HOW SERIOUS ARE DOCTRINAL ERRORS?
- Thread starter Truster
- Start date
Are you both bibla-retarded. 1 word... "Theophilus"
Acts and Luke... connection?
And furthermore... your quotes are post Death and Burial. Luke is a composite of accounts... "Theophilus" ... are you both really that stu-stu-stu... unstudied...
Is the Pauline account of the full meaning of the DBR revealed in your verses as Jesus Christ spoke through Paul? NO!
You are both peas in a pod reaching and revealing your bib-tardedness....
Acts and Luke are "special" books and you are both disproving your false assertions while simultaneously bolstering the Mid-Acts understanding...
:doh:
Unbelievable!!! You both are absolutely rediculous on this point! Wake UP!!!
glorydaz
Well-known member
Why is that unanswerable? What exactly are you claiming?
The Jews believed that Jesus came to (redeem) rescue them from Roman rule and that He would sit on David's Throne. They were shocked that He hadn't done so.
Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
glorydaz
Well-known member
As usual, you rest in something you don't even understand. :nono:
So Luke writes post Paul? Then why did Luke use Paul's word:
Who gave himself for us, that he might
redeem G3084
us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works
Luke says:
But we trusted that it had been he which should have
redeemed G3084
Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.
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Even if you force your doctrine into Luke's words in 24:21, you further seal your doom. Here's why.
MAD says 24:21 means that the disciples thought Christ would rescue Israel (not redeem) from Roman domination.
1. FACT: when the disciples said this to Jesus they hadn't recognized Jesus and thought he was just a stranger.
2. FACT: “And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.”
??Luke? ?24:31? ?
3. FACT: “And he said unto them, These are my words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must needs be fulfilled, which are written in the law of Moses, and the prophets, and the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their mind, that they might understand the scriptures; and he said unto them, Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer, and rise again from the dead the third day; and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name unto all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.”
??Luke? ?24:44-47? ?ASV??
4. THE LOGICAL CONCLUSION FOR THE MAD CLAIM CONCERNING LK24:21: Jesus revealed Himself to the very same ones who "thought He should RESCUE (there's her word again) Israel" and then proceeds to preach a sermon on remission of sins coming by way of a special death, burial and resurrection that would be preached first in Jerusalem and then to the world.
Case closed
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You are slowwwwwwwwwww...
I stated that Luke and Acts are linked and pointed towards Luke being a compilation. If you can't even get what I write correctly... I'm certain you are struggling big time in the matter you are falsely arguing.
You didn't even bring this argument home. Wash... Redo... try again pup.
Better yet... sit down when grown up conversation is occurring. Here... hold this tonka power drill and pretend your accomplishing something. I have a hollow plastic hammer with the name of your commentaries on it. You can drive pretend nails with it.
Fact... Paul is unique and states so... therefore Christ's words to the 11 were different than Paul's message.
Fact... Acts and Luke have the same author... so your point counts against you.
Fact... you declare check mate... as if it weren't your king that needs to be toppled.
Ahem... and it does... Check and Mate... Junior Fries with a side of error.
So that's what your commentary is called! I will probably skip that read.
No, you should join me as a friend on the Bible App where my goal is a verse by verse commentary. Here's what I'm working on this month bro.
STUDY OF THE MINOR PROPHETS
In the Hebrew bible all 12 minor prophets are counted as one book and are simply called "The Twelve."
Term minor prophets first used by Augustine because of their small size.
Chronological Sequence and Geographic Area
Obadiah 845 southern kingdom
Joel 835 southern kingdom
Amos 810-783 northern kingdom
Jonah 824-783 Assyria
Hosea 790-725 northern kingdom
Micah 758-710 southern kingdom
Nahum 710-664 southern kingdom
Habakkuk 650-622 southern kingdom
Zephaniah 640-610 southern kingdom
Haggai 520 to the Jews of the Restoration
Zachariah 520 to the Jews of the Restoration
Malachi 433-424 to the Jews of the Restoration
Main Themes:
1. Basic spiritual principles concerning God and man.
2. Strong condemnation of sin.
3. Provide comfort to the believing Remnant.
4. Prophecy things both near and far.
5. Prophetic Periods: (1) their own times socially and politically (2) the Babylonian and Assyrian captivities and restoration from the Babylonian and Assyrian captivities (3) first coming of Messiah (4) coming of the Great Tribulation (5) second coming prophecies (6) elements of the Messianic Kingdom.
OBADIAH The First One
Vs 1: introduction - the vision
Timing:
* name means the servant of Jehovah
* no mention of king reigning
* Jeremiah quotes vs 1-4 in 49:14-16 and vs 5-6 in 49:9-10 and vs 8-9 in 49:7,22
*Joel quotes vs 17 in 2:32
Therefore Obadiah precedes Jeremiah's prophecies.
*10-14 describes a sacking of Jerusalem but which one? King Jehoram 845 BC Jerusalem sacked by the philistines, arabs and Edom likely the sacking described by Obadiah.
Locale: Judah
Historical Setting: The sacking of Jerusalem of 845 BC
Major Points: (1) God will avenge Israel (2) God will restore Israel
Theme: The doom of Edom
*edom had a brotherhood relationship with Israel even closer than Moab and Ammon but Edom was the most antagonistic against Israel that is why the prophets are more severe in their dealings with Edom.
Prophetic Vision: Not all prophecies came by means of visions but this one did come that way where a video is played out for the prophet and what is seen is written down.
Coming Total Destruction of Edom
Vs 1b: call goes out with an ambassador sent out. Possibly an angel is sent out to stir up the nations against Edom. Whether in the angelic or human realm something is going on.
Vs 2: Edom population reduction.
Vs 3: Edom's pride and security will be of no avail.
Vs 4: Edom's defensive heights seem impenetrable but they are not.
Vs 5: Description of the destruction seen in contrast of robbers and gatherers of the field. No one is ever capable of robbing every little item. But this destruction will leave nothing behind.
Vs 6: None of her allies will help Edom.
Vs 7: her allies will turn against her.
Vs 8: the counsel of her wisemen shall fail.
Vs 9: everyone cutoff no descendants left alive.
Reason for Edom's Destruction
Vs 10: For sinning against her twin brother.
Vs 11: For failing to come to the aid of Israel under duress.
Vs 12: For exercising glee over Israel's distress.
Vs 13: Edom followed after the invading armies and took what was left in Israel.
Vs 14: Edom blocked escapees from making it out.
And delivered those who they captured over to the enemy.
Ezekiel 35:1-5: Edom has had a perpetual hatred for Israel. Began in Numbers 14 twice Edom refused passage of the Jews thru their land even tho Moses made the request based upon blood relationships.
Timing of the Fulfillment of the Prophecy in the Day of Jehovah aka The Tribulation
Vs 15: The most common name for the seven years of future judgement is not the Tribulation but the Day of Jehovah.
Vs 16: Another reason why this will happen to them is because when they arrived on the mount the got drunk. Now they are to be swallowed up.
Vs 17: Israel will survive it. Those that escaped are known as the Remnant of Israel.
Vs 18: While Israel will have a Remnant, Edom will not. Ezekiel 25:12-14 - same point made. Esau to have no descendants in the Messianic Kingdom. Other prophets reveal that while the rest of the earth blossoms during the kingdom, Edom will be a land of smoke and Edom to be a confinement of demons.
Vs 19: Possession of land by the Jews.
Vs 20: The Jews captured anywhere else will be returned to the land and Zerapath which is Lebanon will be their possession.
Vs 21: The Jews will establish the Kingdom.
Obadiah is the first of the minor prophets and he sets the motif.
JOEL
Name: means Jehovah is God
Date:
* no kingship mentioned
* Joel 3:16 quoted by Amos in 1:2 & 3:18 in Amos 9:13 thus putting his prophecy before Amos.
* he does not rail against idolatry like Amos
* Probably prophesied during the reign of Joash a good king in 835 BC
Locale: Judah probably Jerusalem
Historical Setting: a locust invasion that set the stage for two future invasions one demonic and one an army.
Two Major Points: (1) God controls world events (2) God always responds to repentance
Theme: The Day of Jehovah 1:15,2:1,11,31,3:14.
NT Quotes: 2:28-32 in Acts 2:17-21, and 2:32 in Rom 10:13.
Historical Locust Invasion 2-14
Vs 2: This invasion unique to all past history. The old men could not recall anything to compare it to.
Vs 3: Elders are told to tell of it to four generations.
Vs 4: Four stages of devastation: Four successive swarms. In the Old Testament the number four sometimes represents totality of destruction (Jer 15:3, Ez 14:21). Again by the time Joel writes these words this is not a prophecy but already history. But it will become the background for something prophetic.
Vs 5: The drunks are called to awake after their last binge and to weep and wail for there wine is to be cut off.
Vs 6: These things are destroyed by an army of locusts which symbolizes an army as in Pr 30:25,27.
Vs 7: The branches are made white meaning the bark itself has been eaten up. Not only are the drunks to mourn but also the rest of the population.
Vs 8: Those to lament (Hebrew word for lament "Betulah" used only here and nowhere else in the OT it's a feminine imperative because it pictures the whole nation as the virgin daughter of Zion).
Vs 9: Priesthood called to repent now because the things that sustained them from the tithes is now gone.
Vs 10 - 12a: Again emphasis on what has been lost.
Vs 12b: No Feast of First Fruits.
Vs 13: Refers to the priesthood as the ministers of the altar because they were responsible for the offering and as ministers of my God because they were responsible for representing God. They're told to keep the sackcloth normally worn only at day are to keep it on even in their sleep.
There is a real danger of massive starvation.
Vs 14: Joel calls upon all people to fast which would be a sign (Judges 20:26, Neh 1:4) of outward national grief and repentance. And to cry unto the Lord showing the inward repentance.
The Prophetic Invasion, Joel Shoots Forward to the Day of Jehovah
Vs 15: Begins with an announcement: (Joel's theme) The Day of Jehovah is at hand.
Vs 16: In this day also sustenance cut off from the temple as in the locust invasion.
Vs 17: In the preceding invasion things were destroyed by things eating them but here these things will be destroyed by fire.
Vs 18: Devastation on the livestock.
Chapter 2 Describes the Tribulation
Vs 1: once again the alarm is sounded to announce the approaching army the alarm sounds from the Temple Mount. That Day of Jehovah has finally arrived.
Vs 2: described in four terms (1) darkness (2) gloominess (3) clouds (4) thick darkness
Is 8:22,69:2, Amos 5:18-20 Zeph 1:14-16.
*As dawn spreads the Day of Jehovah will be both sudden and wide spread.
*Notice the words "AS" and "LIKE", in other words they don't really do this, they appear like they do this, appearance is of a human army but something about them makes them non human.
*As bad as the previous locusts invasion was, this one will be far worse.
Vs 3: The devastation they cause. Again not by eating but by fire.
Vs 4: Their appearances are "as" horseman.
Vs 5: They make noise like fire a crackling sound.
Vs 6: The terror they cause.
Vs 8: They are disciplined.
Vs 9: Description of their attack.
Vs 10: A blackout appears.
Vs 11: Joel points out that this is a divine judgement from God. This massive army is executing God's word. Revelation does not really provide a lot of new information besides the last two chapters 21 & 22. Most of what's in Revelation is scattered throughout the OT. What Revelation does is it gives the chronology of events. Here in Joel 2 Revelation chapter 9 elaborates that there will be 2 demonic invasions 9:11 where the demons are told not to kill but to torment men for five months. After five months comes the second demonic invasion 9:13-21 where they kill one third of humanity.
Similarities in Revelation 9 and Joel 2
*army has horselike and locust features
*fire causes massive devastation
*causes convulsions of nature
*causes a blackout - there are 5 different blackouts. (1) before the Tribulation (2,3,4) during the Tribulation, and (5) right afterwards. This blackout in Joel 2 is the third blackout.
*destruction comes from the destroyer.
What Joel is describing is what John was describing, a demonic army invasion. Joel says their camp was very great, John gives their number as 2 million demons. Not Chinese but demons.
The Exhortation to Fasting and Prayer
Vs 12: People now required to fast, weep, mourn. Inward and external repentance.
Vs 13-14: God does respond to repentance (Ex 34:6).
Vs 15-17: Alarm sounded again but not for warning but for the solemn assembly. Priests called to request of God that the people be spared on the basis of (1) Israel are the chosen people, and (2) based that Gentiles would not deride them and question God.
In the first part the book Joel has described a recent invasion and asked for the people to pray that there won't be mass starvation. That led to a prophetic invasion, a demonic invasion leading to a call of the solemn assembly to ask God to intervene.
The Salvation and Restoration of Israel
Vs 18-20: God's mercy, (1) God was jealous for His land (Zac 1:14,8:2, Ex 34:14, Ez 39:5), and (2) God has pity on His people, God will never allow a total destruction of His people.
The main army will die in the Negev in the north. Eastern sea - Dead Sea.
With such massive destruction of a human army there's a stench.
God will do positive things
Vs 21: Land rejoices.
Vs 22: Even the animals can rejoice.
Vs 23-26: The Jews rejoice and give thanks for five things (1) (the translators didn't know what to do with this so they wrote "he gives the former rain in just measure") there are just 2 Hebrew words here and should be translated "for the teacher of righteousness"the first thing they are to rejoice for is for their Messiah, (2) for the rains coming in their proper seasons, (3) for the grain, wine and oil, (4) the restoration of previous losses, and (5) because shame has been removed.
Vs 27: Ultimately Israel will know their God.
Joel Describes the Event that Leads to Israel's National Salvation, the Outpouring of the Holy Spirit and the Third Invasion the Campaign of Armageddon
Chapter three in the Hebrew bible begins with 2:28.
Vs 28: The key word is "afterwards" after Israel's repentance comes this national salvation, this outpouring of the Spirit.
Vs 29: Pronoun "your" meaning all Jews living during that time and not all flesh in the world. This is what Paul talks about in Romans 12.
Vs 30-31: He points to signs heralding that this is coming (1) convulsions of nature (elaborated on in the book of Revelation), (2) blackout, the first of those five blackouts. This one coming before the Tribulation.
Vs 32: The prerequisite to the outpouring of the Spirit - Israel's calling upon the name of the Lord. Only one third of the Jewish population survive and these are the Remnant who are identified as those who escaped now called so the second time in the minor prophets.
The Judgement of the Gentiles
Chapter Three
Vs 1: The timing - in those days and in that time - what time? When Israel is saved. Daniel 12 points out that there will be a 75 day interval between the end of the Tribulation and the starting of the Messianic Kingdom during which time several things will take place.
Vs 2: The subjects are all Gentiles who survive,
Vs 3: will be judged in the valley of Jehoshaphat/Kidron. Judged on the basis of Matthew 25 how they aided the Jews during the Tribulation separated as goats and sheep. Judged for (1) scattering the Jews, (2) parting the land, (3) for enslaving the Jews.
Vs 4-7: those guilty are Phonecia present day Lebanon and Philistia present day Gaza Strip area.
Vs 8: Those who caused enslavement are enslaved.
Vs 9: Summary of key features of the Campaign of Armageddon. Proclaimed in Revelation 17:12-16 by the antichrist. When the people around world hear the decree to come against the Jews they do so with
Vs 10: with enthusiasm. With speed and with haste. What they don't realize is that God is bringing these nations together that will end in gentile defeat.
Vs 12: Gathered together on the valley of Jehoshaphat for judgement.
Vs 13: Rev 14:14-16 reaping. Reaping a symbol of salvation there will be salvation among the Gentiles. Treading - judgement just outside the city.
Vs 14: multitudes of Gentiles
Vs 15: accompanied with a blackout , blackout number 5
Vs 16: The goat Gentiles showed their lack of faith by their antisemitism and perish. But the sheep Gentiles showed their faith by their pro Semitic works and will populate the Messianic Kingdom. These are the nations that the church saints will judge over during the kingdom.
Vs 18-21: Ends his book with a description of the Messianic Kingdom. "It shall come to pass in that Day" is a prophetic motif for the kingdom.
*A special river. It flows into the Dead Sea causing life, fish.
*Different settlements than those in book of Joshua
*Dramatic changes in the land's geography explained by Zachariah.
* Edom suffers total destruction.
* Egypt suffers only for 40 years. Then they exist as a nation during the kingdom.
* Judah shall abide forever.
* Israel will be a saved state with Messiah ruling.
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Yeah it's enriching to be arguing on the forums but there needs to be a place where Christians can simply encourage one another as co members of or God and Savior TOL ain't that place. But like you, I don't take things personally. I don't agree with some of the Dallas TS but I don't ridicule them just because I disagree. They are God's servants and their judgement will come once we see the Lord together at the Bema Seat. In that judgement of evaluation what was done correctly in God's ways will remain and what was wrong like MAD and open theism will burn away. Are you good at landscaping?
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I'll look this over... but... if it's your commentary... please tell me. I won't be my mean self if it is.
I am glad that you Love Christ and know grace. Your words about "hurting people... hurting people are spot on"... I hope you are a good influence on the person you were referring to.
- EE
Yes... you got me... I'm actually an encourager and calm. The sarcasm and hard timing is to keep things moving forward and have fun.
All respect to you and agreement to disagree on this matter... though debate can continue. I do see that you understand the big ticket stuff and we disagree on the how it all divides part... which is non essential in the big scheme.
All encouragement and respect,
- EE
glorydaz
Well-known member
Surely you jest.
Psalm 25:22
Redeem Israel, O God, out of all his troubles.
Exodus 6:6 Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the Lord, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments: