See post #'s 18 & 19 above.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
IF Is A Condition For Love
- Thread starter Squeaky
- Start date
See post #'s 18 & 19 above.
ONLY CHRISTIANS IF? ONLY LOVED IF? IF IS A CONDITION
I said
I think you totally missed the title. This thread is about the IF's in scripture. And about the conditions one must be in for the other to work.
See post #'s 18 & 19 above.
I said
I think you totally missed the title. This thread is about the IF's in scripture. And about the conditions one must be in for the other to work.
1 Pet 4:17-18
17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and IF it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?
18 Now "IF the righteous one is scarcely saved, where will the ungodly and the sinner appear?"
There is no condition for - love - there. God - so - loved the world (Jn.3:16). And He still does. For God - IS - love. He cannot deny Himself, what He IS.
1 Peter 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
If the ungodly are not saved/delivered from death, & they are dead & in their graves, then they won't "appear" anywhere. Not in this world, anyway (except in their graves), at least until their resurrection.
Peter's quote is from Prov.11:31 LXX, which in context refers to this earthly life, not final destiny or postmortem consequences:
30 Out of the fruit of righteousness grows a tree of life; but the souls of transgressors are cut off before their time.
31 If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
https://biblehub.com/sep/proverbs/11.htm
"saved or delivered":
https://studybible.info/strongs/G4982
"4982 sṓzō (from sōs, "safe, rescued") – properly, deliver out of danger and into safety"
https://biblehub.com/greek/4982.htm
18 and if the just one scarcely is safe, the impious one and sinner where will appear? (DG)
18 And, "If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?" (NIV)
If it is hard/difficult for the righteous to be saved, how much harder/more difficult will it be for the ungodly to be saved. That doesn't prove the ungodly can't be saved.
Saved from what? Saved from endless tortures or endless annihilation? Or saved from going to be tormented in Hades or the LOF? And, then, being tormented only until they find salvation in Christ their Lord, "the Savior of the world" (Jn.4:42).
17 For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who disobey the gospel of God?
18 And, “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?
Peter asks these questions. Does he know the answer to them? Does he tell us?
Saved from what? Going to Hades? The lake of fire? Then being saved when the lake of fire (the 2nd death) is abolished when death is abolished (1 Cor.15:26) & God becomes All "in all" (v.28), even all who were in Adam (v.22).
Compare from the same chapter of 1 Pet.4:
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
and from 1 Pet 3:
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah,
while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
and here Peter speaks again:
Acts 3:21 whom it behoveth heaven, indeed, to receive till times of restoration of all, of which God spake through the mouth of all His holy prophets from the age.
And Paul:
Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."
Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."
Paul makes a parallel between "the many" who were condemned & sinners and those who will be justified & constituted just.
“In Romans 5, the justification is co-extensive with the condemnation. Since all share in one, all share in the other. If only a certain portion of the human race had partaken of the sin of Adam, only a certain portion would partake of the justification of Christ. But St. Paul affirms all to have been involved in one, and all to be included in the other.”
Therefore there is salvation after death. And corrective punishment.
Jesus shall see of the travail of His soul & be satisfied. Not satisfied a little bit, but the vast majority fried alive forever.
"He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities." (Isa.53:11).
For how "many" (not few) did He "bear their iniquities"? All.
https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf
Ue a little common sense. If God is love the way you think then nobody can go down the eternal lake of fire. And there is no need to even give us the bible. I think you misunderstand what love is.
The lake of fire is God's tough love, just like this:
1 Tim.1:19 holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and thereby shipwrecked their faith. 20 Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.
The lake of fire is God's tough love, just like this:
1 Tim.1:19 holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and thereby shipwrecked their faith. 20 Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.
I said
Have you ever wondered why does he turn them over to satan if satan is the one that got them to blaspheme in the first place.
I said
Have you ever wondered why does he turn them over to satan if satan is the one that got them to blaspheme in the first place.
Verse 20 tells us why:
1 Tim.1:19 holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and thereby shipwrecked their faith. 20 Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.
It's for correction. For their own good. The same idea in 1 Cor.5:4-5. Same with the LOF.
Verse 20 tells us why:
1 Tim.1:19 holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and thereby shipwrecked their faith. 20 Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.
It's for correction. For their own good. The same idea in 1 Cor.5:4-5. Same with the LOF.
I said
A lot of people don't understand that satan is the wrath of God.
I said
A lot of people don't understand that satan is the wrath of God.
IMO Satan is a separate being from God.
IMO Satan is a separate being from God.
I said
He is separate. God created us in His own image. God created satan in the image of the wrath of God. God created Jesus in the image of the righteousness of God. If you want to know the relationship between God and satan read the book of Job.
[Job 1:6-12
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.
7 And the LORD said to Satan, "From where do you come?" So Satan answered the LORD and said, "From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it."
8 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job, that [there is] none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil?"
9 So Satan answered the LORD and said, "Does Job fear God for nothing?
10 "Have You not made a hedge around him, around his household, and around all that he has on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land.
11 "But now, stretch out Your hand and touch all that he has, and he will surely curse You to Your face!"
12 And the LORD said to Satan, "Behold, all that he has [is] in your power; only do not lay a hand on his [person]." So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.
There is no such thing as unconditional love.
God is love. Is there ever a time when He ceases to be what He is?
Even His wrath is from love:
Because I have sinned against him, I will bear the LORD’s wrath, until he pleads my case and upholds my cause. He will bring me out into the light;I will see his righteousness. (Micah 7:9)
God is love. Is there ever a time when He ceases to be what He is?
Even His wrath is from love:
Because I have sinned against him, I will bear the LORD’s wrath, until he pleads my case and upholds my cause. He will bring me out into the light;I will see his righteousness. (Micah 7:9)
I said
God gave satan the authority to punish sinners. But satan took on an altar ego as the devil. So as the devil he tricks us into sinning then as satan he has the right to exercise punishment.