IS M.A.D. DOCTRINE NECESSARY IN ORDER TO RECEIVE ETERNAL LIFE?

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Clete

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The scripture is clear as to why Paul went there--

Act 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
Act 15:2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
I could legitimately say in response to this...

Thank you for conceding the debate.

But I know that somehow, in your mind, you've done the opposite. :bang:

Pauls ministry was identical which is why the scripture says--

Gal 1:23 But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed. Gal 1:24 And they glorified God in me.

Do you really believe that the risen Lord taught the 12 Apostles a different gospel to that which He taught Paul?
If you do, and you do then you believe the 12 Apostles are cursed.
You'll never understand any of this by making such arguments. You are arguing argainst the existence of color from within a blind mans world.

My point is not to suggesting that you're blind, although you are to these ideas, it is simply to point out that saying that you are basically arguing that my paradigm makes no sense from within your paradigm paradigm. That just isn't a rational argument!

Just think it through what your point here suggests for a second. You are implying that Jesus (God Himself) came down and spent three years training His apostles and teaching them what to believe and how to teach others. He then told them to go into the whole world preaching everything that He had taught them (He taught them to follow the Law, by the way) and gave to them all authority to act in His absence. They appointed a new apostle to replace Judas who God endorsed directly by indwelling all twelve with the Holy Sprit on the Day of Pentecost (a Jewish feast day - by the way). They then proceed to do as instructed and some time later (probably about a year) God realized twelve wasn't enough and that there was a thirteenth apostle needed and so rather than sending Saul to the Twelve (or the Twelve to him) and have him accept the gospel the old fashioned way (by hearing the word of God preached) and then to have the Twelve make him an apostle, which He had given them the authority to do, He decided instead to come down and covert Saul miraculously and in Person on the Domascus Road and then reveal to the gospel to him by direct divine revelation.

That's what you're implying!

And yet you also maintain that there was nothing special about Paul or his ministry except the he went to the gentiles. That makes no sense even from within your own paradigm.


I'm not going to address the point about the other apostles being cursed accept to say that it isn't true and that such an objection only makes sense from within your own paradigm. You are effectively begging the question but I don't have near the time it would take to untangle that knot.

Pauls ministry is evidence that all may receive the same revelation from Heaven, and that all apostles since were taught the same way, and also lived and were/are persecuted the same also.
Just how many apostles do think there were?

Paul never got in Peters face except concerning his separating himself from the Gentile brethren, to eat with the Jewish brethren.
He wasn't just seperating himself, he was treating them as unclean, he was following the Mosaic Law, LA.

Something you Madists still try to do in promoting a difference which God does not recognize.

LA
This discussion is going rather well. Don't screw it up by saying stupid things.


Resting in Him,
Clete
 

Grosnick Marowbe

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I could legitimately say in response to this...

Thank you for conceding the debate.

But I know that somehow, in your mind, you've done the opposite. :bang:


You'll never understand any of this by making such arguments. You are arguing argainst the existence of color from within a blind mans world.

My point is not to suggesting that you're blind, although you are to these ideas, it is simply to point out that saying that you are basically arguing that my paradigm makes no sense from within your paradigm paradigm. That just isn't a rational argument!

Just think it through what your point here suggests for a second. You are implying that Jesus (God Himself) came down and spent three years training His apostles and teaching them what to believe and how to teach others. He then told them to go into the whole world preaching everything that He had taught them (He taught them to follow the Law, by the way) and gave to them all authority to act in His absence. They appointed a new apostle to replace Judas who God endorsed directly by indwelling all twelve with the Holy Sprit on the Day of Pentecost (a Jewish feast day - by the way). They then proceed to do as instructed and some time later (probably about a year) God realized twelve wasn't enough and that there was a thirteenth apostle needed and so rather than sending Saul to the Twelve (or the Twelve to him) and have him accept the gospel the old fashioned way (by hearing the word of God preached) and then to have the Twelve make him an apostle, which He had given them the authority to do, He decided instead to come down and covert Saul miraculously and in Person on the Domascus Road and then reveal to the gospel to him by direct divine revelation.

That's what you're implying!

And yet you also maintain that there was nothing special about Paul or his ministry except the he went to the gentiles. That makes no sense even from within your own paradigm.


I'm not going to address the point about the other apostles being cursed accept to say that it isn't true and that such an objection only makes sense from within your own paradigm. You are effectively begging the question but I don't have near the time it would take to untangle that knot.


Just how many apostles do think there were?


He wasn't just seperating himself, he was treating them as unclean, he was following the Mosaic Law, LA.


This discussion is going rather well. Don't screw it up by saying stupid things.


Resting in Him,
Clete

She's both, arrogant, and comfortable within the confines of her own false doctrines. She wishes to remain there.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

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For those who don't accept the doctrine of Mid-Acts Dispensationalism, how do you account for the apparent contradictions in what Paul teaches and what Christ and the other Apostles preached?
 

jamie

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how do you account for the apparent contradictions in what Paul teaches and what Christ and the other Apostles preached?

In Paul's message to the Roman congregation he taught burial by water. In Paul's message to the Corinthian congregation he taught it is the Spirit that immerses a person into the one body of the one Lord. How is that different? Or is it?

Either way we all drink of one Spirit just as the Hebrews did when Christ brought them out of Egypt.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

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In Paul's message to the Roman congregation he taught burial by water. In Paul's message to the Corinthian congregation he taught it is the Spirit that immerses a person into the one body of the one Lord. How is that different? Or is it?

Either way we all drink of one Spirit just as the Hebrews did when Christ brought them out of Egypt.

I don't understand what you're trying to say? Please clarify?
 

Clete

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She's both, arrogant, and comfortable within the confines of her own false doctrines. She wishes to remain there.

I don't doubt you but so long as her responses are rationally coherent and the questions she asks are relevant to what I've said then I'm happy to go through the exercise of engaging the discussion. She's not the only one who reads these posts.
 

patrick jane

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In Paul's message to the Roman congregation he taught burial by water. In Paul's message to the Corinthian congregation he taught it is the Spirit that immerses a person into the one body of the one Lord. How is that different? Or is it?

Either way we all drink of one Spirit just as the Hebrews did when Christ brought them out of Egypt.
Burial by water? :idunno:
 

jamie

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Burial by water? :idunno:

In Romans 6:4 Paul said, "Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."

Our old person dies in the water symbolizing the death of the old person so we can walk with Christ in a new life, a forever life.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

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In Romans 6:4 Paul said, "Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."

Our old person dies in the water symbolizing the death of the old person so we can walk with Christ in a new life, a forever life.


Do you have any proof that Paul was speaking of "Water baptism?" Paul taught Holy Spirit baptism. 1 Corinthians 12:13 "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Paul said in 1 Corinthians 1:17 "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect."
 

Grosnick Marowbe

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Paul said there is only one baptism, would that be with water?

No. It speaks of the time when the Holy Spirit baptizes (not with water) a believer into the Body of Christ. The Israelites walking through the Red Sea was a form of baptism. There are different baptism's, however. today, the only baptism performed, is by the Holy Spirit.
 

jamie

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No. It speaks of the time when the Holy Spirit baptizes (not with water) a believer into the Body of Christ. The Israelites walking through the Red Sea was a form of baptism. There are different baptism's, however. today, the only baptism performed, is by the Holy Spirit.

Those baptized by the Holy Spirit are buried in what?
 

Grosnick Marowbe

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Those baptized by the Holy Spirit are buried in what?

They are placed into the Body of Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:13 "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

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What does that have to do with death?

We can't be judged until after we die.

2 Corinthians 5:10 states: "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." This is the ONLY judgment seat the believers must stand before. It's not for condemnation, but, for rewards of what we did while we were in the flesh. The unbelievers will stand before God the Father as stated in Revelation 20:12 "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."

These are two separate judgments. One for condemnation for the unbelievers and the other for rewards for the believers. Christ will judge the believers for rewards and God the Father will judge for punishment/condemnation.
 

jamie

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and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."

That's true and salvation is by grace not by a person's works.

You can't be judged until after you die.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment.​
 
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