Freewill religion is the Man of Sin !

[beloved57]

So the question remains: How do you know you are of the elect? How do know you are being obedient to God when damning everyone who disagrees with your very obviously distorted "hate filled" opinion of His word. You do not display and never have displayed any love of God in anyway in all the years I have tried to make sense out of any of your 'distortions' of His Truth. Why did you ever allow yourself to get into that convoluted nonsensical lapasarian disposition, believing God decreed everything? What did He "decree" for you?

Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain or author of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Heb 5:9

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;


He is the Author of them that are obeying Him, for that is evidence of their Salvation from Him. This is True because by nature they are as the children of disobedience Eph 2:2-3

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

We cannot obey God in that nature we have by nature, our obedience comes out of an New Nature which Christ is the Author of !

Again, He is the Author of Salvation specifically to those who are obeying Him, which means their obeying Him has been caused by Him being the Author of their Salvation.

We must be saved from or out of disobedience / unbelief, which we were made unto because of sin Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Unbelief here also means disobedience , and by nature we are in it permanently, nothing but New Birth can free us !

By nature we are imprisoned therein unto disobedience, so we must be saved out of it in order to become obedient, or to obey or as the word obey means in Heb 5:9 hupakouó:

I listen, hearken to, obey, answer, ("obey" is acting under the authority of the one speaking, i.e. really listening to the one giving the charge (order).

to hearken to a command, i. e. to obey, be obedient unto, submit

This by nature as carnal and in the flesh we cannot do Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Notice that Paul says " neither indeed can be"

That simply denotes inability to be subject to God by nature ! Being subject means obedience, or obeying Him !

Now understand what Heb 5:9 must be saying, That one does not first obey Jesus to get Eternal Salvation, But He saves them, Authors their Salvation so that they may now beging to obey Him.

The fact is, He cannot be the Author or causer of our Salvation our obedience, if in fact we are not saved by Him until after we become obedient on our own, that makes our own obedience the cause or author of our salvation.

But yet how could we obey Him, if we were not already saved out of disobedience ?

Heb 5:8-9

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Is teaching the same thing as Rom 5:19b

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

By His Obedience, those He represented become experimetnally obedient, just as those adam represented became experimentally disobedient ! Paul says of the Elect Titus 3:3

For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

But Christ's death changes that, and Authored our Obedience Heb 5:9

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

May Christ be Glorified for any and all Obedience to the Gospel !

 

[Cross Reference]

Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain or author of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Heb 5:9

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;


He is the Author of them that are obeying Him, for that is evidence of their Salvation from Him. This is True because by nature they are as the children of disobedience Eph 2:2-3

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

We cannot obey God in that nature we have by nature, our obedience comes out of an New Nature which Christ is the Author of !

Again, He is the Author of Salvation specifically to those who are obeying Him, which means their obeying Him has been caused by Him being the Author of their Salvation.

We must be saved from or out of disobedience / unbelief, which we were made unto because of sin Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Unbelief here also means disobedience , and by nature we are in it permanently, nothing but New Birth can free us !

By nature we are imprisoned therein unto disobedience, so we must be saved out of it in order to become obedient, or to obey or as the word obey means in Heb 5:9 hupakouó:

I listen, hearken to, obey, answer, ("obey" is acting under the authority of the one speaking, i.e. really listening to the one giving the charge (order).

to hearken to a command, i. e. to obey, be obedient unto, submit

This by nature as carnal and in the flesh we cannot do Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Notice that Paul says " neither indeed can be"

That simply denotes inability to be subject to God by nature ! Being subject means obedience, or obeying Him !

Now understand what Heb 5:9 must be saying, That one does not first obey Jesus to get Eternal Salvation, But He saves them, Authors their Salvation so that they may now beging to obey Him.

The fact is, He cannot be the Author or causer of our Salvation our obedience, if in fact we are not saved by Him until after we become obedient on our own, that makes our own obedience the cause or author of our salvation.

But yet how could we obey Him, if we were not already saved out of disobedience ?

Heb 5:8-9

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Is teaching the same thing as Rom 5:19b

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

By His Obedience, those He represented become experimetnally obedient, just as those adam represented became experimentally disobedient ! Paul says of the Elect Titus 3:3

For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

But Christ's death changes that, and Authored our Obedience Heb 5:9

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

May Christ be Glorified for any and all Obedience to the Gospel !

No! Jesus Authored our faith. Big difference because we must still obey. He learned obedience and so must we.

 

[beloved57]

No! Jesus Authored our faith. Big difference because we must still obey. He learned obedience and so must we.

Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain or author of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Heb 5:9

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;


He is the Author of them that are obeying Him, for that is evidence of their Salvation from Him. This is True because by nature they are as the children of disobedience Eph 2:2-3

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

We cannot obey God in that nature we have by nature, our obedience comes out of an New Nature which Christ is the Author of !

Again, He is the Author of Salvation specifically to those who are obeying Him, which means their obeying Him has been caused by Him being the Author of their Salvation.

We must be saved from or out of disobedience / unbelief, which we were made unto because of sin Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Unbelief here also means disobedience , and by nature we are in it permanently, nothing but New Birth can free us !

By nature we are imprisoned therein unto disobedience, so we must be saved out of it in order to become obedient, or to obey or as the word obey means in Heb 5:9 hupakouó:

I listen, hearken to, obey, answer, ("obey" is acting under the authority of the one speaking, i.e. really listening to the one giving the charge (order).

to hearken to a command, i. e. to obey, be obedient unto, submit

This by nature as carnal and in the flesh we cannot do Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Notice that Paul says " neither indeed can be"

That simply denotes inability to be subject to God by nature ! Being subject means obedience, or obeying Him !

Now understand what Heb 5:9 must be saying, That one does not first obey Jesus to get Eternal Salvation, But He saves them, Authors their Salvation so that they may now beging to obey Him.

The fact is, He cannot be the Author or causer of our Salvation our obedience, if in fact we are not saved by Him until after we become obedient on our own, that makes our own obedience the cause or author of our salvation.

But yet how could we obey Him, if we were not already saved out of disobedience ?

Heb 5:8-9

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Is teaching the same thing as Rom 5:19b

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

By His Obedience, those He represented become experimetnally obedient, just as those adam represented became experimentally disobedient ! Paul says of the Elect Titus 3:3

For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

But Christ's death changes that, and Authored our Obedience Heb 5:9

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

May Christ be Glorified for any and all Obedience to the Gospel !

 

[blackbirdking]

Where is God when a person falls down? Isn't He there?

What do you mean, "falls down"?

Where did you learn about Calvinism?

John 3:14
Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,

John 12:32
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."

Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

If one exists, he can seek truth; God is truth.

 

[Cross Reference]

Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

The very key verse that brings everything into focus. We must remember that God gave every man ever born faith to believe Him and the capability to obey His commands. In other words, God decreed righteousness that by man's obedience He could determine who to choose and who to reject to be His own. Of course, not all He chooses does He choose at the same point of time in their respective physical lives. Some need more persuasion than others, [like me] but, when finally coming around to His way of thinking, will never allow themselves to ever again be moved away from Him.

If one exists, he can seek truth; God is truth.

Exactly! Unless turned over to reprobation. cf Rom 1.

 

[blackbirdking]

Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain or author of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Heb 5:9

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;


He is the Author of them that are obeying Him, for that is evidence of their Salvation from Him. This is True because by nature they are as the children of disobedience Eph 2:2-3

May Christ be Glorified for any and all Obedience to the Gospel !

Lie.

It doesn't say He is the author of "them". It says "the author of salvation", both times.

Salvation is the expression of God's love for all of Adam's race.
Romans 5:18 "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."


Hebrews 5:11Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. 12For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat

The first principle: GOD IS GOOD

 

[blackbirdking]

The very key verse that brings everything into focus. We must remember that God gave every man ever born faith to believe Him and the capability to obey His commands. In other words, God decreed righteousness that by man's obedience He could determine who to choose and who to reject to be His own. Of course, not all He chooses does He choose at the same point of time in their respective physical lives. Some need more persuasion than others, [like me] but, when finally coming around to His way of thinking, will never allow themselves to ever again be moved away from Him.



Exactly! Unless turned over to reprobation. cf Rom 1.

Agreed.

 

[beloved57]

Lie.

It doesn't say He is the author of "them". It says "the author of salvation", both times.

Salvation is the expression of God's love for all of Adam's race.
Romans 5:18 "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."


Hebrews 5:11Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. 12For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat

The first principle: GOD IS GOOD

Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain or author of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Heb 5:9

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;


He is the Author of them that are obeying Him, for that is evidence of their Salvation from Him. This is True because by nature they are as the children of disobedience Eph 2:2-3

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

We cannot obey God in that nature we have by nature, our obedience comes out of an New Nature which Christ is the Author of !

Again, He is the Author of Salvation specifically to those who are obeying Him, which means their obeying Him has been caused by Him being the Author of their Salvation.

We must be saved from or out of disobedience / unbelief, which we were made unto because of sin Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Unbelief here also means disobedience , and by nature we are in it permanently, nothing but New Birth can free us !

By nature we are imprisoned therein unto disobedience, so we must be saved out of it in order to become obedient, or to obey or as the word obey means in Heb 5:9 hupakouó:

I listen, hearken to, obey, answer, ("obey" is acting under the authority of the one speaking, i.e. really listening to the one giving the charge (order).

to hearken to a command, i. e. to obey, be obedient unto, submit

This by nature as carnal and in the flesh we cannot do Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Notice that Paul says " neither indeed can be"

That simply denotes inability to be subject to God by nature ! Being subject means obedience, or obeying Him !

Now understand what Heb 5:9 must be saying, That one does not first obey Jesus to get Eternal Salvation, But He saves them, Authors their Salvation so that they may now beging to obey Him.

The fact is, He cannot be the Author or causer of our Salvation our obedience, if in fact we are not saved by Him until after we become obedient on our own, that makes our own obedience the cause or author of our salvation.

But yet how could we obey Him, if we were not already saved out of disobedience ?

Heb 5:8-9

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Is teaching the same thing as Rom 5:19b

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

By His Obedience, those He represented become experimetnally obedient, just as those adam represented became experimentally disobedient ! Paul says of the Elect Titus 3:3

For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

But Christ's death changes that, and Authored our Obedience Heb 5:9

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

May Christ be Glorified for any and all Obedience to the Gospel !



Posted from the TOL App!

 

[TulipBee]

Can't know that; don't know if God is deceiving us. Why bother to ask, since God caused deception?

Judgment for what? Everybody does God's will, according to Calvinism.

I never heard calvinism state that God deceives. I belive the antiCalvinist interpret that wrong.

Try again.

 

[Cross Reference]

I never heard of man's total depravity until some Calvinist declared it. Can't even find the term in the Bible __even in context.

 

[blackbirdking]

I never heard calvinism state that God deceives. I belive the antiCalvinist interpret that wrong.

Try again.

Did God cause sin?

 

[blackbirdking]

I never heard of man's total depravity until some Calvinist declared it. Can't even find the term in the Bible __even in context.

Calvin was a lawyer; he didn't get it, so added to scripture his own ideas.

 

[TulipBee]

What do you mean, "falls down"?

Where did you learn about Calvinism?

John 3:14
Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,

John 12:32
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."

Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

If one exists, he can seek truth; God is truth.

I learned about a lot of different denominations including cults and other world religions.

When God predistines, He arranges circumstances around the person. He arranges the bike to exist for that person. He arranges the road he rides on. He arranges the car to be parked on the road. Then the person hits the car and falls. God didn't make him fall but he does arrange circumstances. He puts a bank in front of the robber so he can rob the bank. God also puts the same bank in front of the member to deposit his money.
See, God is happy, the robber is happy and the member is happy.

All are happy. Why make God evil like you think calvinism does. Calvinism doesn't make God evil like you say it but lets take what God is or does regaurding to whom is evil and why. You say calvinism is this and that shows you're following some sort of fad from dumb people. I don't really have time for stupidity.

 

[blackbirdking]

Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain or author of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Heb 5:9

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;


He is the Author of them that are obeying Him, for that is evidence of their Salvation from Him. This is True because by nature they are as the children of disobedience Eph 2:2-3

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

We cannot obey God in that nature we have by nature, our obedience comes out of an New Nature which Christ is the Author of !
Again, He is the Author of Salvation specifically to those who are obeying Him, which means their obeying Him has been caused by Him being the Author of their Salvation.

We must be saved from or out of disobedience / unbelief, which we were made unto because of sin Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Unbelief here also means disobedience , and by nature we are in it permanently, nothing but New Birth can free us !

By nature we are imprisoned therein unto disobedience, so we must be saved out of it in order to become obedient, or to obey or as the word obey means in Heb 5:9 hupakouó:

I listen, hearken to, obey, answer, ("obey" is acting under the authority of the one speaking, i.e. really listening to the one giving the charge (order).

to hearken to a command, i. e. to obey, be obedient unto, submit

This by nature as carnal and in the flesh we cannot do Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Notice that Paul says " neither indeed can be"

That simply denotes inability to be subject to God by nature ! Being subject means obedience, or obeying Him !

Now understand what Heb 5:9 must be saying, That one does not first obey Jesus to get Eternal Salvation, But He saves them, Authors their Salvation so that they may now beging to obey Him.

The fact is, He cannot be the Author or causer of our Salvation our obedience, if in fact we are not saved by Him until after we become obedient on our own, that makes our own obedience the cause or author of our salvation.

But yet how could we obey Him, if we were not already saved out of disobedience ?

Heb 5:8-9

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Is teaching the same thing as Rom 5:19b

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

By His Obedience, those He represented become experimetnally obedient, just as those adam represented became experimentally disobedient ! Paul says of the Elect Titus 3:3

For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

But Christ's death changes that, and Authored our Obedience Heb 5:9

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

May Christ be Glorified for any and all Obedience to the Gospel !



Posted from the TOL App!

You're idea of total depravity is not Biblical; Jesus draws all men.


You're assuming something that is not there. The "carnal mind" is not a noun; it is a verb-- "the minding of the flesh" is what cannot please God. That is correct; if you're "minding the flesh", you're loving the flesh, and not loving God.

You're looking for something in scripture that isn't there.

He loved us before we love Him. Jesus draws all men.

Your view of the sovereignty of God is your hang-up; so you look for a way in scripture to prove sovereignty the way you believe it.

There are some things that God can't do; He cannot violate His character, and He cannot force love; not ever; even if scripture says He can. Love is not love when forced.

Example: With God all things are possible, but that doesn't mean He can lie. Why? His character is the basis for interpretation.

 

[blackbirdking]

I learned about a lot of different denominations including cults and other world religions.



All are happy. Why make God evil like you think calvinism does. Calvinism doesn't make God evil like you say it but lets take what God is or does regaurding to whom is evil and why. You say calvinism is this and that shows you're following some sort of fad from dumb people. I don't really have time for stupidity.

This question is not stupid if you are honestly seeking truth:
Does Calvinism teach that God caused sin?

I'm not teaching that.

 

[beloved57]

You're idea of total depravity is not Biblical; Jesus draws all men.


You're assuming something that is not there. The "carnal mind" is not a noun; it is a verb-- "the minding of the flesh" is what cannot please God. That is correct; if you're "minding the flesh", you're loving the flesh, and not loving God.

You're looking for something in scripture that isn't there.

He loved us before we love Him. Jesus draws all men.

Your view of the sovereignty of God is your hang-up; so you look for a way in scripture to prove sovereignty the way you believe it.

There are some things that God can't do; He cannot violate His character, and He cannot force love; not ever; even if scripture says He can. Love is not love when forced.

Example: With God all things are possible, but that doesn't mean He can lie. Why? His character is the basis for interpretation.

Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain or author of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Heb 5:9

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;


He is the Author of them that are obeying Him, for that is evidence of their Salvation from Him. This is True because by nature they are as the children of disobedience Eph 2:2-3

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

We cannot obey God in that nature we have by nature, our obedience comes out of an New Nature which Christ is the Author of !

Again, He is the Author of Salvation specifically to those who are obeying Him, which means their obeying Him has been caused by Him being the Author of their Salvation.

We must be saved from or out of disobedience / unbelief, which we were made unto because of sin Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Unbelief here also means disobedience , and by nature we are in it permanently, nothing but New Birth can free us !

By nature we are imprisoned therein unto disobedience, so we must be saved out of it in order to become obedient, or to obey or as the word obey means in Heb 5:9 hupakouó:

I listen, hearken to, obey, answer, ("obey" is acting under the authority of the one speaking, i.e. really listening to the one giving the charge (order).

to hearken to a command, i. e. to obey, be obedient unto, submit

This by nature as carnal and in the flesh we cannot do Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Notice that Paul says " neither indeed can be"

That simply denotes inability to be subject to God by nature ! Being subject means obedience, or obeying Him !

Now understand what Heb 5:9 must be saying, That one does not first obey Jesus to get Eternal Salvation, But He saves them, Authors their Salvation so that they may now beging to obey Him.

The fact is, He cannot be the Author or causer of our Salvation our obedience, if in fact we are not saved by Him until after we become obedient on our own, that makes our own obedience the cause or author of our salvation.

But yet how could we obey Him, if we were not already saved out of disobedience ?

Heb 5:8-9

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Is teaching the same thing as Rom 5:19b

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

By His Obedience, those He represented become experimetnally obedient, just as those adam represented became experimentally disobedient ! Paul says of the Elect Titus 3:3

For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

But Christ's death changes that, and Authored our Obedience Heb 5:9

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

May Christ be Glorified for any and all Obedience to the Gospel !



Posted from the TOL App!

 

[blackbirdking]

Heb 2:9-10

But yet how could we obey Him, if we were not already saved out of disobedience ?

Posted from the TOL App!

He draws all men.

Why would anybody believe the world was not round?
Answer: Because they couldn't see it.

Are you deceived?

 

[beloved57]

He draws all men.

Why would anybody believe the world was not round?
Answer: Because they couldn't see it.

Are you deceived?

Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain or author of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Heb 5:9

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;


He is the Author of them that are obeying Him, for that is evidence of their Salvation from Him. This is True because by nature they are as the children of disobedience Eph 2:2-3

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

We cannot obey God in that nature we have by nature, our obedience comes out of an New Nature which Christ is the Author of !

Again, He is the Author of Salvation specifically to those who are obeying Him, which means their obeying Him has been caused by Him being the Author of their Salvation.

We must be saved from or out of disobedience / unbelief, which we were made unto because of sin Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Unbelief here also means disobedience , and by nature we are in it permanently, nothing but New Birth can free us !

By nature we are imprisoned therein unto disobedience, so we must be saved out of it in order to become obedient, or to obey or as the word obey means in Heb 5:9 hupakouó:

I listen, hearken to, obey, answer, ("obey" is acting under the authority of the one speaking, i.e. really listening to the one giving the charge (order).

to hearken to a command, i. e. to obey, be obedient unto, submit

This by nature as carnal and in the flesh we cannot do Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Notice that Paul says " neither indeed can be"

That simply denotes inability to be subject to God by nature ! Being subject means obedience, or obeying Him !

Now understand what Heb 5:9 must be saying, That one does not first obey Jesus to get Eternal Salvation, But He saves them, Authors their Salvation so that they may now beging to obey Him.

The fact is, He cannot be the Author or causer of our Salvation our obedience, if in fact we are not saved by Him until after we become obedient on our own, that makes our own obedience the cause or author of our salvation.

But yet how could we obey Him, if we were not already saved out of disobedience ?

Heb 5:8-9

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Is teaching the same thing as Rom 5:19b

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

By His Obedience, those He represented become experimetnally obedient, just as those adam represented became experimentally disobedient ! Paul says of the Elect Titus 3:3

For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

But Christ's death changes that, and Authored our Obedience Heb 5:9

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

May Christ be Glorified for any and all Obedience to the Gospel !



Posted from the TOL App!


Posted from the TOL App!

 

[TulipBee]

He draws all men.

Why would anybody believe the world was not round?
Answer: Because they couldn't see it.

Are you deceived?

I see that drawing is an action like a will. If God commands, it's is a will. If God draws, it is a will. I see it that way. I know arminian theology but from that point of view, I don't see it that way. Like I said before, calvinism doesn't speak of God making mistakes. You say things like trick questions which doesn't work in the traditional calvinism and traditional arminianism. The language you use comes from some fringe movement. I think that movement will die away real quick when arminians will run out of quotes to back up thier false theologies

 

[Cross Reference]

I see that drawing is an action like a will. If God commands, it's is a will. If God draws, it is a will. I see it that way. I know arminian theology but from that point of view, I don't see it that way. Like I said before, calvinism doesn't speak of God making mistakes. You say things like trick questions which doesn't work in the traditional calvinism and traditional arminianism. The language you use comes from some fringe movement. I think that movement will die away real quick when arminians will run out of quotes to back up thier false theologies

May I?

The problem lies with why Adam sinned. Calvinism says Adam was created perfect and God doesn't make mistakes so there had to be another reason for Adam's failure. Their first mistake is believing Adam was created perfect instead of merely innocent , to be proven. Why? because God had plans for him and, as with Jesus, he had to reveal his allegiance to either Himself [God] or as Lucifer did, to his created self. They were the ground rules of the game between God and Satan __the angels were watching. Which one would Adam obey? Would he obey God's command or go his own way. Now, in Calvin's thinking, believing he was perfect, God had to decree his failure for him to sin, using the warped reasoning it had to be that way so Jesus could come on the scene and redeem him [mankind]

Shall I continue?