Free will

Epoisses

New member
One of the great mysteries of the gospel is how can free will and election both be part of the gospel? Free will is the study of man's choice and election is the study of God's choice. God's choice always trumps man's choice but human beings do have free will. We are not robots as the blind Calvinist might suppose. When we first come to Christ our will is at variance with God's will and this is where the worst struggles in the Christian walk take place. But as we grow closer to Christ our will grows closer to his and the struggles become less severe. The goal for every Christian is to have our will merged into God's will so that when we do the things we want we are really doing the things that God wants. And when we refrain from certain things they are things that God wants us to refrain from. Our will always has to bend to God's will. God's will never bends to ours which is the hardest lesson to learn. One of the best analogies for understanding free will is that God is in control of everything but he controls no man. God will guide, lead and direct all of our paths but he will not force us to drink of the water of life. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely - Rev. 22:17.
 

genuineoriginal

New member
One of the great mysteries of the gospel is how can free will and election both be part of the gospel? Free will is the study of man's choice and election is the study of God's choice. God's choice always trumps man's choice but human beings do have free will. We are not robots as the blind Calvinist might suppose. When we first come to Christ our will is at variance with God's will and this is where the worst struggles in the Christian walk take place. But as we grow closer to Christ our will grows closer to his and the struggles become less severe. The goal for every Christian is to have our will merged into God's will so that when we do the things we want we are really doing the things that God wants. And when we refrain from certain things they are things that God wants us to refrain from. Our will always has to bend to God's will. God's will never bends to ours which is the hardest lesson to learn. One of the best analogies for understanding free will is that God is in control of everything but he controls no man. God will guide, lead and direct all of our paths but he will not force us to drink of the water of life. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely - Rev. 22:17.
Very good.
 

Nanja

Well-known member
Who are the whosoever wills ?

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...s-and-Varied-Truth-s-of-scripture!/page47#701


Rev 22:17

17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Often times false teachers allude to this scripture or one similar to advocate the false doctrine of mans freewill, even though this verse makes no claim whatsoever that men have a freewill. In fact this verse is speaking to them that have a willing heart, or have been made willing in the day of His Power Ps 110:3Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

And just as important this one will be a thirsty sinner, hence the whosoever will and he that athirst must be the same ! Now the word athirst dipsaō means:

I.to suffer thirst, suffer from thirst
A.
figuratively, those who are said to thirst who painfully feel their want of, and eagerly long for, those things by which the soul is refreshed, supported, strengthened

The Idea is like that of David here Ps 42:2

My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?

Its also a present active participle, and it means those who painfully feel their want for things by which the soul is refreshed. It should be reminded that this is not a natural thirst, but a spiritual thirst, which is indicative of spiritual life !

Its a spiritual blessing to thirst Matt 5:6

Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Same thing here Isa 55:1

Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

Not everyone without exception is called, but everyone that thirsteth !

Isa 44:3

For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:

Now who can be thirsty and craving the Living God except those Born of God, for we by nature do not seek or thirst after the True God Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh/crave/desire after God.

Hence, the whosoever will [desiring] of Rev 22:17 are not those of the natural man, but those Born of God, its an inbirth spiritual persuasion !

Remember the word come in Rev 22:17 is an imperative, a command, so those in the flesh, or with the carnal mind, are not subject to the command of God Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Now how can the carnal mind be desiring and thirsting for the Living God, when in fact its enmity against God !

So once again, the whosoever will in Rev 22:17 is one that is Born of the Spirit ! Jn 3:6,8

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Temp Banned
I have yet to see one verse that says man has a freewill. In fact the contrary is indicated, a man cant come to Christ except it's given to them of the Father Jn 6:65

And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Temp Banned
Who are the whosoever wills ?

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...s-and-Varied-Truth-s-of-scripture!/page47#701


Rev 22:17

17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Often times false teachers allude to this scripture or one similar to advocate the false doctrine of mans freewill, even though this verse makes no claim whatsoever that men have a freewill. In fact this verse is speaking to them that have a willing heart, or have been made willing in the day of His Power Ps 110:3Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

And just as important this one will be a thirsty sinner, hence the whosoever will and he that athirst must be the same ! Now the word athirst dipsaō means:

I.to suffer thirst, suffer from thirst
A.
figuratively, those who are said to thirst who painfully feel their want of, and eagerly long for, those things by which the soul is refreshed, supported, strengthened

The Idea is like that of David here Ps 42:2

My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?

Its also a present active participle, and it means those who painfully feel their want for things by which the soul is refreshed. It should be reminded that this is not a natural thirst, but a spiritual thirst, which is indicative of spiritual life !

Its a spiritual blessing to thirst Matt 5:6

Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Same thing here Isa 55:1

Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

Not everyone without exception is called, but everyone that thirsteth !

Isa 44:3

For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:

Now who can be thirsty and craving the Living God except those Born of God, for we by nature do not seek or thirst after the True God Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh/crave/desire after God.

Hence, the whosoever will [desiring] of Rev 22:17 are not those of the natural man, but those Born of God, its an inbirth spiritual persuasion !

Remember the word come in Rev 22:17 is an imperative, a command, so those in the flesh, or with the carnal mind, are not subject to the command of God Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Now how can the carnal mind be desiring and thirsting for the Living God, when in fact its enmity against God !

So once again, the whosoever will in Rev 22:17 is one that is Born of the Spirit ! Jn 3:6,8

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Amen Sister !
 

genuineoriginal

New member
Often times false teachers allude to this scripture or one similar to advocate the false doctrine of mans freewill, even though this verse makes no claim whatsoever that men have a freewill.
The false teachers are the ones that teach that there is no free will.
The belief in determinism came from Greek Philosophy and relies on what they imagined would be a "perfect" god.
The belief then came into Christianity from the Gentile converts.
 

genuineoriginal

New member
I have yet to see one verse that says man has a freewill.

Isaiah 66:3-4
3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.
4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

 

Nanja

Well-known member
The false teachers are the ones that teach that there is no free will.
The belief in determinism came from Greek Philosophy and relies on what they imagined would be a "perfect" god.
The belief then came into Christianity from the Gentile converts.


Invalid comments not found in scripture.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Temp Banned

Isaiah 66:3-4
3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.
4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.


Still dont see a verse stating man has a freewill. Man cant come to Christ of his own freewill Jn 8:65
 

genuineoriginal

New member
Still dont see a verse stating man has a freewill.

Revelation 3:17-18
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

 

beloved57

Well-known member
Temp Banned

Revelation 3:17-18
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Rabbit Trail

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk
 

WatchmanOnTheWall

New member
One of the great mysteries of the gospel is how can free will and election both be part of the gospel? Free will is the study of man's choice and election is the study of God's choice. God's choice always trumps man's choice but human beings do have free will. We are not robots as the blind Calvinist might suppose. When we first come to Christ our will is at variance with God's will and this is where the worst struggles in the Christian walk take place. But as we grow closer to Christ our will grows closer to his and the struggles become less severe. The goal for every Christian is to have our will merged into God's will so that when we do the things we want we are really doing the things that God wants. And when we refrain from certain things they are things that God wants us to refrain from. Our will always has to bend to God's will. God's will never bends to ours which is the hardest lesson to learn. One of the best analogies for understanding free will is that God is in control of everything but he controls no man. God will guide, lead and direct all of our paths but he will not force us to drink of the water of life. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely - Rev. 22:17.

It is a Paradox:

The word Paradox is the same in Hebrew and English: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=h...69i60j69i61.7055j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Free will and fate are two sides of the same coin, both coexist in this reality and while this seems counter intuitive it is made possible by God who created this reality who can do anything.

Matthew 19:26
Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
 

nikolai_42

Well-known member
One of the great mysteries of the gospel is how can free will and election both be part of the gospel? Free will is the study of man's choice and election is the study of God's choice. God's choice always trumps man's choice but human beings do have free will. We are not robots as the blind Calvinist might suppose. When we first come to Christ our will is at variance with God's will and this is where the worst struggles in the Christian walk take place. But as we grow closer to Christ our will grows closer to his and the struggles become less severe. The goal for every Christian is to have our will merged into God's will so that when we do the things we want we are really doing the things that God wants. And when we refrain from certain things they are things that God wants us to refrain from. Our will always has to bend to God's will. God's will never bends to ours which is the hardest lesson to learn. One of the best analogies for understanding free will is that God is in control of everything but he controls no man. God will guide, lead and direct all of our paths but he will not force us to drink of the water of life. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely - Rev. 22:17.

So when you say "free will", what do you mean? Do you mean an untethered will? Or do you mean one that makes choices based on some predilection or predisposition?
 

Epoisses

New member
Who are the whosoever wills ?

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...s-and-Varied-Truth-s-of-scripture!/page47#701


Rev 22:17

17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Often times false teachers allude to this scripture or one similar to advocate the false doctrine of mans freewill, even though this verse makes no claim whatsoever that men have a freewill. In fact this verse is speaking to them that have a willing heart, or have been made willing in the day of His Power Ps 110:3Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

And just as important this one will be a thirsty sinner, hence the whosoever will and he that athirst must be the same ! Now the word athirst dipsaō means:

I.to suffer thirst, suffer from thirst
A.
figuratively, those who are said to thirst who painfully feel their want of, and eagerly long for, those things by which the soul is refreshed, supported, strengthened

The Idea is like that of David here Ps 42:2

My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?

Its also a present active participle, and it means those who painfully feel their want for things by which the soul is refreshed. It should be reminded that this is not a natural thirst, but a spiritual thirst, which is indicative of spiritual life !

Its a spiritual blessing to thirst Matt 5:6

Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Same thing here Isa 55:1

Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

Not everyone without exception is called, but everyone that thirsteth !

Isa 44:3

For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:

Now who can be thirsty and craving the Living God except those Born of God, for we by nature do not seek or thirst after the True God Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh/crave/desire after God.

Hence, the whosoever will [desiring] of Rev 22:17 are not those of the natural man, but those Born of God, its an inbirth spiritual persuasion !

Remember the word come in Rev 22:17 is an imperative, a command, so those in the flesh, or with the carnal mind, are not subject to the command of God Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Now how can the carnal mind be desiring and thirsting for the Living God, when in fact its enmity against God !

So once again, the whosoever will in Rev 22:17 is one that is Born of the Spirit ! Jn 3:6,8

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Heretic.
 
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