ECT If you want out of the deceptions of MAD read the rebuttal of Bullinger by Ironside.

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musterion

Well-known member
Peter preached the gospel before Paul ever got saved which included the D.B.R. grace etc.

Can you handle a serious question without dodging it or resorting to insults?

Why did the Lord bother to draft Saul/Paul to be the apostle He sent to the Gentiles, if (a) the 12 already had the same message that Paul preached and (b) the 12 would have gotten to ALL Gentiles eventually per the orders Christ gave them (the so-called Great Commission)? If you are correct, how was Paul's apostleship not completely redundant?

Can you give a serious, honest answer?
 

musterion

Well-known member
Progressive Revelation
Joel Finck

Scripture Reading: Romans 3:21
Two of the smallest words in the Bible actually carry the greatest impact of how we understand Scripture. These two words are "but now." While the Bible is the Word of God from cover to cover, it was not all given at once or to the same audience. What was spoken to one group of people in an earlier time may not directly apply to another group of people in later times. This is called the principle of "Progressive Revelation," and we find many examples of this in Scripture.

In Romans 3:21, the Apostle Paul writes, "But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets." At one time, the law of Moses played an integral part in righteousness. Not that the law itself could bring righteousness, it could not; but before the dispensation of the grace of God was committed to Paul (See Ephesians 3:1, 2), the law was God's prescribed method of demonstrating the righteousness which comes by faith. In other words, if a godly Jew under the law wanted to show that he believed God, there was only one way to do it: be in obedience to the law. Therefore, while the law did not bring righteousness, keeping the law went hand in hand with living a righteous life.

But according to Romans 3:21, God's righteousness is no longer associated with law-keeping. This is why Paul goes on to proclaim, "for ye are not under the law, but under grace" (Romans 6:14b). Those who do not recognize the principle of progressive revelation continue to draw people back under the law with its sabbaths and ordinances; but let us rather move on in grace!
 

dodge

New member
Can you handle a serious question without dodging it or resorting to insults?

Why did the Lord bother to draft Saul/Paul to be the apostle He sent to the Gentiles, if (a) the 12 already had the same message that Paul preached and (b) the 12 would have gotten to ALL Gentiles eventually per the orders Christ gave them (the so-called Great Commission)? If you are correct, how was Paul's apostleship not completely redundant?

Can you give a serious, honest answer?

Jesus said come unto me you that are heavy laden etc.

Why ? Jesus said He only lost one and that was the son of perdition i.e. Judas.

When anyone witness for and about Jesus they share the message that Jesus gave us all to share. Paul was one of many that bore witness to Jesus.

The matter of redundant has nothing to do with how God works. His message is proclaimed by whom He chooses and the message is His not their's.
 

musterion

Well-known member
Jesus said come unto me you that are heavy laden etc.

Why ? Jesus said He only lost one and that was the son of perdition i.e. Judas.

When anyone witness for and about Jesus they share the message that Jesus gave us all to share. Paul was one of many that bore witness to Jesus.

The matter of redundant has nothing to do with how God works. His message is proclaimed by whom He chooses and the message is His not their's.

You did not answer the question I asked.

Why did Christ even bother with Saul, spending years to prep him to go to Gentiles, when He'd already given the 12 the Great Commission which commanded them to eventually go to all Gentiles?

Why did Christ reveal a gospel directly to Paul when, according to you, He'd already revealed it to the 12?

Christ already had worldwide gospel ministry covered with the 12.

What was the point of using Paul?
 

Right Divider

Body part
You did not answer the question I asked.

Why did Christ even bother with Saul, spending years to prep him to go to Gentiles, when He'd already given the 12 the Great Commission which commanded them to eventually go to all Gentiles?

Why did Christ reveal a gospel directly to Paul when, according to you, He'd already revealed it to the 12?

Christ already had worldwide gospel ministry covered with the 12.

What was the point of using Paul?
Deceiver dodge does not have real answers to real questions.

He just constantly regurgitates his half-truths.
 

dodge

New member
You did not answer the question I asked.

Why did Christ even bother with Saul, spending years to prep him to go to Gentiles, when He'd already given the 12 the Great Commission which commanded them to eventually go to all Gentiles?

Why did Christ reveal a gospel directly to Paul when, according to you, He'd already revealed it to the 12?

Christ already had worldwide gospel ministry covered with the 12.

What was the point of using Paul?

1. I do not question why God did or does what He chooses because He is God not I.

2.Scripture clearly says that when Paul was saved he preached the faith he once sought to destroy. Jesus said when Paul was persecuting the early church , the one before Paul was even saved, that Paul was persecuting HIM,another words Paul was persecuting the BOC that he himself joined and preached their message AFTER he got saved.

3. I did answer your question you just did not like the answer.

4. The gospel was a progressive revelation in its understanding because everyone was so locked into the old covenant.
 

musterion

Well-known member
1. I do not question why God did or does what He chooses because He is God not I.

Didn't ask you to be God. Just asked you to answer a very simple question -- why Paul?

2.Scripture clearly says that when Paul was saved he preached the faith he once sought to destroy. Jesus said when Paul was persecuting the early church , the one before Paul was even saved, that Paul was persecuting HIM,another words Paul was persecuting the BOC that he himself joined and preached their message AFTER he got saved.

That doesn't explain why Paul essentially replaced the 12 in taking word of Christ to the Gentile world.

3. I did answer your question you just did not like the answer.

You did not answer it.

4. The gospel was a progressive revelation in its understanding because everyone was so locked into the old covenant.

That doesn't explain Paul's ministry replacing the 12's ministry to Gentiles under the Great Commission.

Listen, I'll let you off the hook. You have not answered the question because you don't know how to answer it. If you just say, "I don't know why God sent Paul instead of the 12," I'll leave it at that.
 

dodge

New member
musterion;5065085]Didn't ask you to be God. Just asked you to answer a very simple question -- why Paul?


Why not Paul is a better question. Having been raised in the strict Jewish life he was a perfect candidate to bring Jesus' gospel to the gentiles.


That doesn't explain why Paul essentially replaced the 12 in taking word of Christ to the Gentile world.

Paul did not replace anyone ! Paul was brought into salvation by the gospel of Jesus and joined God's team. It is not Paul's message or team it is God's.



You did not answer it.

Yes I did you just did not like the answer because it does not fit into MAD deception.



That doesn't explain Paul's ministry replacing the 12's ministry to Gentiles under the Great Commission.

Find me a verse that says Paul " replaced" anyone. Hint: there is no such verse in scripture.

Listen, I'll let you off the hook. You have not answered the question because you don't know how to answer it. If you just say, "I don't know why God sent Paul instead of the 12," I'll leave it at that.

lol, I was never on a hook ! The hook YOU are on is denying what Paul himself taught. Jesus said Paul was persecuting Him before Paul ever got saved so those folks Paul was persecuting eventually Paul joined in action and belief. Paul preached EXACTLY the same faith that those he persecuted taught i.e. GRACE- D.B.R. and grace paid for by Jesus. Now you might want to get off the hook of denying what Paul actually taught.
 

dodge

New member
You are attempting to deceive when you say you have answered questions that you know you haven't.

Asked and answered YOU reject the conclusion.

Here is a couple questions for you.

1. Jesus said Paul persecuted Him when Paul persecuted the early church. How exactly did Paul persecute Jesus if the early disciples preached a different Gospel than Paul ?

2. Paul preached the faith he once sought to destroy so is Paul accursed for preaching a different faith ?
 

musterion

Well-known member
Why not Paul is a better question.

No it isn't. You're still not answering the question.

Having been raised in the strict Jewish life he was a perfect candidate to bring Jesus' gospel to the gentiles.

No. Being a strict Jew meant nothing to pagans. But the 12 were to be miraculously empowered to do go to them anyway. You're still not answering the question.

Paul did not replace anyone !

You're still not answering the question.

Paul was brought into salvation by the gospel of Jesus and joined God's team. It is not Paul's message or team it is God's.

No, because the 12 had already been told to go where God eventually sent Paul. Can you explain why?

Yes I did you just did not like the answer because it does not fit into MAD deception.

You have not answered it and you know it. You're embarrassing yourself but too stupid to realize it. Or you're a troll. Either way you're not answering the question.

Find me a verse that says Paul " replaced" anyone. Hint: there is no such verse in scripture.

No one said he replaced anyone. I just asked why he was sent to go where the Great Commision had already said the 12 were going to go. You're not answering the question.

lol, I was never on a hook !

Yes you still are, because you can't answer a simple question.

The hook YOU are on is denying what Paul himself taught. Jesus said Paul was persecuting Him before Paul ever got saved so those folks Paul was persecuting eventually Paul joined in action and belief. Paul preached EXACTLY the same faith that those he persecuted taught i.e. GRACE- D.B.R. and grace paid for by Jesus. Now might want to get off the hook of denying what Paul actually taught.

Why did God send Paul to Gentiles when the G.C. included Gentiles and had already been given to the 12?

Will you answer that?
 

dodge

New member
Why not Paul is a better question.
No it isn't. You're still not answering the question.



No. Being a strict Jew meant nothing to pagans. But the 12 were to be miraculously empowered to do go to them anyway. You're still not answering the question.



You're still not answering the question.



No, because the 12 had already been told to go where God eventually sent Paul. Can you explain why?



You have not answered it and you know it. You're embarrassing yourself but too stupid to realize it. Or you're a troll. Either way you're not answering the question.



No one said he replaced anyone. I just asked why he was sent to go where the Great Commision had already said the 12 were going to go. You're not answering the question.



Yes you still are, because you can't answer a simple question.



Why did God send Paul to Gentiles when the G.C. included Gentiles and had already been given to the 12?

Will you answer that?

As you know the 12 started out going to Israel which changed after the resurrection of Jesus.

Do you believe Paul was an honest person ?

Paul's teachings prove to anyone seeking the truth that MAD is a wrong.

Rom 16:7
Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

 

dodge

New member
No it isn't. You're still not answering the question.



No. Being a strict Jew meant nothing to pagans. But the 12 were to be miraculously empowered to do go to them anyway. You're still not answering the question.



You're still not answering the question.



No, because the 12 had already been told to go where God eventually sent Paul. Can you explain why?



You have not answered it and you know it. You're embarrassing yourself but too stupid to realize it. Or you're a troll. Either way you're not answering the question.



No one said he replaced anyone. I just asked why he was sent to go where the Great Commision had already said the 12 were going to go. You're not answering the question.



Yes you still are, because you can't answer a simple question.



Why did God send Paul to Gentiles when the G.C. included Gentiles and had already been given to the 12?

Will you answer that?

Do you consider Paul accursed since he preached the faith he once sought to destroy ?


Gal 1:23
But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.
 
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