Yes. You just destroyed Truster and his fake system of salvation
Having received salvation, what is next?
- Thread starter oatmeal
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Epoisses
New member
The will of man and genuine biblical faith are two different things. I can't choose to believe in Christ. What I can do is realize that I am a helpless and hopeless sinner and that all my choices based on will power are like ropes of sand. And in this state of repentance over my sin, God will give me the faith I could never produce on my own.
Epoisses
New member
Truster is closer to truth than you and he is like light years away. So you're in a black hole somewhere.
You're a calvinist
Epoisses
New member
I was raised Lutheran but I doubt they would claim me anymore especially with my prophetic views. The Lutheran gospel is the happy place between the two ditches of Arminianism and Calvinism.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Patrick,
I appreciate the sentiment for that was a tempting goal, but
I am concerned that people choose to rise up the greatness of God's word which clearly requires our willful activity to receive.
When people who have been misled realize that God is not ignoring them and their prayers, but is waiting for them to believe to act upon the logos of God, then God's might will be clearly evident in their lives.
In reply to the OP's original question: after initial salvation experience, what should come next is the baptism in the Holy Ghost, to begin the work of sanctification/justification in the believer. It is the power promised from on high, the gift giver, the Teacher, the One who lights our path. First comes called/salvation, then justified/sanctification, then glorified. Peace
oatmeal
Well-known member
In one sense I agree with you, for neither you nor I nor any other "normal" person can believe to do the works that the man Jesus Christ alone could do.
If Noah could have done it, he would have.
If Samson could have, he would have.
If Abraham could have, he would have and right on down the line, but they could believe God's word to them which was that the seed of the woman would redeem mankind. Genesis 3:15 etc.
The gift of salvation was not available to them. But as Romans 4 tells us of Abraham, Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness.
They could only look forward to the accomplishment's of Jesus Christ, we can not only look back on them, but believe to receive the the gift of salvation
Righteousness is not just counted to us, it is given to us, it it ours. We have the righteousness of God. II Cor 5:21
Why? How? Because we believed God's word, we choose to believe to confess with our mouth the lord Jesus and believe in our heart that God raised him from the dead.
I did choose to believe and continue to choose to believe God's words, His written logos.
The reason I am typing this message is because I chose to share God's word as God requires of me and be a blessing to God's people. I choose to take the example of Jesus Christ's ministry and believe that I have the ministry of reconciliation like Jesus Christ did and share the word of reconciliation with people here on this website. II Corinthians 5:18-20
God's gift of salvation is received by our believing, not by our works of righteousness, for if we did the works to earn salvation, then we would not have needed either God or Jesus Christ to provide that gift for us.
We must distinguish between the believing works of Jesus Christ whose works earned the gift of salvation to and for those who would choose to believe God to receive that gift by doing Romans 10:9-10
One way I like to teach that is, "it is our job to do the possible, it is God's job to do the impossible"
As we believer to do what God instructs us to do, we allow God to do his part.
He does not force His goodness into our minds and hearts and lives though His goodness is all around us.
We must, as the father of the sick child of Mark 9 did, learn to believe God to receive from God
oatmeal
Well-known member
Thanks for posting.
From what I have learned the gift of salvation is referred to in several ways in scripture. Each illustrating another facet of that costly gift to us.
It is referred to as being born again of seed incorruptible, the gift of salvation, the gift of eternal life, Romans 6:23 the gift from the Holy Spirit which is holy spirit, the baptism in holy spirit, the measure of faith given to us by God and others.
Within that gift package is included our rights as sons of God of which the major ones are our redemption, our justification, our righteousness, our sanctification and our ministry of reconciliation.
Just like a newborn baby, it has all the basics included, the baby must be grow up and mature to properly use all the benefits of being a live human being.
Even so when we were born again have all we need inside but we must learn and grow up and mature of and in God's word to utilize all the benefits of having God as our Father as sons of God. I John 3:1-3
That is, we must believe God's word to come to the knowledge of the truth.
God's Truth
New member
Are you kidding?
Abel had to do right.
Noah had to obey, he had to do right.
Abraham had to obey and do right.
What do you mean it is not by what we do?
When Paul says not of works of righteousness, he is NOT talking about how we do not have to obey!
Paul is speaking of how we do not have to do the ceremonial/purification works.
How do you ever get that it has nothing to do with what we do?
Don't misunderstand Paul.
Genesis 6:8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.
Genesis 7:1 The LORD then said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation.
Abraham obeyed God and it is what saved him. Circumcision began with Abraham and it is the seal of the purification works that later came with Moses; BUT, Abraham OBEYED BEFOREHAND and that is WHY he was saved:
Genesis 26:4-5 I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because Abraham obeyed me and kept my requirements, my commands, my decrees and my laws."
Job had to do right:
Job 1:1, 8 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God...
David had to do right:
1 Kings 9:4 And if you will walk before me, as David your father walked, in integrity of heart, and in uprightness...
1 Kings 15:5 For David had done what was right in the eyes of the LORD and had not failed to keep any of the LORD's commands all the days of his life--except in the case of Uriah the Hittite.
Samson had to go back to doing right.
I can give many scriptures that prove we have to obey God and it is NOT just about believing alone.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Maybe I did not make the distinction between those before the age of grace and those in the age of grace.
Noah was not saved because he sought to do wrong in the sight of God, but because he chose to do what is right in the sight of God to the best of his ability.
He was not only saved from the flood, with his family and the animals, but had a harmonious relationship with God because of his obedience to God.
Do you believe Noah will be raised in the resurrection of the just? I do.
He did not receive the gift of salvation for that was not yet made available because Jesus Christ did not exist yet, let alone did the works that God had laid out for him. Namely our salvation and redemption.
Moses was consistent in his believing obedience to God with a few exceptions. But he was faithful, not perfect, but faithful. He foretold of the prophet that would be like unto himself, but he was not that prophet.
Moses could believe and obey God and like Abraham, that would be counted to him for righteousness, but he did not receive salvation as a gift, but as a reward for faithfulness. Do you believe he shall be raised in the resurrection of the just? I do.
How about Jeremiah? or David? Or Hezekiah? will they be in the resurrection of the just?
They did not receive salvation as a gift but as the result of their faithfulness to God.
We did not have to do works to earn salvation, because of the works of Jesus Christ we receive the gift of salvation not because of faithfulness in works to God, but simply because we met the two requirements given in Romans 10:9-10
We did not earn that gift, we simply received it.
The point of this thread, just to review, is that God expects us to live according to his written logos even though we have received the gift of salvation. Just like any earthly father would, God expects us to do the works that cause us to mature in Christ, not remain spoonfed and in diapers all our lives.
It takes works on our part to learn to live a Christ like life.
Surely you have noticed that!
Haven't you?
God's Truth
New member
All you did was just repeat what I already disproved.
They received the gift of salvation because they obeyed God.
God gives His gift to those who obey Him.
You just can't separate the ceremonial works from regular obeying, can you.
God chooses to save those who believe and obey Him.
That is to whom God gives His gift to.
God's Truth
New member
Abel, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Job...they were saved but were not yet made perfect until Jesus came and shed his blood on the cross, so that the righteous can be made perfect.
Nowhere anywhere is there room in the Truth to say it isn't about what they did.
That is a teaching from false doctrines, from those who misunderstand Paul and the purification/ceremonial works.
Nowhere anywhere are we told anyone is saved by believing alone.
Nowhere anywhere is there room in the Truth to say it isn't about what they did.
That is a teaching from false doctrines, from those who misunderstand Paul and the purification/ceremonial works.
Nowhere anywhere are we told anyone is saved by believing alone.
God's Truth
New member
Who are the cloud of witnesses! Come to your senses people.
The cloud of witnesses were those who were righteous and obeyed God before Jesus came to earth.
The cloud of witnesses were those who were righteous and obeyed God before Jesus came to earth.
oatmeal
Well-known member
God's Truth
New member
You didn't really say that.
You said it had nothing to do with what they did.
It has everything to do with what we do.
oatmeal
Well-known member
There is a difference between the gift of salvation that Jesus Christ earned for us and the faithful believing and obedience that the pre age of grace believers had to do to.
Salvation is now a gift, it was not in pre age of grace times.
The gift of salvation was not earned by us, if it was it would be wages for works, not a gift.
Even though it is now a gift, not of works, we still have to receive that gift. If a friend hands you a costly gift, you still have to do the work of holding out your hands to receive it, though you did not earn that gift.
We do the easy part, God in Christ did the heavy lifting.
God's Truth
New member
In the past, the people HAD TO OBEY GOD, even the ceremonial works.
That is your downfall.
You keep including obedience to all kinds of works.
It is a gift to those who OBEY, as always it is a gift to those who obey.
Not of ceremonial works.
We must still obey but we no longer have to do ceremonial works.
God gives the gift to those who OBEY. They can no longer get it because they got circumcised and did other things, the ceremonial works of the law.
In fact, if you do ceremonial works you are now DISOBEYING.
You have to do MORE than hold out your hand, you have to first BE A FRIEND.
Jesus says we are friends if we obey.
John 15:14
You are my friends if you do what I command.
Obeying is easy, light, and not burdensome, but we still have to OBEY.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Obedience is required to receive anything from God.
or as the saying goes,"when all else fails, read the instructions"
In order to receive the gift of salvation we have to obey Romans 10:9-10
Believing is synonymous with obedience, there may be nuances of difference but the result is the same.
When we believe we receive of God, when we obey we receive of God.
Obedience has the nuance of serving God, but it takes believing to serve God.
I am still wondering why you introduced the concept of ceremonial works since I certainly did not.
Confessing with the mouth the lord Jesus and believing in the heart that God raised him from the dead is certainly not ceremonial.
God's Truth
New member
You brought up the ceremonial works when you brought up Paul saying not of by works!
Until you get that, you teach confusion.
No one is rewarded for just believing.
We have to believe and obey.
Not of by works is the ceremonial works of the law.
That is the works that no longer save.