If Evolution

The Barbarian

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Answers... and examples (from two major groups) were provided. What might be easier for you is to list just ONE example of something you believe is transitional. Then lets examine the evidence from God's Word, and science.

Yeah, we heard that. And you either can't remember what they are, or your fingers are too tired to type out two words, or something like that, um?

Maybe one of your fellow creationists can come up with something so you don't have to make up excuses?

Don't bother asking Right Divider; he just choked again.
 

The Barbarian

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2. How is Jesus historically verifiable?

He was cited by the Romanized Jewish Historian Josephus, among other things.

Modern scholarship has largely acknowledged the authenticity of the reference in Book 20, Chapter 9, 1 of the Antiquities to "the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James"[12] and considers it as having the highest level of authenticity among the references of Josephus to Christianity.[13][1][2][14][15][16] Almost all modern scholars consider the reference in Book 18, Chapter 5, 2 of the Antiquities to the imprisonment and death of John the Baptist also to be authentic and not a Christian interpolation.[17][18][19] The references found in Antiquities have no parallel texts in the other work by Josephus such as The Jewish War, written 20 years earlier, but some scholars have provided explanations for their absence.[20] A number of variations exist between the statements by Josephus regarding the deaths of James and John the Baptist and the New Testament accounts.[17][21] Scholars generally view these variations as indications that the Josephus passages are not interpolations, for a Christian interpolator would have made them correspond to the New Testament accounts, not differ from them.[17][22][21]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus
 

The Barbarian

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And we're still waiting for the perfected and unchangeable order of all living things. One that does not change again and again at the whim of "evolutionists".

That's one of the things that keeps blowing up in your face; you think science is a religion. It's a method for learning about the physical universe, and it changes when new evidence indicates.

For example, Newton's theory of gravitation continues to be valid and is used in navigating spacecraft. But it's also been modified by relativity.

Although some creationists have begun to worship creationism, scientists do not worship science.

Now, if you're out of excuses, how about coming up with two major groups lacking a transitional?
 

Right Divider

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That's one of the things that keeps blowing up in your face; you think science is a religion. It's a method for learning about the physical universe, and it changes when new evidence indicates.
I understand exactly what science is. That's exactly why I said what I said. "Evolutionary science" is the religion.

This is also why I keep asking people to define their world-view, particularly regarding origins. The predominant evolutionary world-view is that all life began from non-life in some sort of "first organism" and that all other life is descended from this "first organism". If this is no longer the predominant view, please feel free to educate me.

Most Christians have capitulated to this view based on the misunderstanding that "science" has invalidated the Bible account.

For example, Newton's theory of gravitation continues to be valid and is used in navigating spacecraft. But it's also been modified by relativity.
And that is the difference between true science that can be tested via the scientific method of repeated experimentation and "origins science" which is actually making claims about singular and unrepeatable events in the distant past.

Although some creationists have begun to worship creationism, scientists do not worship science.
Oh quite the contrary. The evolutionary world-view is dominated by atheistic scientists that do indeed worship science as they believe that the material world is all that exists. They believe that the only things that can be known about the world are the things that we can see and touch. Therefore, for these folks, scientists are the great high priests of "true knowledge".

Now, if you're out of excuses, how about coming up with two major groups lacking a transitional?
I don't play your game because I know that God created kinds of plants and animals and that they reproduce after their kind. So the whole idea of "transitional" is a man-made fallacy based on this evolutionary world-view.
 

Grip Docility

New member
1. Correct, you did not evolve from a monkey.
2. How is Jesus historically verifiable?

1. We’re practically wearing the same shirt.
2. If I was lying, I wouldn’t suggest you search the written and recorded evidence out for yourself. It won’t be meaningful for you any other way.
3. Bullet lists are to the point and I enjoyed yours.

Have you ever gone to a bathroom and seen this on the wall?

1: Irony is a poor literary device
2: Must write out todo list
3: Place don’t write on bathroom wall sign up, in bathroom.
 

6days

New member
Maybe one of your fellow creationists can come up with something so you don't have to make up excuses?
You can't name even one that you believe is compelling? Maybe your fellow evolutionists like GC, or Jonahdog can name one? They don't have to argue against scripture like you.
 

6days

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I don't play your game because I know that God created kinds of plants and animals and that they reproduce after their kind. So the whole idea of "transitional" is a man-made fallacy based on this evolutionary world-view.
We could play name the MISSING transitional. There is a history of evolutionists believing something was transitional, until science exposed it as just another of their false beliefs.
Coelacanths is always a fun one. :)
 

Stripe

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The paper says this in the Discussion section:
"These data are not sufficient to support the claim that DNA visualized in these cells is dinosaurian in origin; only sequence data can testify to its source. However, these data suggest that affinity purification using antibodies may provide a means of recovering and concentrating sufficient amounts of DNA to be useful for next generation genomic sequencing. Because only about 15%–20% of cells from the dinosaurs reacted positively, and because reactivity that was observed was minimal relative to extant cells, there may be insufficient DNA present to validate its origin by current sequencing technology."​
(My emphasis)

Interesting research, well carried out, but even the author spells out the limitations and weaknesses of her research. Stripe's claim is premature.
What claim?

Sent from my SM-A520F using TOL mobile app
 

Stripe

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Since RD seems to have conceded the fact that evolutionary theory is supported by numerous transitional forms and by the lack of transitionals where they shouldn't be, let's move on to other unequivocal and unambiguous evidence for common descent.

Anyone want to look at genetics next?
Hold on, sonshine. Demanding that we play your game where you've assumed the truth of your religion doesn't justify declaring your case settled and moving on.

There are no transitional forms between organisms of different kinds.

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Caino

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You're confused about the actual authorship of the Bible.


Jesus returned from the dead. Death has no power over Him. There is still more history to be completed.

It's in the gospels in plain sight, Jesus went about teaching the original gospel to the Jews but they wouldn't have it!



(Luke 6:17-19)
23Jesus went throughout Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every disease and sickness among the people.

Lament over Jerusalem
(Luke 13:31-35)
37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling! 38Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39For I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.


The gospel that Jesus taught wasn't about the cross.
 

Right Divider

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It's in the gospels in plain sight, Jesus went about teaching the original gospel to the Jews but they wouldn't have it!

(Luke 6:17-19)
23Jesus went throughout Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every disease and sickness among the people.

Lament over Jerusalem
(Luke 13:31-35)
37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling! 38Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39For I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.

The gospel that Jesus taught wasn't about the cross.
So SOME parts of the scripture you believe and other parts you reject.

You're just a ball of confusion.

Do you roll dice to decide or do you use a Ouija board? (again, no aliens allowed).
 

Caino

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So SOME parts of the scripture you believe and other parts you reject.

You're just a ball of confusion.

Do you roll dice to decide or do you use a Ouija board? (again, no aliens allowed).

I answered your question, now you want to change the subject and do the mocking thing. I think you are avoiding the obveous conflict between Jesus' gospel and subsiquent Christianity.

If the Jews accepted the original gospel, there would be NO CROSS!!! Jesus would have simply relinquished his mortal body and returned to his rightful place on high and the original "good news" would be taught today from Jerusalem. That doesn't require any great intellect to figure out.
 

True or False

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If Evolution was true of this world, it would be a super natural event. Seriously. There would be nothing natural about it. Billions of things would have to take place in order to have what we have today. And yet the Evolutionist say there is no God.

Isaiah 43:10. so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am He. Before me no god formed, nor will there be one after me.
God created evolution.

True or false?
 

The Barbarian

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I understand exactly what science is.

No one here thinks so, for the obvious reason. You keep confusing science and religion.

That's exactly why I said what I said. "Evolutionary science" is the religion.

You did. For the reason I mentioned.

This is also why I keep asking people to define their world-view, particularly regarding origins. The predominant evolutionary world-view is that all life began from non-life

That's what God says, unless you want to argue that air, water, and dirt are alive. Is that the problem?

Barbarian explains why science is continuously being updated:
For example, Newton's theory of gravitation continues to be valid and is used in navigating spacecraft. But it's also been modified by relativity.

And that is the difference between true science that can be tested via the scientific method of repeated experimentation

Yes. For example, biologist Barry Hall did an experiment, showing that bacteria evolved a new enzyme system by random mutation and natural selection. Evolutionary scientists frequently do experiments like this to test their hypotheses.

and "origins science" which is actually making claims about singular and unrepeatable events in the distant past.

You've confused religion and science again. Creationists make claims about singular and unrepeatable events in the distant past. Scientists like Hall conduct experiments and observations to test their ideas. This is one of the key differences between science and creationism.

Barbarian observes:
Although some creationists have begun to worship creationism, scientists do not worship science.

Oh quite the contrary.

Nope. You, for example, have made an idol of creationism, and have worshiped it to the point that you have separated yourself from other Christians. Creationism has become more important to you than Christians faith.


The evolutionary world-view is dominated by atheistic scientists that do indeed worship science as they believe that the material world is all that exists.

Nope. Most of us are theists of some kind. And as you were told earlier, science does not and cannot say that the material world is all that exists.

Barbarian chuckles:
Now, if you're out of excuses, how about coming up with two major groups lacking a transitional?

I don't play your game because I know...

...no one has been able to find such a case. It's a devastating failure for creationism, giving lie to the claim that there are no transitional forms. Even worse, there are transitional forms only where evolutionary theory says they should be. And now, with you claim of "missing links" in tatters, you're trying to find a way out.

As you also learned, YE creationist Dr. Kurt Wise openly acknowledges the large number of transitional forms in the fossil record but expresses confidence that eventually, a superior creationist explanation will be found for them. His commendable honesty should be emulated by you, not disparaged.
 

The Barbarian

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Barbarian observes:
Since RD seems to have conceded the fact that evolutionary theory is supported by numerous transitional forms and by the lack of transitionals where they shouldn't be, let's move on to other unequivocal and unambiguous evidence for common descent.

Anyone want to look at genetics next?


Hold on, sonshine. Demanding that we play your game where you've...

...challenged you to substantiate your claim that there are no transitional forms, is not something I really expect any of you to do. But if you claim that there are no transitional forms, perhaps you can step up and show me where they missing. You might have read the statement from YE creationist Dr. Kurt Wise, who conceded that they are numerous, giving many examples. Would you like me to show you that, again?

You've merely assumed the truth of your new religion of YE creationism and hope that stamping your foot and declaring you are right will be sufficient.

There are no transitional forms between organisms of different kinds.

Dr. Wise (an honest creationist, remember) says you are wrong. If you're honest with yourself, you'll accept the fact and go on.
 
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