Homeschooling Robs Children

Lighthouse

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Comparing does not mean the same as equating, to me. I do understand that what I said could be taken wrong, as it was, but what Christine said could have as well. Anyone could have believed that she was equating them. But I am the only that pointed that out. But honestly, I just don't care. The bottom line is that Christine is wrong about public school. And I was wrong about homeschooling being better, in academics.
 

Christine

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Originally posted by lighthouse

Comparing does not mean the same as equating, to me. I do understand that what I said could be taken wrong, as it was, but what Christine said could have as well. Anyone could have believed that she was equating them. But I am the only that pointed that out. But honestly, I just don't care. The bottom line is that Christine is wrong about public school. And I was wrong about homeschooling being better, in academics.
Lighthouse, would you please explain what you mean of what I put in bold? :)
 

Lighthouse

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If you really want me to.

I always saw public school's biggest problem being that most teachers didn't care enough to be of any use. And because of that, most students didn't learn much of anything...and those of us who did only learned because we paid attention the first time and taught ourselves. I figured that a parent who cared enough to teach their own kids would be a better teacher than public school teachers. But I have seen homeschooled children use words, when writing, such as, "our," when the proper word is "are," or "seens," when the correct word is "scenes." So it seems that's not just a public school problem.
 

Christine

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Originally posted by lighthouse

If you really want me to.

I always saw public school's biggest problem being that most teachers didn't care enough to be of any use. And because of that, most students didn't learn much of anything...and those of us who did only learned because we paid attention the first time and taught ourselves. I figured that a parent who cared enough to teach their own kids would be a better teacher than public school teachers. But I have seen homeschooled children use words, when writing, such as, "our," when the proper word is "are," or "seens," when the correct word is "scenes." So it seems that's not just a public school problem.
Ahhh. Sometimes homeschoolers, such as myself :eek: , simply get in a hurry with their typing and aren't thinking about proper forms of words, etc. What they (and I) need to do is better proofread before we submit the "final" copy. Do some homeschoolers have educational problems, as we here of with public school students? Sure, but not as many homeschoolers have problems, because Dad and Mom can see where they need work early on. A teacher with a classroom full of students does not always recognize the signs.
 

Turbo

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Originally posted by lighthouse

If you really want me to.

I always saw public school's biggest problem being that most teachers didn't care enough to be of any use. And because of that, most students didn't learn much of anything...and those of us who did only learned because we paid attention the first time and taught ourselves. I figured that a parent who cared enough to teach their own kids would be a better teacher than public school teachers. But I have seen homeschooled children use words, when writing, such as, "our," when the proper word is "are," or "seens," when the correct word is "scenes." So it seems that's not just a public school problem.
It sounds like you're basing your conclusions on a few anecdotal cases. Wouldn't it make more sense to look for statistical comparisons of homeschoolers vs. public schoolers?
 

firechyld

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It sounds like you're basing your conclusions on a few anecdotal cases. Wouldn't it make more sense to look for statistical comparisons of homeschoolers vs. public schoolers?

It would, but it's difficult to get an accurate comparison. The data pools are so dramatically different in size that it skews the results.
 

SOTK

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Originally posted by Turbo

She didn't! :doh:

Christine just said that firsthand experience is not necessary to have a valid opinion or engage in a debate on either topic.

I would add that it's not fair to dismiss someone's views on public/homeschooling just because that person isn't a parent. That form of argument is similar to when pro-aborts say that men shouldn't speak out against abortion because they can't get pregnant, or that women who have never experienced a "crisis pregnancy" are in no position to condemn abortion.

I am NOT saying that sending your kids to public school is the moral equivalent of abortion. But hopefully we all agree that abortion is wrong and no one here would not to me, Christine, lighthouse, or SOTK speaking out against abortion regardless of the pro-abort's preference that we keep silent.

SOTK, I've been meaning to give you a call about this. (My computer's keyboard is messed up so I haven't been posting much.) We are to love our neighbor and hold back those who are wandering toward the slaughter, and in Christine's mind that is what she is doing. Christine believes that sending kids to public school is wrong and endangers kids, and you disagree. You two can debate who is right and who is mistaken if you want, but telling Christine and others (including myself) that we should stay silent because we are not parents is off-base.

Like I said, I was planning on calling you about this, but I'd decided to post it here in hopes of making Christine's point more clear to lighthouse. (Deja vu, eh? ;))

Turbo,

I wasn't initially going to reply to your post, because I had decided to bow out of this thread and argument. It was painfully obvious to me, and I think some others as well, that this wasn't going any where. I have reservations that what I am about to say will probably go unheard as well. Be that as it may, I wanted to try posting one more time in the hopes that my point or points will be clear.

First of all, I have never fully stated nor felt that people's opinions regarding certain subjects should be dismissed due to the fact that they haven't had firsthand experience with said subject, however, with certain subjects I believe it can sure weaken that person's argument when they haven't had firsthand experience. Also, it can make them look like a jerk especially when they begin to pass judgement on me. Abortion, I believe, is a moral issue and a poor example to use when trying to show that a male can have an opinion on this. Abortion is a far cry away from the subject of homeschooling and Public Education. Also, statistics are much more concrete when using them as evidence to bolster an opinion on the destructive nature of abortion. I don't believe this is necessarily the case with the Public Education debate.

For example, do you know the success rate or statistics regarding the specific Elementary School my children attend in the community in which I live in the Northwest? Have you been to that school? Have you met with my children's teacher? Have you volunteered in that classroom? Have you met with that Elementary School's Principal? Do you know what their curriculum is? Did you know that this school has offered to let my oldest child skip a grade because she is at a higher learning level? Did you know that this School District has honor classes at a different school for kids who are learning at an accelerated rate? Did you know that this School District has math labs and individualized reading programs for kids that are having a hard time keeping up? Furthermore, were you aware that my middle child had reading difficulties last year but with the help of her parents and her one on one reading teacher she overcame this problem?

The answer to all these questions is a resounding "NO", yet you and others have an extremely negative opinion on Public Education because you have read statistics and apparently know the truth. This is what I have meant by generalizations. You guys can not account for specific parents, specific schools, specific school districts, specific cities, specific states, and specific kids. Some of you, who don't have kids yet, may have investigated your communities school district and local schools, but I am willing to wager that a lot of you haven't. Most of you have no idea what they are like nor what issues may arise because you are not there yet! I AM there! I am a parent! I have been there through every step of the way. I know exactly what Public Education is like, because I have experienced it from a parent's perspective. Have you?

Furthermore, I would never pass judgement on another parent because they chose a different educational option for their children. Who am I to do such a thing? I am not them and their kids are not my kids. I have said from the beginning that there is nothing wrong with homeschooling. As I have told Nori, heck, I would homeschool if I ever detected the slightest hint of inadequacy in my children's education. I have no problem with Christine, Nori, Crow, Poly, you, or anybody else feeling that homeschooling is the best option for a child's education. That is not my issue. Let me repeat, that is NOT my issue. You are all entitled to your opinions, however, when you begin to pass judgement on me or blast others who also have chosen the Public School route without knowing all the facts, you are wong! It's arrogant, inappropriate, and disrespectful. There are more appropriate ways to convince people and more appropriate ways to communicate a position.

You mentioned that Christine says that sending kids to public schools endangers them and that I say they don't. I hope you see now that I don't think it is as simple as that nor do I think that all Public Schools are safe or that all Public Schools are dangerous. This goes back to my previous statements that whether or not a parent sends their kids to Public Schools is a personal decision. Hopefully, a decision which the parents investigate extensively. The bottom line is that Christine has no idea whether or not the school in which I send my kids is dangerous or not. Neither do you. You guys know nothing about this school nor nothing about my kids. Since you are not parents nor a member of my family, your opinion about my decision to send my kids to Public School matters little to me. Hopefully, especially given the manner in which these opinions were communicated as well, you can see why I would be inclined to "dismiss" them. This subject went from being a matter of debate to something personal. Turbo, I can't understand why you don't see that.

As far as your comments about "holding the neighbor back from the slaughter", sorry, but I find that paranoid as well as a scare tactic meant to "push" me into your side of the argument. Hint: It doesn't work. Instead, it pisses me off. Again, there are more appropriate ways to communicate your positions. I know this because there have been a few posters, Nori is one, who has expressed their opinion about homeschooling in a much more conducive and non-judgemental way.

You may call me if you like, Turbo, but my feelings and opinion will be the same.

SOTK
 
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Lighthouse

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Right on, SOTK!
:thumb:

Christine-
I think that private tutoring is the best thing, academically...because I believe that the teacher should be a great teacher, who is educated in the area of education. And can work more closely with the students. omeschooling usually implies that one or more of the parents does the teaching. I do not think that is always best, because parents are not always good teachers. Even one on one. My dad used to try to help my stepsister with her homework. He was no help, because she didn't get it...no matter how hard he tried. He got frustrated. He was not the right person to teach her. And I don't think he would have been any good at teaching me. My mother doesn't think she is very smart, so I don't think she would have felt competent enough to teach me, or my brothers. And I think the best thing that happened to me was that I went to private Christian schools for four years, pre-school through second grade.
 

ebenz47037

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SOTK is right about public schools. I talked to him and his wife on the phone last night. I've made my judgements on public schools due to my experience with them as a parent. I do not take anyone's word for it.

Without knowing anything about his childrens' school, I told him and his wife that my opinion is that homeschooling is the best thing for children. And, I highly encouraged him and his wife to do so, if they can.

Even after they told me what their childrens' school is like, I encouraged them to homeschool, based on my own experiences with public schools as a parent. As a parent of a fourteen year old, I have yet to see one good public school. That doesn't mean they don't exist. It just makes it harder for me to believe that they exist.
 

Lighthouse

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I've encouraged him to do the same, but mostly on a financial basis. Because private schools are too expensive.
 

ebenz47037

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Originally posted by lighthouse

I've encouraged him to do the same, but mostly on a financial basis. Because private schools are too expensive.

Yep. I speak from experience there as well. :)
 

Poly

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Originally posted by lighthouse



omeschooling usually implies that one or more of the parents does the teaching. I do not think that is always best, because parents are not always good teachers.
Parents are made to think that after potty training their child, teaching him to walk and talk, teaching him his ABCs, to eat with utensils along with instructing him in many other important areas in his early childhood development, suddenly they are too stupid to continue teaching him after he turns 5 and have no other choice but to let somebody else do it. Nobody knows my child better than I do. Nobody knows his learning style better than I do. I fail to find in scripture where God tells us to be sure and let somebody else instruct our children after they reach a certain age because we will no longer be able to do it. I'll be the first one to admit that when my children reached high school it took much more studying on my part in certain subjects in order to get the job done but it is getting done. It's up to the parents to do whatever necessary in making sure their child is learning what they feel is important in his development and preparing him to become a productive and responsible adult. And today there are other options if the parent is having real difficulty in instructing his/her child in certain areas. There are co-ops, tutors, video instructional tapes and homeschool groups where moms are willing to swap subjects with other moms who have an easier time teaching it.

I went to the high school that my kids would now be attending if they weren't being homeschooled. I know that they are getting a much better education at home.
 
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firechyld

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Poly: Do you feel that there is any part of a high school curriculum that you would be completely unable to teach your child?
 

Poly

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Originally posted by firechyld

Poly: Do you feel that there is any part of a high school curriculum that you would be completely unable to teach your child?
So far? No. But if that ends up being the case, there are other options I will have other than sending them to public schools.

Originally posted by lighthouse

Poly, you just reaffirmed what I said.

You mentioned that Parents aren't always the best teachers. You're reaffirming what I said if, in saying "not always" you're meaning, most of the time they are but if they aren't, they should seek out some of the other options I listed.
 
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Christine

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Here is a very good article by Elizabeh Farah; all government education teaches false religion.
Pulling kids out of government schools, part 1

by Elizabeth Farah

© 2001 WorldNetDaily.com


My last column concluded with this charge (in part):

“All parents who are married and have no extraordinary circumstances to prevent them from doing so, should today remove their children from the government school system.�

I promised I would defend this “outrageous� statement – I’m going to address only one of many reasons in this column today.

Parents should take their kids out of government school because government education is not possible. "Government education" is an oxymoron. The object of teaching is the transmission of truth, which is reality. A synonym for the word “teach� is “indoctrinate.� Another good term is to “propagate� or “propagandize,� which is the teaching of any system of principles. You can see the problem I have with any government indoctrinating or propagandizing children. It is inherently immoral and un-American to charge the government with this responsibility.

Let’s next answer the question, “Why do we send children to school?� The correct answer is “to become educated.� We will define education in a minute, but first, let us examine incorrect answers to the question. If you said: babysitting, socialization, behavior modification, or “a place to go to until the child is an adult� your reasoning is wrong, but this perverted reasoning is the natural outcome of resting the role of educator in the hands of the government and it has replaced true education entirely today.

Now let's define education. The best definition is found in Webster’s 1828 dictionary (available on CD Rom from ShopNetDaily):

EDUCATION, n [Latin educatio] The bringing up, as of a child; instruction; formation of manners. Education comprehends [encompasses] all that series of instruction and discipline which is intended to enlighten the understanding, correct the temper, and form the manners and habits of youth, and fit them for usefulness in their future stations. To give children a good education in manners, arts and science, is important; to give them a religious education is indispensable; and an immense responsibility rests on parents and guardians who neglect these duties.

Is Noah Webster correct? Yes he is. It is not a matter of opinion; it is the truth which is knowable. Before we go further, let's look at the definition given by today’s Merriam-Webster Collegiate Dictionary Online:

Education
1 a: the action or process of educating or of being educated; also : a stage of such a process b : the knowledge and development resulting from an educational process [a man of little education]
2 : the field of study that deals mainly with methods of teaching and learning in schools

That sound you hear is Noah Webster spinning in his grave. This is the dictionary your government school children and teachers use. You see, someone has to decide which books and reference materials are used in the schools. They are selected by the state. The history books, philosophy books, science books are all selected by the government! Even the definition of words becomes a de facto function of government. This is most appalling because education is a decidedly religious activity. Why? All human endeavor is constrained, informed, defined and imprinted with the worldview of the individual or institution. And worldview is a belief system determined by religious belief. What is religious belief? It is defined by the answers given to a few questions:


What is the purpose of life?
What happens when we die?
How did life come into being?
Your answers to these questions determine how you approach every single endeavor of your life. All institutions have a worldview too, and it affects every single endeavor in which they engage.

Therefore, the simple act of defining the word “education� requires judgment (read worldview). OK you say, just don’t teach anything which requires worldview judgments. That is impossible; let's see why. Take history class as an example:

Student: Was Hitler right to kill Jews?
Teacher: No
Student: Why?
Teacher: Because it is wrong to kill innocent people.
Student: Why?
Teacher: Because everyone has the right to live!
Student: Why? [This is where it gets sticky. The answer is determined solely by your worldview – read, “religion�]
Teacher: Because God says so. [Now this is the correct answer – but we can’t talk about the reality of God in government schools so. …]

Teacher: Because it is against the law!
Student: Why?
Teacher: Because the government says so!
Student: What if the government says it is OK?
Teacher: But the government wouldn’t say that!
Student: The government of Germany did.

Conclusion: Because our system forbids government to teach morality, it cannot teach about the Holocaust. To take the concept of immorality out of the subject of the Holocaust is impossible without denying truth.

Education by definition requires the search for truth. Therefore government must teach about immorality. Which the government can’t do. Therefore, the government can’t teach.

http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=24156
 

1PeaceMaker

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I just wanted to comment/ask, being a young mother who was partly homeschooled -

Is training up a child a part time or fulltime job?

We know if we train them up right, they will not depart from the right way.

Pr 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.
 

Christine

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Originally posted by lighthouse

That article has excellent points, Christine.
Thanks Lighthouse. The reason I posted it was that the author was showing how public education is a false religion, and anti-Christian. This would make it wrong to send children to public school, regardless of where you live, what school it is, etc. Would you like to see Part Two?
 

Lighthouse

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I was especially interested in the part about how "government education" is an oxymoron. I know I was miles ahead of the rest of the kids in my grade, when I entered public school, but [since the public school was too ignorant to figure that out] I got screwed.
 
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