Is gender identification changable?

[shagster01]

This is a question for people who buy into the idea that one gets to decide one's own gender identification.

Is it possible for a person to identify as a woman, go through life changes and realize she is now a man, and later on go back to being a woman again. Or are you supposed to pick an identity and roll with it?

In other words, if Bruce became Caitlyn, and Caitlyn later decides to be Bruce again, did this person actually keep changing genders, or was Bruce just a confused man all along?

Again, this question is for people who actually believe gender identification and biology are indeed seperate.

 

[shagster01]

I guess nobody knows. :idunno:

 

[glassjester]

I guess nobody knows. :idunno:

It's a good question.

Going with the Bruce Jenner example, if he "switches back," does that mean...

A) He was wrong about being a woman, and was actually a man all along?
B) He is wrong to switch back, and is actually still a woman?
C) He truly changed from a man to a woman to a man, but it wasn't a choice?
D) He truly changed from a man to a woman to a man, and he was free to choose each time?

 

[Rusha]

I guess nobody knows. :idunno:

There is no way anyone else outside of the person who is having the change *could* know. Because not everyone understands or relates to what the person in question is dealing with or going through doesn't mean their experience is any less real.

Bruce only represents himself, no one else. My biggest concern with Bruce is the fact that he didn't identify as a woman at a much younger age. To me it would seem that that would be something that would start early on.

 

[shagster01]

There is no way anyone else outside of the person who is having the change *could* know. Because not everyone understands or relates to what the person in question is dealing with or going through doesn't mean their experience is any less real.

Bruce only represents himself, no one else. My biggest concern with Bruce is the fact that he didn't identify as a woman at a much younger age. To me it would seem that that would be something that would start early on.

I guess I'm not asking for a specific judgement on a certain person, though it may have sounded that way.

What I want to know is generally can people honestly gender hop back and forth? And should society accept that?

 

[Rusha]

I guess I'm not asking for a specific judgement on a certain person, though it may have sounded that way.

What I want to know is generally can people honestly gender hop back and forth? And should society accept that?

IF they are gender hopping, I don't consider them as being someone who was ever truly transgender. Insofar as Bruce, I don't see him as being representative of all transgender. I, personally, never bought into his *change*.

 

[Tambora]

To my knowledge, no transgendered male to female has ever contained the ability to naturally conceive and deliver a child.

 

[Nick M]

If one has a surgeon remove it, he is still not female. You could still identify a male after that, even with heavy hormone treatment. The Y chromosome is the give away that the person is male.

 

[Crucible]

Bruce wasn't a different gender when he had children, in the Olympics, or otherwise in his media career. His marriages. All the way up to his 60's..

It's stupid that anyone should even consider that this person was a different gender in some sort of closet. He's living out a fantasy, plain and simple.

If anything, he's a shining example of the lie 'transgenderism' is.
And he gets a medal of courage?
lain:

 

[patrick jane]

There is no way anyone else outside of the person who is having the change *could* know. Because not everyone understands or relates to what the person in question is dealing with or going through doesn't mean their experience is any less real.

Bruce only represents himself, no one else. My biggest concern with Bruce is the fact that he didn't identify as a woman at a much younger age. To me it would seem that that would be something that would start early on.

That's because Bruce did it for the fame and publicity. We soaked it up like he planned or his publicist plans. It was a scam from the get go

 

[Crucible]

 

[rexlunae]

To my knowledge, no transgendered male to female has ever contained the ability to naturally conceive and deliver a child.

If they did, would it change your acceptance of them? Or is it just a question designed to make you seem falsely open-minded and accepting.

 

[rexlunae]

Is it possible for a person to identify as a woman, go through life changes and realize she is now a man, and later on go back to being a woman again.

Yes.

Or are you supposed to pick an identity and roll with it?

I don't see why. Seems arbitrary, and contrary to the notion of self-identification.

In other words, if Bruce became Caitlyn, and Caitlyn later decides to be Bruce again, did this person actually keep changing genders, or was Bruce just a confused man all along?

If that happened, it would reflect either some sort of fluidity that wasn't initially expressed publicly, or it would represent some sort of transition regret. Either are possible, although the rumors that have been circulating about it recently appear to be false.

Again, this question is for people who actually believe gender identification and biology are indeed seperate.

Are there people who idenitify was a gender that doesn't match their biological sex? Seems like this is a simple fact: there is a distinction. Whether you think they should is another question, but you can't deny the distinction.

 

[shagster01]

Are there people who idenitify was a gender that doesn't match their biological sex? Seems like this is a simple fact: there is a distinction. Whether you think they should is another question, but you can't deny the distinction.

Identifying as something doesn't automatically make it the truth or reality though.

My great grandmother had a stroke when I was a teenager. She was a German lady. But after the stroke she thought she was Russian. Not in a way where she was just getting words confused. She actually thought she was Russian. But even though she identified as that, she wasn't. She was still German. We just kinda laughed about it then. Wrong identification has now ceased to be funny.

 

[Nick M]

But after the stroke she thought she was Russian. Not in a way where she was just getting words confused. She actually thought she was Russian. But even though she identified as that, she wasn't. She was still German. We just kinda laughed about it then.

And you can see that no matter what a man claims, he is not a woman.

 

[Nick M]

 

[shagster01]

And you can see that no matter what a man claims, he is not a woman.

That was my point.

 

[rexlunae]

Identifying as something doesn't automatically make it the truth or reality though.

My great grandmother had a stroke when I was a teenager. She was a German lady. But after the stroke she thought she was Russian. Not in a way where she was just getting words confused. She actually thought she was Russian. But even though she identified as that, she wasn't. She was still German. We just kinda laughed about it then. Wrong identification has now ceased to be funny.

Interestingly, though, we let people change their nationality without a whole lot of controversy. Country of origin is an immutable fact, but you can change your affiliation. As it turns out, I'm a cis-national American.

 

[shagster01]

Interestingly, though, we let people change their nationality without a whole lot of controversy. Country of origin is an immutable fact, but you can change your affiliation. As it turns out, I'm a cis-national American.

Citizenship isn't declared on a whim. You can't just decide you are Canadian today and expect to get Canadian rights.

Or are you suggesting there should be lengthy paperwork and test processes to change gender like citizenship?

 

[ok doser]

Citizenship isn't declared on a whim.

:think:

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