I have a question about observing God’s commands in light of New Testament scriptures

[Jacob]

Adam was naked before and after the TKGE.
He was not ashamed of his nakedness till after the TKGE.




Galatians 3:18-24 KJV
(18) For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
(19) Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
(20) Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
(21) Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
(22) But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
(23) But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
(24) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

It was sin to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

 

[Tambora]

It was sin to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Why do you suppose Adam was ashamed of his nakedness after the TKGE, but not before?

 

[Jacob]

Why do you suppose Adam was ashamed of his nakedness after the TKGE, but not before?

Because before he did not have the knowledge of good and evil.

 

[Tambora]

Because before he did not have the knowledge of good and evil.

So it was just as shameful, but he did not realize it was shameful till after the command came to not eat from the TKGE that brought death if one partook of it.

Should sound very familiar.

Romans 7:7-13 KJV
(7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
(8) But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
(9) For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
(10) And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
(11) For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
(12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
(13) Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

 

[Jacob]

So it was just as shameful, but he did not realize it was shameful till after the command came to not eat from the TKGE that brought death if one partook of it.

Should sound very familiar.

Romans 7:7-13 KJV
(7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
(8) But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
(9) For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
(10) And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
(11) For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
(12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
(13) Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

No. The command was there and nothing was wrong until he transgressed it.

 

[Tambora]

No. The command was there and nothing was wrong until he transgressed it.

So, until the command came, Adam was blameless of his nakedness.
And if no command had come, he would still be blameless of his nakedness.

Without the law/command ----- blameless.
With the law/command ------ not blameless.


He was alive without the law/command.
He died with the law/command.

Romans 3:19-21 KJV
(19) Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
(20) Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
(21) But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

 

[Jacob]

So, until the command came, Adam was blameless of his nakedness.
And if no command had come, he would still be blameless of his nakedness.

Without the law/command ----- blameless.
With the law/command ------ not blameless.


He was alive without the law/command.
He died with the law/command.

Romans 3:19-21 KJV
(19) Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
(20) Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
(21) But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

In the case of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil the command was there not to eat of this tree, but nothing was wrong until the command was transgressed in disobedience (sin).

 

[Tambora]

In the case of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil the command was there not to eat of this tree, but nothing was wrong until the command was transgressed in disobedience (sin).

Really?
So coveting is not wrong until you realize it is wrong?

 

[Jacob]

Really?
So coveting is not wrong until you realize it is wrong?

It has nothing to do with realizing it is wrong. The commandment was given beforehand. They knew it was wrong. They did it anyway and suffered the consequences. That is, they came to understand the knowledge of good and evil by their disobedience. Before they were innocent in this regard.

 

[Tambora]

It has nothing to do with realizing it is wrong. The commandment was given beforehand. They knew it was wrong. They did it anyway and suffered the consequences. That is, they came to understand the knowledge of good and evil by their disobedience. Before they were innocent in this regard.

Did they know their nakedness was shameful before they ate?

 

[Jacob]

Did they know their nakedness was shameful before they ate?

There was no shame. Nothing wrong had been done.

 

[Tambora]

There was no shame. Nothing wrong had been done.

Adam was naked before and after.
He was naked while he was eating of the tree.
Why was it not shameful before?

Romans 7:7-13 KJV
(7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
(8) But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
(9) For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
(10) And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
(11) For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
(12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
(13) Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

 

[Jacob]

Adam was naked before and after.
He was naked while he was eating of the tree.
Why was it not shameful before?

Romans 7:7-13 KJV
(7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
(8) But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
(9) For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
(10) And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
(11) For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
(12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
(13) Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

Shame is the result of sin and breaking a command, not of hearing the command and obeying it. Before the commandment there was no shame because no commandment had been broken. We all have decisions to make in this life, and obeying God is the choice each and every person should make.

 

[djhow]

Very true sin makes you want to run and hide
and love Romans Paul's illustration of why when the sign say's "Wet Paint Do Not Touch" we just got to touch it, the law does the opposite and makes us sinners but the Spirit sets us free

 

[Tambora]

You are mistaken, I assure you. There isn't any other reason to follow such observances in the first place and no, he is not "free to do so" anyway.

Look, if you believe, for example, that it is wrong not to give ten percent of your income to the church, then you are stuck in a trap! By tithing you become a debtor to keep the whole law and Christ will profit you nothing because you are operating in the flesh rather than by faith. And conversely, the person who thinks its wrong not to tithe and does not do it, violates his own conscience and thereby sins. Catch 22!
You're quite right that his desired goal will be denied and such failure has it's ministry but that doesn't mean it isn't an error or that its okay and that he's "free to do it". Paul spent basically his entire ministry telling us not to place ourselves under the law. We are not free to simply ignore him and to do it anyway.

To put it the terms germane to this thread, God, through Paul, told us not to place ourselves under the law. We are to obey God!

Resting in Him,
Clete

Excellent!

 

[Tambora]

Before the commandment there was no shame because no commandment had been broken.

In other words, when there was no command/law then he could not be found guilty.

Romans 3:21 KJV
(21) But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;



(28) Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

 

[Jacob]

In other words, when there was no command/law then he could not be found guilty.

Romans 3:21 KJV
(21) But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;



(28) Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Guilt or shame is the result of sin.

 

[Tambora]

Guilt or shame is the result of sin.

And there can be no sin you can be found guilty of if you are under no law.

Genesis 2:25 KJV
(25) And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.




It was because of the TKGE (with the law/command) that opened their eyes to their nakedness.

Genesis 3:7 KJV
(7) And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.


It's the same nakedness before and after.

Nakedness --- without the law/command ---- no shame and no death.
Nakedness --- with the law/command ---- shame and death.

As you may have noticed, there was no law/command with the Tree of Life.
The tree you can freely eat from with no condemnation for nakedness.

Romans 7:7-10 KJV
(7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
(8) But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
(9) For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
(10) And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

 

[Jacob]

And there can be no sin you can be found guilty of if you are under no law.

Genesis 2:25 KJV
(25) And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.




It was because of the TKGE (with the law/command) that opened their eyes to their nakedness.

Genesis 3:7 KJV
(7) And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.


It's the same nakedness before and after.

Nakedness --- without the law/command ---- no shame and no death.
Nakedness --- with the law/command ---- shame and death.

As you may have noticed, there was no law/command with the Tree of Life.
The tree you can freely eat from with no condemnation for nakedness.

Romans 7:7-10 KJV
(7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
(8) But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
(9) For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
(10) And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

Tambora,

No one was under the Law of Moses during the time of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. God expected them to obey His command. There was no sin until they disobeyed. The result of their sin was death. They lost their innocence. The loss of their innocence was the result of disobeying the command.

Jesus was innocent having never sinned. He was tempted in all ways as we are however. But when you are tempted you have a choice what to do about it. Do not choose to disobey God in any area of your life.

What Paul was talking about was how his flesh rebelled against God's command, when knowledge of the command came. I don't think Adam and Eve were in the same situation. I also believe God's commands are good. If they reveal sin in a person this is a good thing, that you would repent... not say God's command does not really need to be followed or God's Law does not exist or ought to have no impact upon your life.

Obey God's commands, and you will do well.

 

[Ben Masada]

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.…" (Mat. 5:17)

Bradley, I agree with you but, Paul doesn't. If you read Ephesians 2:15, Paul said that the Law was abolished on the cross. Since, of course, he was talking about Jesus, he implied that Jesus was not saying the truth in Mat. 5:17-19, even after Jesus said that to achieve salvation, one must listen to "Moses" aka the "Moral" Law. (Luke 16:29-31)