Before I answer I have a question for you. If you go out and dig a pound of gold out of the ground on your own property or on an established claim, who does the gold belong to?
How to tell if you're a Marxist
- Thread starter Gary K
- Start date
Before I answer I have a question for you. If you go out and dig a pound of gold out of the ground on your own property or on an established claim, who does the gold belong to?
Jose Fly
New member
Sorry, I don't play the game where I ask you a question, you dodge it, and then demand that I answer yours.
If you can directly address the questions I raised to you, please do so. If you can't, then just say so and we'll move on.
EDIT: Regarding your question....CLICK HERE and HERE.
Eveready suggests:
The difference is, Obama never advocated banning guns, while Trump has openly advocated violating the 2nd Amendment.
But this isn't about the facts for you, is it?
The difference is, Obama never advocated banning guns, while Trump has openly advocated violating the 2nd Amendment.
But this isn't about the facts for you, is it?
It's not intended to be taken literally. It's just stuff right wingers chant during their programming.
There is nothing even remotely "Marxist " about our government and there never has been . Right-wing extremists still accuse the Democratic party of being "Marxist and communist " but only people who don't have a clue about Marxism and communism are do this .
Originally, Marx was right about some things . In Europe, wealthy industrialists were greedy and unscrupulous and exploited their employees with low pay and poor, dangerous and unhealthy work environments . They grew very rich and the poor lived in misery . Marx wanted to do something about this and help the poor to escape the terrible conditions in which they lived .
But his ideas about how to do this were simply unrealistic . Later, Lenin and the other Russian communists called themselves "Marxists " but merely set up a totalitarian authoritarian police state in Russia where there was no private enterprise, no stock market , the government nationalized and controlled all business and industry and controlled employee pay and distribution of goods and services . But this was a terrible economic system and was extremely inefficient . The overall quality of goods, services and food etc was very poor and the amount of these available was woefully inadequate . Not to mention the suppression of all dissent and persecution of dissenters , and the brutal suppression of religion and minority peoples in the Soviet Union .
So things went from the extreme of having a wealthy minority in the private sector which oppressed workers to a government which oppressed workers and the entire populace .
America is not heading toward communist oppression - it is heading toward the kind of conditions where private industry and captains of industry exploited and oppressed the populace . The very conditions which led to what Marx tried to remedy .
In America today, the richest and most powerful CEOs of the big corporation are pretty much the de facto government . They have the Republican party in their hands and their pay . The GOP are the paid shills of the biggest industrial fat cats . Trump is one of these fat cats, and though not a rich was say, the Koch brothers and other rich people, he wants to make himself as rich as
possible What better way to do this than by conning his way into being elected president with zero qualifications for the ?
America is now an oligarchy and a kleptocracy . Not to mention an idiocracy and a kakistocracy, or government by the worst people . We are no longer a Democracy if Trump can become president so he can feather his own nest and the other big industrialists control congress so they can keep our government from making laws regulating the environment for safety against pollution and unclean air, food and water etc .
The Democrats in Washington are dong their best to try to keep the Republicans from depriving millions of America of health care , help for those out of work , the poor, the disabled , the elderly and children etc , but so far it's been an uphill battle and the Republicans control both houses unfortunately .
Poor and middle class Americans who voted for Trump voted against their own interests . The Republicans have maintained Reagan's disastrous supply side "trickle down" economics and forced wages to stagnate of decades while the cost of living increases steadily . So we have ever increasing poverty, unemployment and helplessness in America . The poor an unemployed can't find good jobs and to many of the middle class are struggling to provide for their families .
Our universities re pricing themselves out of existence and there isn't enough financial help.
The minimum wage is too low even though employers and corporations could easily afford a $15 minimum without causing an increase in prices or risking going out of business .
America badly needs more and ore scientists, doctors and other highly killed people in order to remain in competition with the global economy but the cost of getting undergraduate and graduate degree or medical and law degrees has become prohibitive even though many European countries have no problem providing free college education . Because of this , America is shooting itself in the effort .
Originally, Marx was right about some things . In Europe, wealthy industrialists were greedy and unscrupulous and exploited their employees with low pay and poor, dangerous and unhealthy work environments . They grew very rich and the poor lived in misery . Marx wanted to do something about this and help the poor to escape the terrible conditions in which they lived .
But his ideas about how to do this were simply unrealistic . Later, Lenin and the other Russian communists called themselves "Marxists " but merely set up a totalitarian authoritarian police state in Russia where there was no private enterprise, no stock market , the government nationalized and controlled all business and industry and controlled employee pay and distribution of goods and services . But this was a terrible economic system and was extremely inefficient . The overall quality of goods, services and food etc was very poor and the amount of these available was woefully inadequate . Not to mention the suppression of all dissent and persecution of dissenters , and the brutal suppression of religion and minority peoples in the Soviet Union .
So things went from the extreme of having a wealthy minority in the private sector which oppressed workers to a government which oppressed workers and the entire populace .
America is not heading toward communist oppression - it is heading toward the kind of conditions where private industry and captains of industry exploited and oppressed the populace . The very conditions which led to what Marx tried to remedy .
In America today, the richest and most powerful CEOs of the big corporation are pretty much the de facto government . They have the Republican party in their hands and their pay . The GOP are the paid shills of the biggest industrial fat cats . Trump is one of these fat cats, and though not a rich was say, the Koch brothers and other rich people, he wants to make himself as rich as
possible What better way to do this than by conning his way into being elected president with zero qualifications for the ?
America is now an oligarchy and a kleptocracy . Not to mention an idiocracy and a kakistocracy, or government by the worst people . We are no longer a Democracy if Trump can become president so he can feather his own nest and the other big industrialists control congress so they can keep our government from making laws regulating the environment for safety against pollution and unclean air, food and water etc .
The Democrats in Washington are dong their best to try to keep the Republicans from depriving millions of America of health care , help for those out of work , the poor, the disabled , the elderly and children etc , but so far it's been an uphill battle and the Republicans control both houses unfortunately .
Poor and middle class Americans who voted for Trump voted against their own interests . The Republicans have maintained Reagan's disastrous supply side "trickle down" economics and forced wages to stagnate of decades while the cost of living increases steadily . So we have ever increasing poverty, unemployment and helplessness in America . The poor an unemployed can't find good jobs and to many of the middle class are struggling to provide for their families .
Our universities re pricing themselves out of existence and there isn't enough financial help.
The minimum wage is too low even though employers and corporations could easily afford a $15 minimum without causing an increase in prices or risking going out of business .
America badly needs more and ore scientists, doctors and other highly killed people in order to remain in competition with the global economy but the cost of getting undergraduate and graduate degree or medical and law degrees has become prohibitive even though many European countries have no problem providing free college education . Because of this , America is shooting itself in the effort .
Far-left wingers go one step farther than chanting they, RIOT!
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No games. I wanted to understand your idea of what constitutes property. The links you gave say you accept the marxist idea of government taking property away from the individual. There was a time in this country where when a person bought land all rights went with it. Now that has been done away with. That is taking away the property of the individual. It's marxist in origin and concept.
The 14th amendment says that the debt of the federal government cannot be questioned. Now who pays that debt? Taxpayers which means we the people. The government has no money or income of its own. All it has it what it takes away from others. So, when th 14th amendment says the debt cannot be questioned it is saying the government can reach into your pockets and mine and spend as much of our money as it pleases. In doing so it is taking our property and we have no recourse to recover our property.
You really don't understand how zoning laws are the government taking over private property? Zoning laws tell a person what they can do on their own property. Meaning that they do not control their own property. The individual bought it with his own money, yet the government controls it. That's a removal of his property. That which he does not control he does not really own. Through zoning laws state, county, city and multiple federal agencies government can come in an retroactively rezone or repurpose land which often destroys the owners rights on his own land. Say he's a farmer and the city annexes his land. Can he still farm there? Nope. It's now zoned for another purpose. That is often done under eminent domain laws which have been expanded to where government at any level can come in and take land away from private individuals and rezone it commercial for real estate developers and an increase in taxes. And you don't understand any of this?
As to the BLM, where does the Constitution give the federal government ownership of state land? It doesn't. That power is found nowhere in the Constitution. This is federal government encroachment upon the rights of the states. It is not legal as the Constitution is the highest law of the land. In the state of Nevada the federal government claims ownership of 81% of the land and adminsters that land through the BLM. So does the state actually govern it's own territory? Only 1 out of 5 acres, the rest is governed by the BLM.
In the big brouhaha in Eastern Oregon where the FBI shot and killed Lavoy Finicum the BLM had been taking over ranches for decades by diverting a river so that it flooded ranches whose owners who wouldn't sell to them. By this tactic they had run most ranchers into bankruptcy. Then the BLM bought their land for pennies on the dollar of actual value. There were only a very few ranchers left, one of whom was Lavoy Finicum. They killed him for his obstinacy. But the most interesting part of the whole nasty episode was that there was uranium on that land and the powers that be wanted to include that mine in the Uranium One deal that the Obama administration pushed through. They couldn't do that as long as the land was privately owned so the BLM had spent decades prying, illegally, the owners off their land. And you don't see how the BLM is taking the private property of US citizens?
Who is 'we'll,' have you got a mouse in your pocket?
If Marx had advocated a firm belief in medicine and science as a cornerstone of the Marxist state would that make those who believe in their value Marxist?lain:
If a man had a wooden leg would that make him, a table?
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Eveready suggests:
The difference is, Obama never advocated banning guns, while Trump has openly advocated violating the 2nd Amendment.
But this isn't about the facts for you, is it?
Speaking about 'facts,' I have observed over the past year and a half or so that, facts and truth are Kryptonite to far-left zealots.
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Jose Fly
New member
So your basic argument here is that all taxes are Marxist? If not, what forms of taxation are not Marxist?
So your basic argument here is that any regulation of private property at all constitutes Marxist abolishment of ownership of private property? IOW, if there are any laws at all governing my use of my private property, I no longer own that property, correct?
So your basic argument here is that any federal ownership of land (parks, military bases, gov't buildings) constitutes the abolishment of private property?
Jose Fly
New member
It seems ffreeloader takes it literally. I'm always curious to see the thinking and logic behind this sort of thing. Apparently if I bought the property next to ffreeloader and started a tire burning and nuclear waste storage service on it, he would be just fine with that.
The WIZ of OOZE strikes again,,,
Barbarian observes:
It's not intended to be taken literally. It's just stuff right wingers chant during their programming.
But he's fully programmed. Poke him and he chants random slogans.
It's not intended to be taken literally. It's just stuff right wingers chant during their programming.
But he's fully programmed. Poke him and he chants random slogans.
everready
New member
Eveready suggests:
The difference is, Obama never advocated banning guns, while Trump has openly advocated violating the 2nd Amendment.
But this isn't about the facts for you, is it?
Its beginning to sound like this..
You have been taught to insidiously plant the seeds of jealousy and hatred between communities, provinces, states that were at peace, and incite them to deeds of blood, involving them in war with each other, and to create revolutions and civil wars in countries that were independent and prosperous, cultivating the arts and the sciences and enjoying the blessings of peace. To take sides with the combatants and to act secretly with your brother Jesuit, who might be engaged on the other side, but openly opposed to that with which you might be connected, only that the Church might be the gainer in the end, in the conditions fixed in the treaties for peace and that the end justifies the means.
You have been taught your duty as a spy, to gather all statistics, facts and information in your power from every source; to ingratiate yourself into the confidence of the family circle of Protestants and heretics of every class and character, as well as that of the merchant, the banker, the lawyer, among the schools and universities, in parliaments and legislatures, and the judiciaries and councils of state, and to be all things to all men, for the Pope's sake, whose servants we are unto death.
http://www.reformation.org/jesuit-oath.html
Barbarian observes:
The difference is, Obama never advocated banning guns, while Trump has openly advocated violating the 2nd Amendment.
But this isn't about the facts for you, is it?
(Eveready posts a faked story about Catholics to get even with Barbarian)
Interestingly, this bit of slander was so offensive when it came out, Congress actually documented it in the Congressional library, and issued a statement condemning it:
This committee cannot condemn too strongly the publication of the false and libelous article referred to in the paper of Mr. Bonniwell, and which was the spurious Knights of Columbus oath, a copy of which is appended to the paper. (H.R. Rep. No. 62-1523 (1913), reprinted in the Congressional Record for February 15, 1913, at p. 3221)
It's what we've come to expect from Eveready. But you also posted a fake accusation against Obama, so you're at least consistent. You serve your master well.
The difference is, Obama never advocated banning guns, while Trump has openly advocated violating the 2nd Amendment.
But this isn't about the facts for you, is it?
(Eveready posts a faked story about Catholics to get even with Barbarian)
Interestingly, this bit of slander was so offensive when it came out, Congress actually documented it in the Congressional library, and issued a statement condemning it:
This committee cannot condemn too strongly the publication of the false and libelous article referred to in the paper of Mr. Bonniwell, and which was the spurious Knights of Columbus oath, a copy of which is appended to the paper. (H.R. Rep. No. 62-1523 (1913), reprinted in the Congressional Record for February 15, 1913, at p. 3221)
It's what we've come to expect from Eveready. But you also posted a fake accusation against Obama, so you're at least consistent. You serve your master well.
Ooooh. What an intellect. I'm really impressed. You can build a straw man and then knock it down.
When you decide to have an honest discussion let me know. Until then, so long.