ECT How Can the Preterists be so Blind?

[Jerry Shugart]

Let us look at this verse:

"And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory" (Mt.24:30).​

Well known preterist author Gary DeMar writes:

"The 'coming' of 'the Son of Man' is most often taught as a worldwide event since Jesus states that 'all the tribes of the earth will mourn' (Matt.24:30). Again, most Bible translations do not capture the true meaning of the Greek. A better translation is 'tribes of the land,' indicating that the event is restricted to Israel since Israel is the topic of discussion" [emphasis mine] (DeMar, Last Days Madness, 166).​

Of course that is wrong because when the Lord Jesus returns all men from the nations will be judged:

"Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: 'See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him'" (Jude 14-15).​

We can see in the following passage that people from all the nations will be judged when the Lord Jesus returns:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left... Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (Mt.25:31-33, 41).​

Since nothing like this happened in 70AD then it is obvious to anyone who will use their brain that the Lord Jesus did not return in 70AD when Jerusalem was destroyed!

But the preterists are blind to the truths revealed in the Bible! The only thing they are good at is perverting the truth found in the Scriptures!

 

[Puppet]

I found the revelations perfectly matched the old testaments but never matches something that hasn't happened yet and still continuing. How often do people say Jesus is coming tommorrow when they say it everyday for 2000 years and still counting?

 

[HisServant]

Let us look at this verse:

"And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory" (Mt.24:30).​

Well known preterist author Gary DeMar writes:

"The 'coming' of 'the Son of Man' is most often taught as a worldwide event since Jesus states that 'all the tribes of the earth will mourn' (Matt.24:30). Again, most Bible translations do not capture the true meaning of the Greek. A better translation is 'tribes of the land,' indicating that the event is restricted to Israel since Israel is the topic of discussion" [emphasis mine] (DeMar, Last Days Madness, 166).​

Of course that is wrong because when the Lord Jesus returns all men from the nations will be judged:

"Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: 'See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him'" (Jude 14-15).​

We can see in the following passage that people from all the nations will be judged when the Lord Jesus returns:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left... Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (Mt.25:31-33, 41).​

Since nothing like this happened in 70AD then it is obvious to anyone who will use their brain that the Lord Jesus did not return in 70AD when Jerusalem was destroyed!

But the preterists are blind to the truths revealed in the Bible! The only thing they are good at is perverting the truth found in the Scriptures!

Your point might be valid if you weren't in the company of countless dispensationalists that have prophesied when the rapture would happen... only to be found out to be liars.

How many times are your leaders going to be proven liars before you finally depart from their teachings?

 

[Daniel1611]

Jesus will not return untill sometime after the Antichrist is revealed. So we have a point if reference. We don't know when it will be, but we know it will be some time after the tribulation.

 

[Interplanner]

JerryS,
I guess you can't grasp the delay doctrine.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Your point might be valid if you weren't in the company of countless dispensationalists that have prophesied when the rapture would happen... only to be found out to be liars.

May be valid?

You are as blind as any preterist on this forum!

Do you not see that the Gentiles from all the nations will be judged when the Lord Jesus returns?:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left... Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (Mt.25:31-33, 41).​

You call yourself a believer but all I see from you is the fact that you pick and choose what you will believe.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

JerryS,
I guess you can't grasp the delay doctrine.

Are you not aware that the preterists teach that a first century generation saw the Lord Jesus' return?

You do not even understand what your own people teach proving once again that you are clueless.

 

[HisServant]

May be valid?

You are as blind as any preterist on this forum!

Do you not see that the Gentiles from all the nations will be judged when the Lord Jesus returns?:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left... Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (Mt.25:31-33, 41).​

You call yourself a believer but all I see from you is the fact that you pick and choose what you will believe.

You follow the doctrines of PROVEN false prophets... why should anyone here spend even 1 second reading what you have to say?

We are to FLEE from the likes of you.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I found the revelations perfectly matched the old testaments but never matches something that hasn't happened yet and still continuing. How often do people say Jesus is coming tommorrow when they say it everyday for 2000 years and still counting?

I cannot understand the point you are trying to make. Do you think that the Gentiles will be excluded from judgment when the Lord Jesus returns to the earth?:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left... Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (Mt.25:31-33, 41).​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You follow the doctrines of PROVEN false prophets... why should anyone here spend even 1 second reading what you have to say?

We are to FLEE from the likes of you.

I follow the Bible and it is evident that you do not! And that is why you refuse to deal with the passages I quoted from the Bible!

You are blind to the truth and the sad thing is the fact that you couldn't care less about what the Scriptures actually say.

We are to FLEE from the likes of you.

You FLEE from the truth revealed in the Bible.

 

[HisServant]

I follow the Bible and it is evident that you do not! And that is why you refuse to deal with the passages I quoted from the Bible!

You are blind to the truth and the sad thing is the fact that you couldn't care less about what the Scriptures actually say.

First of all, you have not posted any 'passages' that can be responded to in a logical manner. What you had done is made Swiss cheese of scripture and pulled out small sections that you need to support your point and have thrown the rest away.

Satan would be proud of you!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

First of all, you have not posted any 'passages' that can be responded to in a logical manner. What you had done is made Swiss cheese of scripture and pulled out small sections that you need to support your point and have thrown the rest away.

All we have are your assertions and nothing else.

Are we suppose to believe that this passage speaking of the time when the Lord Jesus returns in only speaking of Israelites?:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left... Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (Mt.25:31-33, 41).​

 

[HisServant]

All we have are your assertions and nothing else.

Are we suppose to believe that this passage speaking of the time when the Lord Jesus returns in only speaking of Israelites?:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left... Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (Mt.25:31-33, 41).​

That is NOT a passage... it is PART of a passage that must be approached within the scope of the ENTIRE passage. In this passage Jesus is talking DIRECTLY to the disciples.. and no one else.. he is answering a singular question from them.

I also find it interesting earlier in the passage that he instructs the disciples not to look for his second coming... and to flee from those claiming to know when.

Jesus is also being a bit cryptic in this passage and where the parables start and end are a bit hard to define. I am thinking that the verses you quoted are actually part of a parable and should be viewed as such.

Oh... and STOP bolding selected portions of verses... God doesn't need you emphasizing only parts of what he inspired.. it ALL has equal importance within the context of the passage. I view your bolding of text as you censoring God's word... I'm sure he doesn't appreciate that as you seem to think he was not smart enough and took it upon yourself to basically rewrite it for him.

The bottom line is that if you truly believe the Bible is God's word... THEN START TREATING IT THAT WAY! It's his words... and they are not words to be turned into a wax nose to make them mean whatever you want!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

That is NOT a passage... it is PART of a passage that must be approached within the scope of the ENTIRE passage. In this passage Jesus is talking DIRECTLY to the disciples.. and no one else.. he is answering a singular question from them.

So when the Lord Jesus speaks of judging "all nations" when He returns to the earth here really means "one nation," not all the nations:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left... Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (Mt.25:31-33, 41).​

As I said earlier, the only thing which the preterists can do really well is to the pervert what the Scriptures actually says!

 

[HisServant]

So when the Lord Jesus speaks of judging "all nations" when He returns to the earth here really means "one nation," not all the nations:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left... Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (Mt.25:31-33, 41).​

As I said earlier, the only thing which the preterists can do really well is to the pervert what the Scriptures actually says!

No, you need to read the entire passage to discern that verse. What I see is God judging all the nations citizens individually... the tests and measuring stick he uses in verses after this (did you feed or cloth me, etc.) would be very hard to apply to nations as a whole. It also flies in the faces of other scriptures that say we are judged individually.

I think you also need to look at how historically God has dealt with Gentile nations... for the most part he left them alone unless they were inhabitants of Israel. He used them primarily as a rod to enact punishment against Israel for bad behavior.

Just as Paul states in Romans.. the promise of redemption has always been to those that exhibited the faith of Abraham. Ethnic Jews were never guaranteed redemption, what they were guaranteed was the land if they behaved (which they really had trouble doing).

Right now, there is no way for the people who call themselves Jews to have any claim on the Promised Land simply because their blood line lineages are lost.. because of their unfaithfulness God has divorced them and is under no obligation to help them. By his own law, he is no longer able to go back to them either (you cannot return to your first wife).

So the entire nebulous lost nation of Israel coming back from the dead and having any part in God's plans is slim to none.


Instead of saying that all this stuff is to happen in the future simply because do not understand the imagery, promises... maybe you should look back into the past for fulfillment then stop staring at the clouds and get about the business God placed you on their earth for. (feeding and clothing the sick and poor and teaching them the gospel). I don't notice any reward for being the most intellectual or having perfect doctrine, etc. We have a simple task, and by golly, its time Christians get off their keisters and get about doing God's work.

 

[Interplanner]

Are you not aware that the preterists teach that a first century generation saw the Lord Jesus' return?

You do not even understand what your own people teach proving once again that you are clueless.

This is where your credibility breaks down Jerry.

I'm a historian first, then theologian. Also not all preterists are identical; many are called partial preterist. Over at ChristianForums, the header of the Eschatology thread reads: Partial Preterists only. Because FP is too ridiculous to consider.

 

[tetelestai]

All we have are your assertions and nothing else.

Are we suppose to believe that this passage speaking of the time when the Lord Jesus returns in only speaking of Israelites?:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left... Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (Mt.25:31-33, 41).​

Jerry, until you can explain who the multitude of nations are in Gen 48:19 you don't have a leg to stand on.

(Gen 48:19 KJV) And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.

Tell us the multitude of nations that the descendants of Jacob, Joseph, and Ephraim became?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jerry, until you can explain who the multitude of nations are in Gen 48:19 you don't have a leg to stand on.

Of course you just IGNORED the verses which I quoted in the hope that no one will notice that you had no real answer to what I said.

 

[tetelestai]

Of course you just IGNORED the verses which I quoted in the hope that no one will notice that you had no real answer to what I said.

Jerry, I can show that every verse in your OP was fulfilled by Christ Jesus in 70AD.

You have cherry picked different verses to support your Dispensationalism, yet you have no answer for Gen 48:19.

I have asked you over and over again to explain Gen 48:19, and you ignore my request every time. If you did, you wouldn't keep copying and pasting verses that have the word "nations" in it.

Do you even know the difference between "fullness of the nations" and "times of the Gentiles"?

 

[Interplanner]

Tetestai,
please explain your reasons why all of B (after 'right after' in v29) is completely covered by 70 AD