I never talk to Jesus or the Holy Spirit

[glorydaz]

Yes. It's my main contention against both MAD and Calvinism, they are ethically void, and it's because of their own individual soteriologies yes but mainly just because their ethics is different, and that because their interpretation of the Apostles' place in the development and operation of the One Holy Catholic & Apostolic Church of Jesus Christ the Lord from heaven ("You are seated at the right hand of the Father, have mercy on us").

That they're ethically empty implies exactly what you say here, "[MAD or Calvinism ethics, e.g.] make the bulk of the Bible unnecessary for them after they get saved," and MADs and Calvinists will think that, "verses given to all men for reproof, for correction, and for instruction are not for the reproof of Christians."

Yes.

What? You've gone daft. Daft, I say!

 

[Hoping]

When your prophets prophesy, do they begin by saying, "Thus saith the Lord...?"
1 Kings 12
22 But the word of God came unto Shemaiah the man of God, saying,
23 Speak unto Rehoboam, the son of Solomon, king of Judah, and unto all the house of Judah and Benjamin, and to the remnant of the people, saying,
24 Thus saith the Lord

I can't remember every occasion, but I do remember it being said often.

After introducing their prophecy as the word from God do they quote the Bible or do they utter new revelations not recorded in the Bible?

Some of both, actually.

 

[Hoping]

Let me get this straight. Even though Paul knew they could not walk in the flesh after supposedly being made sinless, he still told them to walk in the Spirit to show others that they could not even walk in the flesh if they had wanted to?

I don't know if that was his reason.
I don't know if Paul was aware of 1 John 3:9-10.
I do know that Paul gave the characteristics of men in the flesh, and of men in the Spirit, in Gal 5:19-25..."Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit."

Make your choice obvious to those around you.

 

[Hoping]

Did God give us reproofs and corrections for the purpose of reproving and correcting ourselves when we sin, or for the purpose of reproving lost people of their sins?

What is the difference?
If we sin we are lost too.

 

[Hoping]

Is it possible for you to do those things that displease the Father or not to do those things that do please the Father?

Yes.
I encounter the proverbial "fork in the road" nearly every day.
One road magnifies and glorifies the Savior that suffered and died for me, and the other serves nobody but myself.

 

[Hoping]

So, are you saying we are not saved and have not attained perfection even though we have been baptized?

We won't attain perfection of the vessel till the last day when we are raised to meet Christ in the air.
In all other aspects of our lives, however, we can be perfect here and now.
Our water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins cleanses us of all past sins.
That, to me, is perfection, regardless of the condition of the vessel.
We can then either retain that cleanliness or throw it away.
If we endure faithfully until the end, we can then look back and say "I was saved from xxxx point."
To say so now, usurps the future judgement of God.

 

[Hoping]

What did Paul mean by saying he had not yet attained perfection and was not yet made perfect by the time he wrote the book of Philippians?

Philippians 3:12
Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

He was talking about his vessel.
That which he had not yet attained was written of in the prior verse, the resurrection from the dead, where we will get the perfect vessel.
It is written..."Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself." (Phil 3:21)

 

[Hoping]

Do you have those in your church with the gifts of working miracles? Have they ever raised the dead?

1 Corinthians 12:29
Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

Matthew 10:8
Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

No, we don't.

 

[marke]

As long as you hold that view, you will never receive a revelation yourself.
Thankfully, Jesus told us ahead of time how to identify false prophets...by their fruit.
It is written..."Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit." (Matt 7:15-17)
First thing you ask someone who professes they are a prophet of God is..."Do you commit sin?"

Do your prophets speak new revelation from God that is not revealed in the Bible? They should not add to the word of God like that now that the perfect and completed Bible has come.

 

[marke]

He told them, and us, to walk in the Spirit, so we wouldn't show we were still walking in the flesh.
There is a war going on for our souls, and every exhortation and warning is critical to our salvation on the last day.

Do we have to be told to walk in the Spirit after we are saved? Is it possible for Christians to walk in the flesh after they are saved until they are told to walk in the Spirit?

 

[marke]

Not all who call themselves Christians are actually Christians.
The doctrines, reproofs, and instructions in righteousness are for our protection, growth, and also for the weeding out of the posers.
The end result is in 2 Tim 3:17..."That the man of God may be perfect..."
Thanks be to God.

Are you saying we need to be reproved and corrected for our growth after we are saved? Reproved and corrected because of besetting sins?

 

[marke]

You are correct, but you forgot that the things you don't do can also show you are still a sinner.

Have you sinned since you were saved by not doing every little thing God wanted you to do?

 

[marke]

If we commit sin, where was the faith that God would provide an escape from that sin?
It is written..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1 Cor 10:13)
Got faith?

Are you saying that if we sin after we are baptized then God has provided us an escape from that sin?

 

[marke]

Because, we are not saved.
We are converted, from a sinner to believer in every word spoken by God.
We have a lifetime to prove we love God with all our might and our neighbor as we love ourselves.
Thankfully, God has given us everything we need to endure flawlessly until the day of judgement.
What we ARE saved from, is sinning.

If you are still not yet saved does that mean you are not yet born again?

 

[marke]

What Paul had not yet attained, was in the prior verse...11 "If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead."
The end of the chapter is where he elaborates further...21 "Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself."
What isn't yet perfect, is the vessel.
Thankfully, the mind is what is in control. (Rom 7:25)

So Paul was born again and served God with his mind but his vessel was not born again, tempting him to sin?

Romans 7:25
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[marke]

What I see in a mirror, is the vessel of the Holy Ghost.
And I rejoice in the name of Jesus Christ.

When you see the vessel in the mirror are you seeing a vessel that cannot sin?

He was talking about his vessel.
That which he had not yet attained was written of in the prior verse, the resurrection from the dead, where we will get the perfect vessel.
It is written..."Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself." (Phil 3:21)

 

[marke]

No, we don't.

There are none in your church with the gift of working miracles? That supports my opinion that the sign gifts have ceased.

1 Corinthians 13:10
But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

 

[marke]

I can't remember every occasion, but I do remember it being said often.

Some of both, actually.

I believe adding to the finished word of God is a sin.

Revelation 22:18
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

 

[marke]

I don't know if that was his reason.
I don't know if Paul was aware of 1 John 3:9-10.
I do know that Paul gave the characteristics of men in the flesh, and of men in the Spirit, in Gal 5:19-25..."Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit."

Make your choice obvious to those around you.

Are you saying I should walk in the Spirit after I am saved to be seen of men?

 

[marke]

What is the difference?
If we sin we are lost too.

Are you saying that reproofs, corrections, and instructions of the word of God are for sinners, not Christians?