ECT He shall save His people from their sins

Interplanner

Well-known member
Mr. DingleBerry is now Mr. Equivocation. Good work.

The new heaven and the new earth are BOTH yet future (no matter how badly you twist the scripture).

2Pet 3:13 (AKJV/PCE)
(3:13) Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Peter was STILL LOOKING FOR them.

Stop embarrassing yourself and accept the truth of scripture instead of your fairy story.




Still looking, as I am, because we are in THIS life.

You are professional accuser and insulter without any theological sense or kindness. Who turned you into that?

But the city...that is close to us all, and Christ is called the new creation, and the 'state' of a Christian group that is not clunking around in disputes between circ and uncirc is also the new creation.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
And yet you said this:


You are a confused and double-minded man DB.




This is the age of overlap: the new has come but the old has not yet disappeared. That is why there are even originals of the Greek text with both readings, such as: Jn 4:23 or Heb 9:11. Your familiarity with the Bible is at some distance, not up close! It seems God is not nearly concerned with grammar as we are on these things. It is a case of both/and, not either/or. The new city, especially, already matters.
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
This is the age of overlap: the new has come but the old has not yet disappeared. That is why there are even originals of the Greek text with both readings, such as: Jn 4:23 or Heb 9:11. Your familiarity with the Bible is at some distance, not up close! It seems God is not nearly concerned with grammar as we are on these things. It is a case of both/and, not either/or. The new city, especially, already matters.

Oh.
 

Danoh

New member
Firstly, is English not your first language? YOUR interpretations are CRAP.

Then new heaven and the new earth will still have a NEW JERUSALEM.... guess where it will be.

You are a babbling idiot.

Believe it or not, his point, by his "ARe we supposed to take the 'plain meaning' of crap or is it a figure of speech?" was his own stating of the principle that things that differ, are not the same.

He was not asking you to explain what you'd meant.

His was a rhetorical question (a statement made via a question).

This is why I have been going on about the importance of rules of grammar (only for some so poor at the following that they have concluded I am referring to "the Greek").

Because in the absence of going back and forth with one another in person; a wrong conclusion is often easily arrived at, if various rules of grammar for the proper arriving at intended meaning, are not considered before allowing oneself, one's conclusion.

It's something I have become even more aware of in my short time on TOL.

Where much from many sides too often points to a failure in the awareness of how governing principles like case, mood, tense, and so on, function within words towards allowing one to properly arrive at their writer's intended meaning.

This is what has allowed me to understand what IP is saying, despite my disagreement with many of his conclusions.

The thing I have been going on about - about that I have referred to as "ALMOST 28er," and or Acts 9/Acts 28 Hybrid (another brother's name for that) has been about this issue.

About what the absence of rules of grammar can result in.

I've not pointed this out in an attempt to malign, say, an STP.

Rather, I have merely sought to point this out.

Only to have it taken wrong - for the very reason I have just pointed it out once more - either out of the carelessness in some in their observance of the above principle, or simply their unawareness of said principle.

This is where even people who each assert they hold to Acts 9, end up at different understandings.

The failure of one or the other Bible "student," to have slowed down some, to seriously consider what rules of grammar for the communication of intended meaning through said rules...one word or another, a phrase, a passage, one chapter, or another, might be following.

Anyway, out of my observation that you have at times been at least a bit more level headed in some things, than others I have observed on these issues, I thought I would use your above as a means of pointing out what I have been going on about.
 

Danoh

New member
This is the age of overlap: the new has come but the old has not yet disappeared. That is why there are even originals of the Greek text with both readings, such as: Jn 4:23 or Heb 9:11. Your familiarity with the Bible is at some distance, not up close! It seems God is not nearly concerned with grammar as we are on these things. It is a case of both/and, not either/or. The new city, especially, already matters.

Considering that a child's instinctive gradual pick up on and use of the more basic rules of grammar is inborn; I'd say you are guessing at...once more.

The Spirit cannot but communicate to man via doing so to the very instinct for rules of grammar that the LORD obviously created in Adam.

For whether God's "Thou shalt not" to Adam, had been via "a sense of" that, or in actual words to him, either way, some built in impulse in Adam for a sense of order and sequence would have been needed in him, if he was to make out what the LORD had meant by said "Thou shalt not."

You are actually arguing in favor evolution :chuckle:

God is not the author of chaos, rather; of order.

And the Earth WAS without form.

In other words; in chaos; or void of anything even remotely resembling inteligent order - this goes, here, that over there, then this, and then this...
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Then you're saying He IS the author of confusion.




No, that He is doing something that grammar can get fall short of: overlapping 2 ages, in Christ. Some things are 'inexpressible' but not confusing. What is confusing is a person like Jerry speaking about the OT as though the NT had not happened, yet clearly living now in the NT era.
 

Right Divider

Body part
This is the age of overlap: the new has come but the old has not yet disappeared. That is why there are even originals of the Greek text with both readings, such as: Jn 4:23 or Heb 9:11. Your familiarity with the Bible is at some distance, not up close! It seems God is not nearly concerned with grammar as we are on these things. It is a case of both/and, not either/or. The new city, especially, already matters.
The new heaven and the new earth have NOT come yet. There is no "partial" fulfillment of that.

Your fairy story is just so twisted!
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
The new heaven and the new earth have NOT come yet. There is no "partial" fulfillment of that.

Your fairy story is just so twisted!




He's done purifying heaven, Heb 9:23-28. But no, not the earth. He is called the new creation in 2 Cor 5. There is nothing twisted about it, as in satanic where some form of Satan gets a foothold. I just happen to find your reading very straitjacketed, neo-Judaistic, uptight and sometimes glaringly hostile to the grammar.
 

Right Divider

Body part
He's done purifying heaven, Heb 9:23-28. But no, not the earth. He is called the new creation in 2 Cor 5. There is nothing twisted about it, as in satanic where some form of Satan gets a foothold. I just happen to find your reading very straitjacketed, neo-Judaistic, uptight and sometimes glaringly hostile to the grammar.
The fact that you think that there is some "partial" new heaven and new earth continues to show how terrible your "understanding" of the Bible is.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Well, if the heavens and the city are ready, that's 2 of 3. Everything is made new in Christ, so that leaves only the earth as not being in Christ, which we know.

Each of us as individual believers spread the aroma of life wherever we go because we are in Christ. But that will not stop us from dying one day, when this life and world will be over for us. So it is about overlapping.
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
He's done purifying heaven
That's not true! According to Paul, there are "principalities,powers, rulers of the darkness of this world, spiritual wickedness in high places" (Ephesians 6:12 KJV) identified as "the prince of the power of the air"/ "the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience" in Ephesians 2:2 KJV, "the god of this world" in 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 KJV).
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
That's not true! According to Paul, there are "principalities,powers, rulers of the darkness of this world, spiritual wickedness in high places" (Ephesians 6:12 KJV) identified as "the prince of the power of the air"/ "the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience" in Ephesians 2:2 KJV, "the god of this world" in 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 KJV).

IP makes it up as he goes...
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
All who are truly God's children obey, as all the redeemed have ever done. The apostle says, "And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him..." 1Jn 3:24.
We are in the but now where the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, even the righteousness of God which is by faith OF Jesus Christ (Romans 3:21-22 KJV)
Satan's argument is precisely this, that it is impossible to obey God's commandments and that is why man fell.
"Satan's argument" today is to blind the minds of them which believe not the glorious gospel of Christ (2 Corinthians 4:3-4 KJV), by getting people to think their salvation is based upon their work (Romans 4:4-5 KJV) and not God's (Romans 4:25 KJV, Romans 6:23 KJV, Galatians 2:16 KJV, Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV).
 
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