GALATIANS 2 THE GOSPEL TO THE GENTILES

DougE

Well-known member
GALATIANS 2
2:1 Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also.

2:2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.

Paul communicated his gospel. If there is only one gospel, and they were all preaching it, why would Paul have to communicate to them what they were already preaching?

2:6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person:) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me:

Paul was not taught the gospel he preached by men, but rather, by revelations from Jesus Christ.

2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

Peter is preaching the gospel of the Circumcision.

He is preaching repentance to Israel for crucifying Jesus. He is preaching faith in Jesus; faith in his name. Peter preached Jesus as Christ, the Son of God, and his resurrection. The resurrection of Jesus Christ would establish the future promise of His Kingdom on earth. This promised Kingdom would put him on the throne of David; enable Israel to reign and rule with him over the nations; and be a light of salvation to the Gentiles, thru the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

The gospel of the Circumcision that Peter is preaching is the fulfillment of the covenant God made with Israel.

Paul was preaching the gospel of the uncircumcision. He was sent to the Jew first, then the Gentiles. He is the Apostle to the Gentiles in the dispensation of Grace.

Paul received his ministry from revelations from Jesus Christ.Paul preached salvation in Christ as a gift given freely to all that believe.

Paul preached faith in Christ alone, and the complete salvation provided in His death on the cross and resurrection. Paul preached faith in Christ alone, faith in what Christ did on the cross in dying for our sins, as our substitute; faith in his blood and resurrection for our complete forgiveness.

In the Dispensation of Grace, which was not revealed til Paul, we will find no difference between Jew and Gentile, but rather, justification to eternal life to all who believe, Jew or Gentile, and the unity of being in one body.

Paul preached a gospel of Grace apart from Israel. A gospel that did not require the law or works.

Paul preached that the wall of seperation between Jew and Gentile was abolished by the cross.

2:8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)

2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

Just as an aside, the Twelve were told by Jesus to preach unto the world, but here, they are deferring to Paul.
 

turbosixx

New member
GALATIANS 2
2:1 Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also.

2:2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.

Paul communicated his gospel. If there is only one gospel, and they were all preaching it, why would Paul have to communicate to them what they were already preaching?
I suggest you take another look at those verses. Paul wasn't making sure they were preaching the true gospel, he was making sure he was by comparing it to theirs.
"lest by any means I might run, or had run, in vain."

Paul preached a gospel of Grace apart from Israel. A gospel that did not require the law or works.
Peter didn't preach a gospel that required the law. Under what covenant did these Israelites have their sins forgiven and receive the Holy Spirit?
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
 

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
I suggest you take another look at those verses. Paul wasn't making sure they were preaching the true gospel, he was making sure he was by comparing it to theirs.
"lest by any means I might run, or had run, in vain."

That is so absurd.
You're saying that after 18 years and multiple direct revelations from Christ in heaven, Paul is unsure of his commission? That's beyond absurd.

No, 'running in vain' meant that Paul could potentially be intercepted and undermined by false brethren before he could get to Peter, James and John and explain to them his gospel which he had been preaching to the gentiles. He was not looking for their approval but was communicating things revealed to him by Christ that they didn't know.

Peter didn't preach a gospel that required the law. Under what covenant did these Israelites have their sins forgiven and receive the Holy Spirit?
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Where, anywhere before Paul, did GOD say to the believing Israelites that they were no longer under the law of Moses?
 

turbosixx

New member
No, 'running in vain' meant that Paul could potentially be intercepted and undermined by false brethren before he could get to Peter, James and John and explain to them his gospel which he had been preaching to the gentiles.
That's very imaginative. Paul also says "had run" past tense. He submitted the gospel he "had" been preaching.
lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain

The apostles were guided by the Holy Spirit, not Paul, into ALL the truth which included things to come.
John 16:13When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

Where, anywhere before Paul, did GOD say to the believing Israelites that they were no longer under the law of Moses?
Is that a requirement in order for an Israelite to become a believer?

Under what law did the Israelites, on Pentecost, have their sins forgiven and receive the Holy Spirit?
 
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beloved57

Well-known member
douge

2:2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.

Paul communicated his gospel. If there is only one gospel, and they were all preaching it, why would Paul have to communicate to them what they were already preaching?

Thats simple, so they would know that Paul now preached the same Gospel they preached, and which he use to persecute them for. When they saw that he did, they gave him the right hand of fellowship Gal 2:9

9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
 

Right Divider

Body part
I suggest you take another look at those verses. Paul wasn't making sure they were preaching the true gospel, he was making sure he was by comparing it to theirs.
"lest by any means I might run, or had run, in vain."
Utter nonsense.

So... Paul was SO concerned about preaching the "same gospel" that he WAITED 17 YEARS to go check?

:rotfl:

P.S. Paul received his gospel DIRECTLY from the RISEN and ASCENDED LORD Jesus Christ and YET you think that he had doubts about it being correct.... what a MESS your myth makes of you.
 

Danoh

New member
Galatians 2:2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.

BUT PRIVATELY TO THEM WHICH WERE OF REPUTATION.

Why?

"lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain."

In other words, so as not to have wasted his trip to Jerusalem only to have ended up in an argument once more with those who had no say in the matter, from a leadership standpoint, to begin with.

The disagreements that arose three times in Acts 15, makes it clear that this is what Paul had meant by his "lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain."

Rom. 5:6-8.
 

clefty

New member
That's very imaginative. Paul also says "had run" past tense. He submitted the gospel he "had" been preaching.
lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain

The apostles were guided by the Holy Spirit, not Paul, into ALL the truth which included things to come.
John 16:13When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.


Is that a requirement in order for an Israelite to become a believer?

Under what law did the Israelites, on Pentecost, have their sins forgiven and receive the Holy Spirit?


Pentecost...hmmm...weren’t the apostles assembled for the Pentecost even after the resurrection and ascension?
 

TrevorL

Well-known member
Greetings DougE,
GALATIANS 2
Peter is preaching the gospel of the Circumcision.
He is preaching repentance to Israel for crucifying Jesus. He is preaching faith in Jesus; faith in his name. Peter preached Jesus as Christ, the Son of God, and his resurrection. The resurrection of Jesus Christ would establish the future promise of His Kingdom on earth. This promised Kingdom would put him on the throne of David; enable Israel to reign and rule with him over the nations; and be a light of salvation to the Gentiles, thru the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
The gospel of the Circumcision that Peter is preaching is the fulfillment of the covenant God made with Israel.
Paul was preaching the gospel of the uncircumcision. He was sent to the Jew first, then the Gentiles. He is the Apostle to the Gentiles in the dispensation of Grace.
Just as an aside, the Twelve were told by Jesus to preach unto the world, but here, they are deferring to Paul.
Paul and Peter were not preaching two different Gospels, but the One Gospel. Rather Paul is speaking of the subdivision of their responsibilities, where Peter and John were preaching mainly to the Jews, and Paul to the Gentiles. That there is only one Gospel, Paul proclaimed a curse on anyone preaching any other Gospel than the one that he preached to both the Jews and Gentiles at Galatia.
Galatians 1:6-9 (KJV): 6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

Right Divider

Body part
Greetings DougE, Paul and Peter were not preaching two different Gospels, but the One Gospel. Rather Paul is speaking of the subdivision of their responsibilities, where Peter and John were preaching mainly to the Jews, and Paul to the Gentiles. That there is only one Gospel, Paul proclaimed a curse on anyone preaching any other Gospel than the one that he preached to both the Jews and Gentiles at Galatia.
Galatians 1:6-9 (KJV): 6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Kind regards
Trevor
Paul was preaching a different gospel UNTO THEM.

Paul did not want the others preaching THEIR gospel UNTO THEM.
 

Danoh

New member
Greetings DougE, Paul and Peter were not preaching two different Gospels, but the One Gospel. Rather Paul is speaking of the subdivision of their responsibilities, where Peter and John were preaching mainly to the Jews, and Paul to the Gentiles. That there is only one Gospel, Paul proclaimed a curse on anyone preaching any other Gospel than the one that he preached to both the Jews and Gentiles at Galatia.
Galatians 1:6-9 (KJV): 6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Kind regards
Trevor

Nope.

That the issue in Acts 15 (of the need for the Gentiles to have to submit to circumcision and the keeping of the law of Moses) came up at all, shows that keeping the Law of Moses had rightly been continued by the Twelve and their converts.

Why?

Because the Law is their identity in the sight of the Nations...

Deuteronomy 4:5 Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the LORD my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it. 4:6 Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.

Thus, the Lord's reminder to the Twelve, in...

Matthew 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

Sorry, but that was not a part of that gospel that Paul had preached among the Gentiles.

James, after his and his co-leadership's agreeing with Paul:

Acts 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

The balance of the Jerusalem leadership, after their agreeing with Paul:

15:22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren: 15:23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia: 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: 15:25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 15:26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

James and Paul, once more:

Acts 21:17 And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly. 21:18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present. 21:19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry. 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: 21:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

And so on...

Galatians 2:1 Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also. 2:2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain. 2:3 But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised: 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: 2:5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

Paul's point in Galatians 1 being that if you mix both valid gospels into one, you end up with another, which is not another...at all.

Rom. 5:6-8.
 

turbosixx

New member
Pentecost...hmmm...weren’t the apostles assembled for the Pentecost even after the resurrection and ascension?

Luke 24:47and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

Rom. 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
When did the Jews hear it first?
 

turbosixx

New member
Utter nonsense.

So... Paul was SO concerned about preaching the "same gospel" that he WAITED 17 YEARS to go check?

:rotfl:

P.S. Paul received his gospel DIRECTLY from the RISEN and ASCENDED LORD Jesus Christ and YET you think that he had doubts about it being correct.... what a MESS your myth makes of you.

It's my understanding Paul and the 12 got their inspiration from God. Both had the truth, the same truth from the same source. I believe Paul submitted his gospel to them to be sure he had their support in not circumcising the converts. They gave him that support. I assume the 12 were not speaking against circumcision for the exact same reason Paul performed it on Timothy. The meeting was divinely set up and it's my opinion the endorsement of the 12 was to help Paul's ministry.
 

Right Divider

Body part
It's my understanding Paul and the 12 got their inspiration from God. Both had the truth, the same truth from the same source.
It is sheer speculation on YOUR part that they received the SAME truth.

I believe Paul submitted his gospel to them to be sure he had their support in not circumcising the converts.
Why HIS gospel? I thought that it was the SAME, ONE and ONLY TRUE GOSPEL.

They gave him that support. I assume the 12 were not speaking against circumcision for the exact same reason Paul performed it on Timothy. The meeting was divinely set up and it's my opinion the endorsement of the 12 was to help Paul's ministry.
:juggle: We all enjoy your fact-free speculations.
 

TrevorL

Well-known member
Greetings Right Divider and Danoh,
Paul was preaching a different gospel UNTO THEM.
Paul did not want the others preaching THEIR gospel UNTO THEM.
Paul seems to use a stronger term, stating a curse upon anyone preaching a different Gospel to Paul. Now let us imagine a situation, a Jew from Galatia decided to visit his relatives in Jerusalem, and he went with them to listen to Peter preaching the Gospel in a side part of the Temple. But if this Gospel is different, then Paul pronounces a curse upon Peter. No, they preached the same Gospel.
Paul's point in Galatians 1 being that if you mix both valid gospels into one, you end up with another, which is not another...at all.
No, they preached the same Gospel.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

Danoh

New member
Greetings Right Divider and Danoh, Paul seems to use a stronger term, stating a curse upon anyone preaching a different Gospel to Paul. Now let us imagine a situation, a Jew from Galatia decided to visit his relatives in Jerusalem, and he went with them to listen to Peter preaching the Gospel in a side part of the Temple. But if this Gospel is different, then Paul pronounces a curse upon Peter. No, they preached the same Gospel.
No, they preached the same Gospel.

Kind regards
Trevor

Never mind how Paul chewed Peter out in front of his pals, and even Barnabas, when they tried to force Paul's Gentile converts to submit to the Circumcision's gospel.

And it is not that Peter's Circumcision Gospel was wrong, rather, that it was not for the Body.

But there really is no point in a continued back and forth with your kind - not given that your kind obviously do not recognize the distinction between the Believing Remnant of Israel and the Body of Christ.

Absent of that, all else is nothing more than a good way to waste away one's day, going back and forth, oblivious of the fact that one is actually merely running in place.

Or as Paul put it - having run in vain.

Nevertheless, Romans 5:6-8, in each - our stead.
 

TrevorL

Well-known member
Greetings again Danoh,
Never mind how Paul chewed Peter out in front of his pals, and even Barnabas, when they tried to force Paul's Gentile converts to submit to the Circumcision's gospel.
And it is not that Peter's Circumcision Gospel was wrong, rather, that it was not for the Body.
But there really is no point in a continued back and forth with your kind - not given that your kind obviously do not recognize the distinction between the Believing Remnant of Israel and the Body of Christ.
Absent of that, all else is nothing more than a good way to waste away one's day, going back and forth, oblivious of the fact that one is actually merely running in place.
Or as Paul put it - having run in vain. Nevertheless, Romans 5:6-8, in each - our stead.
Please yourself, but I suggest that there were not two Gospels in the following account, but the fact that Peter did the wrong thing. The following is not saying that Peter was preaching a different Gospel.
Galatians 2:11–14 (KJV): 11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. 12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. 13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. 14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
I suggest that it takes a careful examination and reading between the lines to understand the background to the Letter to the Galatians and Acts 15.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

Idolater

Well-known member
Greetings again Danoh,Please yourself, but I suggest that there were not two Gospels in the following account, but the fact that Peter did the wrong thing. The following is not saying that Peter was preaching a different Gospel.
Galatians 2:11–14 (KJV): 11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. 12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. 13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. 14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
I suggest that it takes a careful examination and reading between the lines to understand the background to the Letter to the Galatians and Acts 15.

Kind regards
Trevor
I can't say whether Clavinism or Dispensationalism is the more correct interpretation of the Bible. Neither of them consider the 73-book Bible, only the 66-book Bible. And neither of them have any answer for why they don't have bishops anymore, even though that office's birth and infancy are witnessed to by the New Testament, but nonetheless none of them have bishops. I guess they each think that they're each individual bishops themselves, since they all read 1st & 2nd Timothy and Titus as if they're addressed to them, instead of to bishops.

All's to say is that you're dealing with a Dispensationalist, and good luck.
 

Right Divider

Body part
Greetings Right Divider and Danoh, Paul seems to use a stronger term, stating a curse upon anyone preaching a different Gospel to Paul.
You're very confused. It wasn't about someone preaching a gospel to Paul.

http://theologyonline.com/entry.php?3469-Another-gospel-in-Galatians-1

Now let us imagine a situation, a Jew from Galatia decided to visit his relatives in Jerusalem, and he went with them to listen to Peter preaching the Gospel in a side part of the Temple. But if this Gospel is different, then Paul pronounces a curse upon Peter. No, they preached the same Gospel.
No, they preached the same Gospel.
Nope.
 

Danoh

New member
Greetings again Danoh,Please yourself, but I suggest that there were not two Gospels in the following account, but the fact that Peter did the wrong thing. The following is not saying that Peter was preaching a different Gospel.
Galatians 2:11–14 (KJV): 11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. 12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. 13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. 14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
I suggest that it takes a careful examination and reading between the lines to understand the background to the Letter to the Galatians and Acts 15.

Kind regards
Trevor

We're obviously miles apart from one another on what we each hold constitutes a proper approach to a right understanding of these things.

The NT does not explain the OT, rather, it is in light of it.

And then there is Romans thru Philemon, much of the contents of which is not in light of the OT, at all.

For it was "hid in God" and concerns "a new creature."

But round and round we will go on that also.

I suspect you do not mean any ill will, are sincere in your effort.

But good intentions alone, have never been an answer where one is nevertheless off.

And vice-versa, I'm sure.

At the same time, whether a person is right or wrong about one thing or another has never been a big deal for me.

Only the bully and somewhat of a fraud, when you think on it, ever needs to be right over another all the time, or worse, cannot but insult anyone who for what ever reason just does not see their view.

I commend you your consistent use of the phrase "kind regards" instead.

That much, I can agree with you on.

Til our next go around, when ever that might be (for I really do see that we are only running in vain, given our obviously different handling of the Word on one thing or another).

Romans 14: 5, in memory of Romans 5:6-8 - in each our stead.
 
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