Theology Club: Is MAD doctrine correct?

[heir]

All consistent with Acts 2 disp views or normative NT theology. They do not prove MAD at all (exegesis, not eisegesis, get it?).

You lie. If Paul's gospel was a mystery kept secret since the world began (and the scriptures say it was Romans 16:25 KJV), but now (then) is made manifest...(Romans 16:26 KJV) then it WAS not made manifest before that!

Paul wrote that his gospel was a mystery for had the princes of this world known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory (1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV). That's what the scripture saith. You make Paul a liar, but Paul spoke the truth in Christ (1 Timothy 2:7 KJV). You're a liar.

 

[heir]

Virtually all Christians through the centuries see Acts 2 as the start of the Church

Pentecost was a Jewish holy day and had nothing to do with the church, the Body of Christ.

 

[heir]

There is no other way to be saved after the cross than grace by faith in the person and work of Christ. MAD says Acts 2 does not teach this. You are wrong (read it slowly).

Where does Peter preach the good news that Christ died for our sins in Acts 2?

Show in Acts 2 where Peter preached salvation by grace through faith in the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ.|

SCRIPTURE PLEASE!

 

[Nick M]

Together, they stood against false Judaizers/teachers (Acts 15), but MAD makes the false gospel a true gospel (circ vs uncirc)?!

Acts 15

4 And when they had come to Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders; and they reported all things that God had done with them. 5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.”

You have had this exact exchange with StP, myself and others many many times. And you wonder why Sozo rightly tells you to rot in hell.

 

[heir]

I've had enough of godrulz for the night. I'm out.

 

[Lighthouse]

MAD thinks it alone is Pauline. This is nonsense. MAD hyper-divides Scripture and elevates Paul above everything making him compete with other inspired writers. Petrine, Pauline, Johannine, Christ, etc. complement, not contradict. This is Spirit-inspired NT unity undermined by MAD error.

Until you start backing up your argument with some evidence no one has any reason to listen to you. You're nothing more than a lunatic foaming at the mouth.

Still don't get it do you.

No he does not, and he never will. He's too stupid to ever have the brain capacity for it to click.

Can you outline the specifics of the "Jewish gospel" and the "Gentile gospel" Where are they defined and differentiated in scripture such that a reader not already trained in MAD can see it?

Here's an experiment: read the NT from Acts to the end without reading any of Paul's, or anything including Paul, and see if you can find much of what you believe today is essential to the gospel. Skip Acts 10 as well, since it has no bearing on anything other than itself and passages dealing with Paul.

Where does Peter preach the good news that Christ died for our sins in Acts 2?

Show in Acts 2 where Peter preached salvation by grace through faith in the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ.|

SCRIPTURE PLEASE!

He won't even try to offer any.

 

[godrulz]

You lie. If Paul's gospel was a mystery kept secret since the world began (and the scriptures say it was Romans 16:25 KJV), but now (then) is made manifest...(Romans 16:26 KJV) then it WAS not made manifest before that!

Paul wrote that his gospel was a mystery for had the princes of this world known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory (1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV). That's what the scripture saith. You make Paul a liar, but Paul spoke the truth in Christ (1 Timothy 2:7 KJV). You're a liar.

The mystery was that Jew and Gentile would become one in the Church through faith in Christ. This was not an object of Old Testament prophecy.

Paul's statements do not mean he was the first or only one to get the gospel. Other statements would preclude this possibility. Try reading the whole NT without MAD glasses. Bullinger, Stam, Enyart, Feldick are not in the same league as far more credible NT experts.

I am not a liar. I do not make Paul a liar. I disagree with your misinterpretations of Scripture that you think are rightly dividing (try hacking).

 

[godrulz]

Pentecost was a Jewish holy day and had nothing to do with the church, the Body of Christ.

It was a Christian Pentecost. The shadows and types of Judaism were being given fuller fulfillment, meaning, reality in Christ.

The Spirit came at an opportune time to birth the Church because there was a large crowd gathered at this time.

I get tired of hearing the same vapid arguments from MAD that I have responded to for years.

 

[Nick M]

Paul is asking (privately) Peter and James whether or not Paul's gospel was in error. Titus is Paul's test case. If Peter and James insist that Titus be circumcised then Paul would have been wrong.

But it was the Judaizers who did not have apostolic authority that were wrong. No where does it say in the word that Peter and James were corrected by Paul.

2 + 2 +2 =6. Therefore 2 +2 + 2 = 9?

Fascinating you can read the words on the page right, then say it wrong.

4 And when they had come to Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders; and they reported all things that God had done with them. 5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.”

Galatians 2

4 And this occurred because of false brethren secretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage),

He went to Jerusalem because spies came to see what they were doing. Cause and effect. 2nd grade grammar and reading.

No where does it say in the word that Peter and James were corrected by Paul.

Galatians 2

11 Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed;12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision.

So much for that.

13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.

 

[godrulz]

Where does Peter preach the good news that Christ died for our sins in Acts 2?

Show in Acts 2 where Peter preached salvation by grace through faith in the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ.|

SCRIPTURE PLEASE!

Read the chapter. He points to the person and work of Christ (MAD thinks the resurrection is not mentioned, but it is). The cross is the only basis for the gospel and Christ alone can save (works of your circ gospel make it a false gospel that adds nothing to his shed blood). Paul articulated things in more detail, but did not invent the gospel.

There is no basis for 1000s being saved and added to the church apart from His finished work.

If you cannot see this Sunday School truth, I really cannot help you.

 

[godrulz]

Until you start backing up your argument with some evidence no one has any reason to listen to you. You're nothing more than a lunatic foaming at the mouth.


No he does not, and he never will. He's too stupid to ever have the brain capacity for it to click.


Here's an experiment: read the NT from Acts to the end without reading any of Paul's, or anything including Paul, and see if you can find much of what you believe today is essential to the gospel. Skip Acts 10 as well, since it has no bearing on anything other than itself and passages dealing with Paul.


He won't even try to offer any.

Acts 2 You ignore any Scripture I give you or dispute the exegesis of greater minds than both of us.

Nick (you sometimes), sozo, etc. think I am going to hell despite a faith in Christ alone for salvation. I will waste only so much time with KJVO, Westboro, MAD, Calvinistic, etc. arrogant idiots.

 

[Lighthouse]

Where does Peter preach the good news that Christ died for our sins in Acts 2?

Show in Acts 2 where Peter preached salvation by grace through faith in the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ.|

SCRIPTURE PLEASE!

He won't even try to offer any.

Read the chapter. He points to the person and work of Christ (MAD thinks the resurrection is not mentioned, but it is). The cross is the only basis for the gospel and Christ alone can save (works of your circ gospel make it a false gospel that adds nothing to his shed blood). Paul articulated things in more detail, but did not invent the gospel.

There is no basis for 1000s being saved and added to the church apart from His finished work.

If you cannot see this Sunday School truth, I really cannot help you.

BOOM! Called it!

Acts 2 You ignore any Scripture I give you or dispute the exegesis of greater minds than both of us.

Nick (you sometimes), sozo, etc. think I am going to hell despite a faith in Christ alone for salvation. I will waste only so much time with KJVO, Westboro, MAD, Calvinistic, etc. arrogant idiots.

What does Acts 2 have to do with anything?

 

[godrulz]

BOOM! Called it!


What does Acts 2 have to do with anything?

Over the years, I have gone in detail and you reject what I say. This is a minor issue and moot point since your supposed circ gospel was for a limited time and group and we are all fully Pauline now. There are bigger issues I deal with on other forums that really matter, unlike this one (your hobby horse, not mine).

 

[Nick M]

What does Acts 2 have to do with anything?

He wants to be seen performing miracles in front of men in the synagogue and on the corner. Babbling in his phony demon inspired "tongue" that nobody understands.

 

[heir]

Read the chapter. He points to the person and work of Christ

Peter didn't preached that Christ died for our sins in Acts! He delivered a murder indictment to all the house of Israel!

Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Acts 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

And again,

Acts 3:12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

Acts 3:14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;

Acts 3:15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

(MAD thinks the resurrection is not mentioned, but it is).

That's misinformation. Peter preached resurrection in Acts 2 and 3. He preached the gospel of God; WHO Jesus Christ is and that God raised Him from the dead (Romans 1:1-4 KJV). Here again, you have the opportunity to see from the scripture things that are excellent, things that differ.

According to Peter, WHY was the Lord resurrected?

Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

According to Paul, this is WHY the Lord was resurrected!


Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.


Things that are different are not the same!

(works of your circ gospel make it a false gospel that adds nothing to his shed blood).

Matthew 10:22 KJV, Matthew 23:2-3 KJV, Luke 18:22 KJV, Acts 2:42 KJV, 44-45, James 2:20 KJV

Paul articulated things in more detail,

Nope. We've been over it again and again and here it is again Romans 16:25-26 KJV, 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV, Galatians 1:11-12 KJV.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

There is no basis for 1000s being saved and added to the church apart from His finished work.

Those in the church at Jerusalem were not saved

Acts 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

 

[Nick M]

Peter didn't preached that Christ died for our sins in Acts! He delivered a murder indictment to all the house of Israel!

Did you check other versions or commentaries?

 

[Lighthouse]

Over the years, I have gone in detail and you reject what I say. This is a minor issue and moot point since your supposed circ gospel was for a limited time and group and we are all fully Pauline now. There are bigger issues I deal with on other forums that really matter, unlike this one (your hobby horse, not mine).

You have never exegeted the scripture passages in question, and if this isn't that important to you why do you continue to post in these threads?

 

[Shasta]

Here's an experiment: read the NT from Acts to the end without reading any of Paul's, or anything including Paul, and see if you can find much of what you believe today is essential to the gospel. Skip Acts 10 as well, since it has no bearing on anything other than itself and passages dealing with Paul.

All I have been asking is a detailed description of the supposed two gospels. I do not know why I should be asked to go figure it out for myself. All of you have presented this as your position. I do not think it is unreasonable to ask questions about it.

I believe it is a mistake to assume that the relatively few sermons recorded in the book of Acts prior to Paul represent the totality of what the Apostles knew and were teaching. There were at least twelve full time apostles "on staff" who collectively retained the compendium of all that Jesus taught. They may not have understood all the implications of this knowledge or the depths of every mystery but they did understand the essentials.

Here is what the Twelve knew.

1. Jesus had told them many times He would suffer, die, be buried and, after three days rise again (Matt. 12:40 Matt 16:21 Matt 26:61 John 2:19-22) They were eyewitnesses of this and of His ascension

2. The idea of Christ being the ransom, the blood payment for sin had been taught to them not by Paul but by Jesus during His earthly ministry (Matthew 20:26-28). Peter and John wrote about this in their letters (1 Peter 1:18-20, 1 Peter 2:24, 1 John 1:7, 1 John 4:10)


3. After the Resurrection Jesus walked them through ALL the scriptures teaching them about what had prophesied and fulfilled
(Luke 24:44)

4. He also opened their minds so they could have spiritual understanding of those things (Luke 24:45)

5. "All the scriptures" would certainly have included key Messianic prophecies like Isaiah 53:4-6 . This passage shows that the death of Christ would bring about the forgiveness of sin and bring peace with God.

6. That His work on the cross would bring about the New Birth was taught by Jesus and passed on by the Apostles (John 3:3,1 Peter 1:23, 1 Peter 3:18-22, 1 John 1:7)

7. The disciples ,in fact, were the first to experience the New Birth (John 20:22)

8. John the Baptist had revealed to several of them that Jesus was the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world (John 1:29). What would the symbol of the Passover lamb have meant to these Jews once Jesus work was complete and they were filled with the Spirit?


9. In their going through the Bible they would have certainly paused to focus on Jeremiah 31:31-3 Here, Jeremiah announces that God would make a new covenant with Israel which would result (among other things) in the forgiveness of sins.

10. This truth was further reinforced by the institution of the Covenant Supper "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you. (Luke 22:20). which was to be practiced until the Day of the Lord.

Other truths about Christ, his Divine origin and nature, His supreme authority His ultimate role in judging mankind was also in the Gospels.

11. I would say that overall had a full gospel that was powerful to save people. What took them a while to understand is that this New Covenant was going not just to Israel but to the Gentiles. Still the same message or gospel was the truth that would save them too. Paul said he preached Christ Crucified, to both Jew and Gentile – one message delivered to two populations not two messages to two separate groups (I Corinthians 1:22-25)

12. God has invested the power to save solely in THE "message of the cross:" (I Corinthians 1:18) which comprises the "good news" (or gospel) prophesied and fulfilled in Jesus.

 

[Nick M]

All I have been asking is a detailed description of the supposed two gospels. I do not know why I should be asked to go figure it out for myself. All of you have presented this as your position. I do not think it is unreasonable to ask questions about it.

This is like claiming you don't know aCW's position on sodomy being a crime. You are like the shaggy hip hop song....it wasn't me when in doubt, just pretend like it didn't happen.

 

[way 2 go]

All I have been asking is a detailed description of the supposed two gospels. I do not know why I should be asked to go figure it out for myself. All of you have presented this as your position. I do not think it is unreasonable to ask questions about it.

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