ECT God's children are in Babylon.

ThreeAngels

New member
Just before the last 7 plagues are poured out upon Babylon, the message is sent from heaven, "... Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities," Revelation 18:4,5. Babylon is the church fallen because of her sins and rejection of light from God.
 

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
Just before the last 7 plagues are poured out upon Babylon, the message is sent from heaven, "... Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities," Revelation 18:4,5. Babylon is the church fallen because of her sins and rejection of light from God.

Are you saying that people should leave the church?
 

ThreeAngels

New member
Are you saying that people should leave the church?
You should leave any church which does not base its faith and practice on a plain, "Thus saith the Lord." God has but one church in the earth. "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism," Ephesians 4:4,5. The Scripture testifies of this church as they that, "...keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ," Revelation 12:17. The church which is recognized as such in heaven keeps all the 10 commandments of God and maintains the faith of Jesus. The rest of the churches constitute Babylon.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Just before the last 7 plagues are poured out upon Babylon, the message is sent from heaven, "... Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities," Revelation 18:4,5. Babylon is the church fallen because of her sins and rejection of light from God.




The symbols of the Rev are about the 1st century ordeal of Israel. John was calling Judaism Babylon. Notice that he used the same language as Mt 23 about the deaths of so many saints and prophets. And Babylon uses (rides upon) Rome (the beast). If you know Acts, you find Jewish leaders with Roman civil authority constantly bothering Christians for issues that Rome does not really care about, like Acts 19.


So does anything here matter to us? Yes. Ch 20. At the end of the long reign of Christ (now), Satan will organize a persecution of all believers everywhere until the last moment when he will be defeated and the NHNE will replace this world.
 

northwye

New member
Again, what has been said on this thread so far is an example of the use of the dialectic. The Thesis, which here is Revelation 18: 23 and Revelation 18: 4, has been stated. Revelation 18: 23 shows that Babylon is metaphoric for the church in apostasy, and Revelation 18: 4 calls those who belong to God out of Babylon, the apostate church.

The Christian Zionist Anti-thesis has not been stated here yet in an explicit way, though the preterist Anti-thesis has been stated, which is that the prophecies of Revelation were limited to a fulfillment in the First Century, and therefore Babylon in Revelation 17 and 18 is a metaphor limited to Judaism in the First Century.

Like Christian Zionism, which is a set of doctrines that can be seen as the Anti-thesis to the Thesis of the Gospel of Christ, preterism also imposes its own set of doctrines upon scripture, changing the doctrines partly through limiting prophecy to a First century fulfillment.

And in what is seen of preterism here the assumption seems to be that the Book of Revelation alone represents prophecy of an apostasy, a calling out of Babylon, though the remnant has not come up here yet.

II Thessalonians 2: 3-7, Luke 13: 20-21, I Timothy 4: 1-2, II Timothy 3: 1-8, II Timothy 3: 13, II Timothy 4: 3-4 and I Timothy 6:20-21 is a list of New Testament texts about an apostasy. Nothing from Revelation is listed here, though there prophecies in Revelation on an apostasy, in metaphoric language. It may be that the preterists say that all New Testament prophecy was fulfilled in the First Century, not just those in Revelation. But only Revelation was mentioned here so far.

But try to learn what the dialectic is, because it does not lead you to the Truth, but it is a procedure in an argument or quarrel. In fact, the Marxist version of the Hegelian dialectic was developed into an attitude and belief changing procedure in the 20th century.
 

daqq

Well-known member
Again, what has been said on this thread so far is an example of the use of the dialectic. The Thesis, which here is Revelation 18: 23 and Revelation 18: 4, has been stated. Revelation 18: 23 shows that Babylon is metaphoric for the church in apostasy, and Revelation 18: 4 calls those who belong to God out of Babylon, the apostate church.

The Christian Zionist Anti-thesis has not been stated here yet in an explicit way, though the preterist Anti-thesis has been stated, which is that the prophecies of Revelation were limited to a fulfillment in the First Century, and therefore Babylon in Revelation 17 and 18 is a metaphor limited to Judaism in the First Century.

Like Christian Zionism, which is a set of doctrines that can be seen as the Anti-thesis to the Thesis of the Gospel of Christ, preterism also imposes its own set of doctrines upon scripture, changing the doctrines partly through limiting prophecy to a First century fulfillment.

And in what is seen of preterism here the assumption seems to be that the Book of Revelation alone represents prophecy of an apostasy, a calling out of Babylon, though the remnant has not come up here yet.

II Thessalonians 2: 3-7, Luke 13: 20-21, I Timothy 4: 1-2, II Timothy 3: 1-8, II Timothy 3: 13, II Timothy 4: 3-4 and I Timothy 6:20-21 is a list of New Testament texts about an apostasy. Nothing from Revelation is listed here, though there prophecies in Revelation on an apostasy, in metaphoric language. It may be that the preterists say that all New Testament prophecy was fulfilled in the First Century, not just those in Revelation. But only Revelation was mentioned here so far.

But try to learn what the dialectic is, because it does not lead you to the Truth, but it is a procedure in an argument or quarrel. In fact, the Marxist version of the Hegelian dialectic was developed into an attitude and belief changing procedure in the 20th century.

The truth is what I tried to explain in one of your other threads here recently: it is a body temple analogy. Babylon is the flesh, (Sodom and Egypt in the allegory), but the "flesh" allegories and analogies include the eyes and mind of the flesh seeing all things according to the natural and carnal mind of man. That is why Paul juxtaposes "Sarah -vs- Hagar", "Isaac -vs- Ishmael", "Horeb -vs- Sinai", (though he does not mention Ishmael or Horeb in Gal 4), "Jerusalem above -vs- Jerusalem below", "the Spirit" -vs- "the flesh", and the cities as we see in that passage are an allegory of the two covenants. The two covenants are really one and the same but the new covenant is the old when viewed through the lenses of the Testimony of Messiah in the Gospel accounts because the words of Messiah are Spirit and they are Life. The entire Apokalypse-Revelation of Messiah Yeshua is therefore a journey, a walk, the sayings which if one understands, keeps, and upholds, and walks through, will lead to the destruction of the flesh paradigm and Life in Messiah in the End. The Revelation is the book of keys which unlocks all of Torah and Tanakh and which the Testimony of Messiah explains and expounds, (believe it or not).

Example:

And the talmidim of Yohanan went to him, (in the Patmo-Prison of Herod), and showed him all these things: and Yohanan, calling unto him a certain duo of his talmidim, sent them to the Master, saying, Are you "Ho Erchomenos" or should we watch for another? And when the andres-men were come to him, they said, Yohanan the Immerser has sent us unto you, saying, Are you "Ho Erchomenos" or should we watch for another? And in that same hour many were cured of maladies, and of plagues, and of evil spirits: and unto many that were blind, sight was bestowed. And he, (the Nagiyd-Commander of the Covenant), answered, commanding them; Go forth and απαγγελλω-announce to Yohanan what things you have seen and heard:

1) The blind see:
2) The lame walk:
3) The lepers are cleansed:
4) The deaf hear:
5) The dead are awakened:
6) The good news message is preached to the poor:
7) And blessed is the one whosoever shall not be offended in me!

And the
Angels of Yohanan, (cf. Lk 7:24), went and announced to him all these things . . .
(And thunders uttered their voices)
 
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