, 13).​

"And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest"
(Heb.1:10-11).​

No. According to the Hebrew writer, the only kingdom that will remain is an unmade eternal kingdom. You really should learn to understand the old testament through the light of the new.
 

DAN P

Well-known member
All christians focus on the revealed mystery of salvation without circumcision and obedience to the mosaic law.


Hi and ALSO without water Baptism , Tongues , Prophecies and gift of Knowledge and Repentance as Repentance is WORKS 1 Cor 13:8 and ACTS 26:20 !!

dan p
 

DAN P

Well-known member
No. According to the Hebrew writer, the only kingdom that will remain is an unmade eternal kingdom. You really should learn to understand the old testament through the light of the new.

Hi and gives us a verse where it says that ??

dan p
 

andyc

New member
Heb 12:26-29
but now He has promised, saying, "Yet once more I shake not only the earth, but also heaven." Now this, "Yet once more," indicates the removal of those things that are being shaken, as of things that are made, that the things which cannot be shaken may remain. Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. For our God is a consuming fire.


And so anyone with half a brain will quickly understand that God is not only going to shake the earth, but the entire created universe (heaven). The Hebrew writer obviously isn't referring to God's heaven, as this is an eternal realm.
Everything created is being removed, so that only the things not created remain. If we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, it is not a created kingdom, as all things made are being removed. Therefore the kingdom being received is eternal.

You guys don't read your bibles, do you ?
 

andyc

New member
Hi and ALSO without water Baptism , Tongues , Prophecies and gift of Knowledge and Repentance as Repentance is WORKS 1 Cor 13:8 and ACTS 26:20 !!

dan p

Nowhere does the bible call these works. They are fruits.
 

DAN P

Well-known member
Nowhere does the bible call these works. They are fruits.


Hi and in Acts 26:20 Repentance is called WORKS !!

And in Matt 3:8 and word FRUITS is WORKS to prove you have repentance !!

The other that are in the post are gifts in 1 Cor 13:8 were the gifts given to Israel and to Gentiles in the early assembly !!

dan p
 

DAN P

Well-known member
Water baptism is a fruit?



Hi and andyc problem is Acts 26:20 and Matt 3:8 and needs to read the Greek text and compares other verse that will solve it for him and has to look up the Greek WORK / ERGON and see it's meaning !!

dan p
 

WatchmanOnTheWall

New member
Hi to all and Matt 19:28 reads , And Jesus said unto them , Verily I say unto you , That ye which have followed me , in the REGENERATION when the Son of Man SHALL SIT in the throne of

His glory , ye also SHALL SIT upon 12 thrones , JUDGING the 12 tribes of Israel !!

#1 The second Greek verb I SAY / EIPON is in the Present tense and places the action in Jesus earthly ministry !!

#2 . The fifth verb is SHALL SIT / KATHIZO is in the FUTURE TENSE which places the sitting of the 12 apostles , DURING the Millennial Kingdom !!~

#3, Those that followed Jesus , the 12 , will be in the REGENERATION /PALINGENSIS which means in

the RECREATION or MAKING ANEW as written in Isa 11:5-9 and Rom 8:20-22 and is that not what the apostles were praying for , THY KINGDOM COME and no one has a KINGDOM with out having a LAND to RULE !!

This then means there will be a LAND that Israel will OCCUPY !

dan p

Of course it's true and will start in the 1000 year reign and will continue after God makes the new heaven and earth. However, the first resurrection (or Catching away) is for only SOME of the dead and living, not everyone. We are told some information about the first Resurrection group:

Revelation 20:4
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshipped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

The first resurrection group will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years on Earth. In Revelation 4:4 John saw thrones for those who have authority to judge, this refers to the 24 elders:

Revelation 4:4
Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty-four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads.

12 of these Elders will be the Apostles who will judge the 12 tribes of Israel:

Matthew 19:28
Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

John saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God who had not worshipped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands who come to life and reign with Christ for the thousand years. This refers to the 144,000:

Revelation 7:3-4
3“Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” 4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.

144,000 divided by 12 is 6000 which is how many there is in a legion. Each of the 12 tribes will be judged by one Apostle and one Prophet of God making up the 24 Elders, as this verse tells us:

Ephesians 2:19-22
19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, 20 built on the foundation of the APOSTLES and PROPHETS, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22 And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

Along with the two Witness; Elijah and Moses, who will sit at Jesus' right and left, and along with the 24 Elders sitting around His throne, and the 144,000, this will make up Christ's government:

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders.

This government will rule over the Earth during the Millennial reign as it says in Revelation 20:5-6, and from the verses below we know that the first Resurrection will happen at Jesus Second coming after the tribulation:

1 Thessalonians 4;16-17
16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

At the end of the 1000 years after Satan is released and destroyed by God, the great multitude is resurrected:

Revelation 7:9
After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

Some will rise to everlasting life and go to Heaven, the rest to everlasting condemnation and go to Hell:

Daniel 12:2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

This is when we will all receive our final eternal judgement and rewards:

Revelation 20:11-12
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

The first resurrection is only for the 144,000 everyone else will have to wait 1000 years. After this Christ's government will continue to reign from heaven and over the new earth.
 

andyc

New member
Hi and in Acts 26:20 Repentance is called WORKS !!

And in Matt 3:8 and word FRUITS is WORKS to prove you have repentance !!

The other that are in the post are gifts in 1 Cor 13:8 were the gifts given to Israel and to Gentiles in the early assembly !!

dan p

Everything comes as gifts, but when you exercise the gifts, you are bearing fruit. When a person stops doing what is wrong, and starts doing what is right, they are bearing the fruit of a changed heart.
Madists don't want to change, and so they cling to false doctrine because they love sin, and twist scripture as an excuse to live in it.
 

Right Divider

Body part
Everything comes as gifts, but when you exercise the gifts, you are bearing fruit. When a person stops doing what is wrong, and starts doing what is right, they are bearing the fruit of a changed heart.
Madists don't want to change, and so they cling to false doctrine because they love sin, and twist scripture as an excuse to live in it.
Lying is a SIN handy andy. You just lied, so I guess that your change of heart will be sometime in the future.
 
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