Honest Answers.

[quip]

You tell me! Is ClimateSanity being honest, who said in response to your post; "No....that comment is a testament to your arrogance and corroborates with the self aggrandizement you seek through information?"

I assumed he believes he was being honest.

 

[S-word]

I assumed he believes he was being honest.

But do 'YOU' believe that ClimateSanity was being honest? Yes or no?

 

[quip]

But do 'YOU' believe that ClimateSanity was being honest? Yes or no?

Yes.

 

[Nihilo]

What happened to "Thou shall not...."?

Thou shalt not permit, an innocent person for whom you're responsible, to die or to come to serious injury, because you did nothing instead of kill the criminal.

There it is.

 

[quip]

Thou shalt not permit, an innocent person for whom you're responsible, to die or to come to serious injury, because you did nothing instead of kill the criminal.

There it is.

#11?

 

[Angel4Truth]

opcorn:

 

[Nihilo]

#11?

After 10 they're not really numbered but I would suspect somewhere in the hundreds and maybe over 1000, but definitely over 100.

 

[Lon]

Please be as civil as possible.

I will, but this site tends to let it all hang out (iow, not that kind of forum per say).

Hello, I am a 17 year old male from the UK, and was brought up an atheist. I'm posting on here to ask a pressing question of mine. To me I don't feel I require faith, or religion however I'd like to try and understand why people do, so please, share your stories, why or how you have come to faith and why you feel you need it?

A couple of points:

1) We all know we are not perfect and have broken our own norms.
2) We all have hurt others and ourselves
C.S. Lewis (highly recommended) called it the problem of pain. He said we know instinctively 'something isn't right.'
He uses a few proofs, but is that he believes it points to a need in man as well as creates a desire to know what happened and if anything can address it.

3) There is a god. Something is eternal. Importantly, we are aware of it. A cruel irony of nature, would be that we have a sense of the eternal, yet are consigned to a life of brief existence.
4) We all seek the eternal. We spend billions in science to see what's out there, to extend our lives, to enhance further the quality of it. We are collectively against anything that shortens life, even if individually illogically dissonant by our actions.
5) Things matter. There is absolutely no way this is possible without faith. Scientists deny this as anything other than a random 'survival of the fittest' BUT survival of the fittest would require purpose.
6) Nothing can only produce nothing. Evolutions says opposite, but they are being counter-intuitive at the moment. Things wind down, they do not build up 'unless' there is guidance, purpose, direction.
7) Since purpose exists in the universe, it has to have always existed in some form or another or it could not exist. Why? Because nothing new can exist in the universe. You can't build a spaceship from akronite for example.
8) 99+% of the world believes God exists. A good many of us because god or God has to exist. Something is eternal. We have meaning, so something has to have meaning etc.
9) Why Christianity? Simply because if there is a God, the one religion where God purports to come to man, would have to be the right one.
Some of this imho, is irrefutable. Some of it rather demands further investigation as a postulate or derivative of evidence seen. Hebrews 11:1

 

[Lon]

There is by now evidence from a variety of laboratories around the world using a variety of methodological techniques leading to the virtually inescapable conclusion that the cognitive-motivational styles of leftists and rightists are quite different. This research consistently finds that conservatism is positively associated with heightened epistemic concerns for order, structure, closure, certainty, consistency, simplicity, and familiarity, as well as existential concerns such as perceptions of danger, sensitivity to threat, and death anxiety. Source

Religion fits this to perfection.

Or as my signature alludes to....

Why's that....because I lack a "heightened epistemic concerns for order, structure, closure, certainty, consistency, simplicity, and familiarity"?

I couldn't agree more!

I'm not sure that's a good thing. A heightened knowledgeable concern of order, structure, closure, certainty, and consistency, I think is well advised, unless you are an anarchist. Even then, it better have a ordered structured closed certainty or another anarchist will be your anarchist to your new structure. If not, be happy with what you have and the relative freedom it affords? Just a thought.

 

[Stuu]

Instead, taxpaying Americans have little choice but to contribute to a massive secular charitable organization administered by our elected officials.

And how did they get elected? Did that involve no choice?

By contrast, if you believe that the 'Holy See' is a country, then it is the only theocratic dictatorship in Europe. Do those 'citizens' have any choice, given that they do not elect the pope?

Stuart

 

[Nihilo]

this site tends to let it all hang out

To [MENTION=595]Knight[/MENTION]'s credit, IMO. TOL has a good balance of rules and freedoms, meaning that TOL administration is right-sized, not too overarching, lording it over us, and not too little, like at Reddit, the mythical "Wild West" of internet discussion boards.

 

[Nihilo]

And how did they get elected? Did that involve no choice?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump

By contrast, if you believe that the 'Holy See' is a country, then it is the only theocratic dictatorship in Europe. Do those 'citizens' have any choice, given that they do not elect the pope?

The Vatican is the smallest sovereign nation on the earth, short of maybe a man-made oil-rig-like island somewhere, and the popes' temporal power there really only impacts Vatican citizens and non-ordained non-religious employees; and a lot of Vatican citizens are bishops, so they're where they want to be anyway.

The college of bishops was designed by the founder of the Catholic Church, and the founder's assistants implemented it, and the founder's assistants' successors maintain it and have always maintained it, with the popes being the quote-unquote first bishop among equals (all bishops are equal in the Church).

They are the religion's own authorities and so their report on matters such as ordination of women is authoritative. Religious liberty prevents any government from validly interfering in the administration of the Church, especially where but not only where, the Church's college of bishops confirm that the tradition they are practicing is Apostolic, meaning that it came from the founder's assistants themselves, and is not an addition to the Sacred Tradition of the Church. IOW religious liberty ought to apply also to those who no longer walk this earth, and not just us.

 

[quip]

A heightened knowledgeable concern of order, structure, closure, certainty, and consistency, I think is well advised, unless you are an anarchist.

Spoken like someone with an obvious conservative bias toward a "heightened knowledgeable concern of order, structure, closure, certainty, and consistency". You've just set the barriers....one must be of a similar, orderly persuasion else other an anarchist. :idunno:

Lon, can no middle ground be tread?

Truth be told (since this is a "truth" thread) I strive to maintain an equilibrium...even though I engage in polarizing positions for the sake of argument. Like begets like around these parts. :box:

 

[Lon]

Spoken like someone with an obvious conservative bias toward a "heightened knowledgeable concern of order, structure, closure, certainty, and consistency". You've just set the barriers....one must be of a similar, orderly persuasion else other an anarchist. :idunno:

You are afraid of it and against it, not me. I realize your statement is a political concern.

Lon, can no middle ground be tread?

The US is that middle ground. Where do you live?

Truth be told (since this is a "truth" thread) I strive to maintain an equilibrium...even though I engage in polarizing positions for the sake of argument. Like begets like around these parts. :box:

So you were just venting? Okay. The sentiment was there. -Lon

 

[quip]

You are afraid of it and against it, not me. I realize your statement is a political concern.

Afraid of extremism? Most certainly

The US is that middle ground. Where do you live?

I was asking personally....for each of us.

So you were just venting? Okay. The sentiment was there. -Lon

I wouldn't say 'just'. It's an ongoing dialectic.

 

[Lon]

Afraid of extremism? Most certainly

Yeah, but the desire for structure isn't actually extremism. Well, if on of the anarchist from the other side...

I was asking personally....for each of us.

To be honest, this is your world. I'm just trying to make it a better place while I'm here. In some ways, because of your views, you have more right to it than I. I am made for something else.

I wouldn't say 'just'. It's an ongoing dialectic.

One day I will have to read the Houseman quote in its context.
It is fascinating that he chose the world 'afraid.'

 

[quip]

Yeah, but the desire for structure isn't actually extremism. Well, if on of the anarchist from the other side...

I fear extremism on either side of the aisle. Especially when it masquerades as a normative belief system.

To be honest, this is your world. I'm just trying to make it a better place while I'm here. In some ways, because of your views, you have more right to it than I. I am made for something else.

That's no more than a flowery cop-out.

One day I will have to read the Houseman quote in its context.
It is fascinating that he chose the world 'afraid.'

Here's a link to the poem in question.

 

[Lon]

I fear extremism on either side of the aisle. Especially when it masquerades as a normative belief system.

That's no more than a flowery cop-out.

Here's a link to the poem in question.

Oddly, the poem about sums up our discussion, or vice-versa.

As to flowery cop-out :nono: I said I'll leave it a better place than when I found it.
I think you believe it true, perhaps, if memory serves. -Lon

 

[Angel4Truth]

Afraid of extremism? Most certainly


I was asking personally....for each of us.




I wouldn't say 'just'. It's an ongoing dialectic.

1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

Matthew 25:46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life.


Romans 10:9-10
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

[quip]

Hair of the dog.....?

Nah...I'll pass.