Homeschooling Opponents
- Thread starter ebenz47037
- Start date
skeptech said:
Yep! I totally agree. The public system is there for everyone. Homeschooling is elitist. Homeschooling works best for the better educated rich folk and least for the undereducated poor folk. A poor undereducated person will be struggling to homeschool to anywhere near the standard of a public school.
Public education is like how Catholics see "Mother Church" ... she may be a whore but she's our mother.
docrob57 said:
Utter ratbaggery!
It is again a matter of right wing fundamentalist Christians discriminating against the poor.
The poor matter. Read how mnany times Jesus mentions the poor in his stories.
No poverty stricken family can homeschool effectively. Homeschooling is an elitist activity.
I'm reminded of a family who were right wing fundamentalist Christian doctors (husband and wife) at a Christian school I taught who drove around in their multiple BMWs. They asked their 10 year old daughter what she would like to do for he birthday. She replied" I'd like to see the slums, Mummy and Daddy. It would be so much fun. I've never seen a slum before." So they drove in their BMW around the poorer parts of town looking out of their tinted windows.
ebenz47037 said:
Homeschoolers can't teach so they HIRE professional educators.
Defeats the purpose of homeschooling, doesn't it?
ebenz47037 said:
The blind leading the blind.
ebenz47037 said:
More homeschool propaganda!
Most homeschool out of FEAR of the public schools.
FEAR is not a good reason to homeschool.
Fear is also what started off Christian schooling in the 50s .... mainly fear of intergration of white folks with black folks.
ebenz47037 said:
The right wing Fundamentalist Dark Age is all about CONTROL.
##########################################################
In our times, various ideologically dedicated groups increasingly use
censorship, coercion, or propaganda to limit access to ideas, literature,
and the arts that they consider threatening. p.74
Censorship, the twin brother of propaganda, is the tool of despots, of
ideologues, of ayatollahs, of fanatics. p.96
Franky Schaeffer "Sham Pearls For Real Swine" ( Wolgemuth & Hyatt;
Brentwood:1990) [Francis Schaeffer's son & Susan Schaeffer Macaulay's
brother]
##########################################
The Fundamentalist Dark Age wants to control what teachers teach children.
Instead of real science they want spuedoscience creationism.
Instead of real music they want Jesus Jingles.
Instead of real art they want God Ads.
Instead of real history trhey want bible myths.
Right wing Fundamentalist Christianity seems particularly dumbed down, silly, irrational, illogical and irrelevant to daily life. It is about the dumbing down of Christianity and education.
The dumbing down of Christianity and education is achieved by:
- pietism: the wrong belief that praise and worship are the sum of Christian
life
- flesh fetish: the wrong belief , based on Platonism, that spirit and the
physical world are separated with the spiritual world being of more value.
- the exclusion of reasoning from Christian discourse: the wrong belief that
one should forget the use of one's mind and irrationally believe anything
that is said in the bible.
- bibliolatry: the wrong belief that one should worship of the finite
fallible bible over the infinite infallible God
- fundamentalist cloning: the wrong belief that one can only be a Christian
if one is a fundamentalist
It seems Christians are more interested in Christian lite than Christian life.
deardelmar said:
Marriage lasts an average of 12 years in Australia (this takes in Christians as well)
How do you teach about God the father to kid that has had an abusive father ... or an absent father?
How many televangelists got caught cheating???????
Again, the bolded statement is wrong. Again it is your foundational statement and thus destroys your argument.Strooth said:
The poor do well with homeschooling whenever it is looked at.
But really, we need to get to the fundamental problem; the government has no business teaching children. The parents must have the right to homeschool or private school as they wish. You can have public school as long as there is no public support (taxes) and no truancy laws.
ebenz47037 said:
Minimum standards ensure the LEAST have some sort of education. Without minimum standards the least have NO education whatsoever.
docrob57 said:
I disagree. Everyone should have access to education at all levels based solely up[on ability and not $$$$ money$$$$. Dumbing down is a major factor of the religious right as I have stated elsewhere. What can be dumber than ignoring real science and opting for psuedocience creationism????
NonChristians are becoming more educated while Christians are becoming the least educated.
docrob57 said:
The problem is CONTROL.
The Fundamentalist Dark Age seeks control at all levels.
Education is about gaining knowledge, the search truth and questioning ... all things that many of the religious right abhor! (because they erroneously think they don't need any more knowledge, they have all the truth and that qyuestioning is evil ... one shopuld just obey what is dictated by the religious right!)
There needs to be standardisation in education for the LEAST.
The religious right don't care about the least but are self centred.
Highline said:
The main factors are:
1. Education levels of the parents are usually higher than the average public school parents
2. The income levels are considerablyt higher than public school parents.
A combination of both means a better education that can be bought.
It has nothing to do with care levels.
Poor uneducated parents can care as much but cannot homeschool to the same standard.
Homeschooling is elitist.
How do you treat the least in your society? How do you ensure the least have a good education?
docrob57 said:
Rubbish!
This is part of the dumbing down of Christianity in the Fundamentalist Dark Age!
The only Christians who object to real science and evolution are fundamentalists who prefer psuedoscience creationism based on an ancient collection of books ... the bible!
The only Christians who object to sex educatiuon are fundamentalists though fundamentalist pastors are notorious for their sexual dalliances with their church secreatries and prostitutes and fundamentalists have to re-interpret the erotic Song of Solomon for their pious sensibilities!
########################################################
"Fit Bodies, Fat Minds: Why Evangelicals don't think and what to do about
it" ( Baker Books; Grand Rapids:1994) - Os Guiness
p. 9 -11
...a leading problem in American evangelicalism - anti-intellectualism.
Anti-intellectualism is a disposition to discount the importance of truth
and the life of the mind. ...evangelicals have toned up their bodies and
dumbed down their minds. The result! Many suffer from a modern form of
what the ancient stoics called "mental hedonism" - having fit bodies but fat
minds. ...At root, evangelical anti-intellectualism is both a scandal and a
sin. It is a scandal in the sense of being an offense and a stumbling block
that needlessly hinders serious people from considering the Christian faith
and coming to Christ. it is a sin because it is a refusal, contraruy to the
first of Jesus' two great commandments, to love the Lord our God with all
our minds.
p. 12
Bertrand Russell mocked, "Most Christians would rather die than think - in
fact they do!"
p. 15
Not surprisingly the disarray and frustration is deepest in evangelicals who
think - whether they do so for a living, such as academics, or those who do
so for the love of it, such as artists.
p. 16
Those more educated now tend to be sighnificantly less religious, those more
religious tend to be significantly less educated.
p. 17 - 18
... evangelicals have relied upon populist strengths and rhetoric rather
than addressing the gatekeepers of modern society ... evangelicals have
chosen to rely on a rhetoric of protest, pronouncement, and picketing rather
than persuasion.
p. 25
... slow retreat from the Christin mind to the creation of a "ghost mind."
.... slow rise of a mass mind and the creation of an "idiot culture."
p. 30
The false antagonisms of that sort of either / or thinking have become a
standard feature of evangelicalism ... In terms of a Christin mind, we
evangelicals characteristically pit "heart" versus "head" and opt for the
heart as the more spiritual choice.
p. 31
... "heart" in the Bible is more a matter of understanding than sentiment -
so "heart" versus "head' is a false choice.
p. 32
John Wesley , the founder of Methodism, had said, "It is a fundamental
principal with us that to renounce reason is to renounce religion, that
religion and reason go hand in hand, that irrational religion is false
religion."
p. 62
...evangelical artists - and poets, scriptwriters, sculptors, dancers and
actors - as the least understood and most alienated single group of people
in the evangelical churches.
p. 72
... the inability to read anything but the shallowest texts is equally
widespread. ... the body of Christ often gives the appearance of the
uncontrolled movements of a paraplegic.
p. 143
A fourth misconception concerns the idea tht thinking Christianly is a form
of uniformity - in other words, that if we all think Christianly we will all
think the same way. Whe this happens, the goal of thinking Christinly
collapses into a frantic search for the one particular correct way of
thinking or acting. The result is he fallacy of "particularism", the
uniformity of a particular "Christianly Correct" way of thinking.
...[particularism] denies two requirements of thinking Christianly that
oppose all uniformity: the importance of diversity and the fact of human
fallibility.
p. 143 - 144
For another thing, applying the idea of uniformity is disastrous because it
leads inevitably to legalsim and judgementalism. There is only a short and
easy step from "This is the Christian way" to "There is only one Christian
way" to "Anything different from this Christian way is not Christian" to
"All those who differ fom my way are not Christians".
p. 151
One of the greatest sadnesses of a thinking evangelical is knowing the
thousands who have left, and are still leaving, evangelicalism because
evangelicals do not think.
docrob57 said:
Why do Christian homeschoolers choose some of the worst resources ever produced????
It is NOT good just because a Christian wrote it!!!!!
Look for quality. A Beka is NOT quality. (Neither is the Robinson garbage.)
Have you ever wondered why professional teachers never use this garbage?????
It is part of the dumbing down of Christianity during the Fundamentalist Dark Age.
Melody said:
All biased with their own agendas.
Anyone relying on anything from Bob Jones "University" needs their head read.
These are all part of the dumbing doiwn of Christianityt in the Fundamentalist Dark Age.
In fact there are NO reliable statistics on the quality of homeschooling. All research so far has had major flaws regarding sampling.
Nineveh said:
How many degrees in education does the average homeschooler have?
#######################################
Homeskool as DIY Brainsurgery
The worst examples of homeschool are amateurish "I feel I can teach it so
I'll have a go and see what happens".
It is like DIY brain surgery - "I FEEL I can do brain surgery so I will
experiment on my kids to find out"
From a DIY homeskoolun' Mom ................
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Surgery isn't something for professionals only. Anyone can do it. It's
just carving up meat.
Us DIY surgeons don't want any government interference with our surgery.
Its our kids we are operating on and we know what's best for the little
buggers. I own my kids so I can experiment on them as I wish. I especially
like experiements using electricty, bare wires and a power socket.
I went to hospital once so I know everything about DIY brain surgery. I've
also watched a lot of soap operas about hospitals. I've read several DIY
brain surgery books and even attended several DIY brain surgery seminars.
Its very easy to do brain surgery as it comes naturally to everyone.
Everyone is born with the ability to do brain surgery because everyone can
use a knife. I use a knife every day to cut up my own food and my kid's
food. That proves that I'm qualified to do DIY brain surgery.
Scalpel? I don't need a scapel. I've got a steak knife and its sharp
enough. If it doesn't cut through I can always use the chain saw.
Anaesthetic? That's just fancy professional doctor stuff. You don't need
it. You just hit the kid over the head with your steel reinforced KJV
bible. That knocks 'em out.
If you really know your child well you can just ask where it hurts, open up
their head, operate and stitch it back up with some cotton and a few safety
pins. It works just as good as that fancy medical professional stuff.
I don't need to assess or diagnose whether DIY brainsurgery is needed or
not. I like doing it and the kids turn out a whole lot better after I'm
finished. I just ask Junior "You got a headche, Junior?" or "Are you
thinking again?" and if Junior's head wobbles or Junior's head is a bit pale
I operate.
What's really neat is that you can use the leftovers for a family casserole
meal. The kids love it! Great big juicy brain blobs deep fried! Yummy!
Here we go!
Oops!
Made a mistake!
Better take them to a DIY brain surgery hospital.
Oops!
The DIY brain surgery hospital made a mistake!
Better send the kids to a real hospital with professional doctors who know
what they are doing.
Oops!
Too late!
The kids are dead.
Oh well ...
Time to make some more kids so I can continue my career as a DIY surgeon.
ebenz47037 said:
By their fruit you will know them.
ebenz47037 said:
They don't at misc.education.home-school.christian. They spend all their time trying convince others about how bad public schools are - the FEAR motivation ... and gossipping about professional educators such as myself.
ebenz47037 said:
They are not honest and truthful. Over the last 30 years my feloow colleagues (including universtity lecturers) and I have experienced kids from homeschools landing on our public school and Christian school doorsteps and we are supposed to reverse the damage done to them instantaneously. Most of the Christian ones are indoctrinated in psuedoscience creationism and aren't allowed to read the literature every other kid is reading ...nor see the same films or art or even look at other religions or cultures. That is child abuse!
ebenz47037 said:
It's a Furphy!
You don't make converts to homeschooling through FEAR.
The same tactics were used in Australian Christian schools regarding the "secular humanism" of public schools. When I first entered Christian schooling after being a public school teacher (and evangelical at the time) for over a decade I was subjected to aseries of lectures on "secular humanism" for newbies. Asd a philosophy graduate I thought the whole lot was lame and ignorant. The guiy pinched all he said from a fundamentalist book which misquoted many of the major philosophers and ignored the fact that philosophy was once the handmaiden to theology. When, after being asked by the Head of Christian Community Schools Australia, Rev Bob Frisken, to rewrite their manual to set up their schools across Australia ( a task I completed well ahead of time) I was offered the role of Editor of all their publications ... which I turned down. I had a long talk with Bob on the problems as I saw them in Christian schooling ... one being their dreadful publications which had things like censored Renaissance artworks (no naughty bits shown in their reproductions). Some Christian schools banned a book about kids travelling through time and space after hearing something through a crystal set - the Task Force J books by Richard Ansoul. They claimed the books were "New Age" because it mentioned a crystal . Richard Ansoul is in fact a Baptist minister and a friend of mine! etc etc etc (lots of problems about art and science in Christian schools ... and Christian homeschools)
I then got onto philosophy of education and the problems with the induction. He largely agreed with me. Christian schools were so foicussed on the Christian part that they had ignored the education dimension which is the main part about any type of schooling. One of the "triumvirate" of Christian schooling in Australia was the late David Magill (an ex-banker) who had no qualification ion education yet expected teachers to do as he dictated. I had words with him regarding the crumby curriculum that he had condoned at a particular school and how the maths program was 30 years out of date! (Yet he still offered me the role of Editor after that)
I have taught sales to adults.
To sell something you don't tear down the opposition. (Though that is the standard approach in both Christian schools anbd Christian homeschools.)
To sell something you do not describe the features (Though that is common in both Christian schools anbd Christian homeschools.)
To sell something you must demonstrate a BENEFIT to the person in having what you are trying to sell. That benefit may be different for every person.
Christians have not understood that in their advertising for church or for Christian schooling.
ebenz47037 said:
Australia Christian Community High Schhool, Sydney, did a survey of students after their first decade. Not a lot different from any other type of schooling.
I know kids who have gone through Christian schooling and have ended up as drug addicts, pregnant and in trouble with the police. It provides no protection whatsoever from the realities of life. The same is true of homeschooling. The problem is that there are no reliable statistics on homeschooling outcomes in this area.
Like Christian Schools all you here is propaganda and bluff from the rabid homeschoolers.
SO .... instead of endlessly rehashing the FEAR component to drive people into homeschooling I'd rather talk about ACTUAL practice in homeschooling.
Talking FEAR up against public schools is not selling the benefits of homeschooling.
To be homest and truthful one also has to talk about the disadvantages of homeschooling as well as the benefits because BOTH exist whether you like to admit it or not. It is far better that people be fully informed about pros and CONS before going into homeschooling.
Yorzhik said:
Rubbish!
Quote author, article, journal, date.
You will find that a vast majority are fundamentalists trying to prove their case!
I also call you on how character". What are the criteria for character and how is it objectively measured?