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Lucifer rebelled. How come?
ECT Irresistible Grace (or efficacious grace)
- Thread starter Cross Reference
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Okay, since you refuse to retire ...
Ezekiel 28:12-19
12 “… Thus says the Lord GOD:
“You (Lucifer-Satan) were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering: the sardius,
topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes was prepared for you on the day you were created.
14 You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; you were on
the holy mountain of God; you walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you.
16 By the abundance of your trading you became filled with violence within, and you sinned;
therefore I cast you as a profane thing out of the mountain of God;
and I destroyed you, O covering cherub, from the midst of the fiery stones.
17 Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom for the sake
of your splendor; I cast you to the ground, I laid you before kings, that they might gaze at you.
18 You defiled your sanctuaries by the multitude of your iniquities,
by the iniquity of your trading; therefore I brought fire from your midst;
it devoured you, and I turned you to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all who saw you.
19 All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you;
you have become a horror, and shall be no more forever.”
Revelation 12:7-9
7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon;
and the dragon and his angels fought,
8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer.
9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan,
who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
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I am sorry, Zach, but, I was hoping for replies from those who can at least make a knowledgeable distinction between the heaven he was first cast out, first "fell from grace" and the one yet in the future he will fight to remain in, but again will lose the battle. You know, the heaven where he is the prince and power of the air we all breath; where he still able to "accuse the saints of God". I mention that part because, you didn't, which should have been an indicator, you don't understand.
Too bad for me. Perhaps there is someone else who can.
Some of the angels, including Satan, were created mutable and the rest were created immutable. Satan was the most beautiful of all the angels and in seeing his own beauty he felt he deserved honor and glory and the rest as they say is history.
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I don't follow any of that. Can you elaborate since we all know Lucifer was the perfect creation of God. Next to Jesus, "he was the man". . . . .
I'm not surprised to ''don't follow'' any of that.
beloved57
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All things go according to the Purpose of God. Eph 1:11
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Lucifers rebellion was after the counsel of Gods own will !
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Why be surprised? Commentary is only opinion.
I understand, but it's kinda late here. Maybe another day
please tell
That you call scriptural fact (truth) a commentary and therefore the opinion of man and by definition the doctrine of demons is hardly surprising either.
Why so cryptic?
What connection do you have in mind to this question and the "I" in the T.U.L.I.P. doctrines?
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Lucifer was created. God's grace was resisted. If you know who Lucifer was and what God's grace is, you should have an objective opinion about how God,s grace could have been resisted.
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I agree in part because I don't believe Adam wanted to come against God but rather acted stupidly in his choosing having been subjected to vain thinking [Rom 8:20] and succumbed to it rather than seek God for council. Vanity is man's proving ground purposed to get his allegiance to God sorted out. God puts a face on it with this to Cain:
"And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him."
Genesis 4:6-7 (KJV)
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I realize I will regret this Twister but it needs be asked:
What scripture do you believe for that "opinion".
What in the world are you talking about?
God's grace was never extended nor even offered to Lucifer!
Jesus died for man kind, not demons and devils. On what just basis could God have offered grace to Lucifer?
Besides, God's grace is resisted all the time! I really don't get your point. What's your point?
By the way, I don't mind leading questions here and there and I'm not apposed to discussing God's grace and Lucifer and whatever line of reasoning you have concerning the doctrine of Irresistible Grace but I will not waste time attempting to read your mind. I've asked a straight forward question and I'll get a straight forward answer or I'll simply bow out and let you waste someone else's time.
Resting in Him,
Clete
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If you understood that God's "Grace" is God's LIFE, you might perhaps understand what resisting it is all about, when considering His desire for man's allegiance. Problem is, you can't get beyond the "celebration of man's redemption", in your thinking to even desire to know why God even created you.
The entire canon.
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Then it should be no problem. You wrote the words. Explain them.