Free will is simply....

intojoy

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You sure insist on complicating the obvious.

This is really quite simple.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 11:2 For by it the elders obtained a good report. 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh. 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

And so on.

In other words, the gospel presents man with a crystal clear picture of his fallen condition and its expected end result, Romans 1:18-3:20.

Together with that, it presents man with an escape from that "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved, and they house" Acts 16:31; Romans 3:21-31.

At which point man has a choice: whether to choose to believe the gospel, or to choose to reject it.

This is no different than choosing to believe or not believe anything else in life.

Just as you choose to believe that the link you are about to click on in your response to this post, will send said response forward.

Faith is that simple.

As Hebrews 11 asserts, faith is often against what appears too good to be true.

The very problem of every Grace illiterate out there against Justification by Grace through Faith ALONE.

Nevertheless...

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

As in Abraham's case...

Romans 4:18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be. 4:19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb: 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

Exactly!

Hebrews 11:1's "faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

God's response?

Romans 4:22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. 4:23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

You...are going against this that was written about how faith actually works: by choice.

Romans 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above: ) 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

You see that - man's expected response is to choose to believe the evidence of things not seen.

Notice...

Romans 10:19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. 10:20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. 10:21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

Those Unbelieving Israelites chose to not believe; chose to be a disobedient and gainsaying people.

Romans 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 9:32 Wherefore? BECAUSE THEY SOUGHT IT not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: AND WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH ON HIM SHALL NOT BE ashamed.

Which is the issue of one putting one's money where one's mouth is...

John 12:42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue: 12:43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

But the point again is that it is obvious that faith is a choice.

Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, BUT ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 6:18 BEING THEN MADE FREE from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

It effectually works in you THAT BELIEVE.

NOT SO THAT you believe.

Whether or not, you - choose - to believe - that...is your choice.

Rom. 5:6-8.

What is your belief on infant salvation?


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Stripe

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Free will is simply wishful thinking on the part of man.



"I know, O Yah Veh, that a man's way is not his own; no one who walks directs his own steps".

"We can make our plans, but the Yah Veh determines our steps."

If you have free will why is your life so miserable? Why don't you have all things that your free will has determined you deserve? Why do things not turn out the way your free will has determined?

3 X's ? are rhetorical.


"for dominion belongs to Yah Veh and he rules over the nations." Despite mans wishful thinking.
"Free will" is a tautology. If it's not free, it's not a will.

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Stripe

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I would've said that it's your prerogative to do so but apparently it's God's will...not yours or mine.
So, no call, no foul! :idunno:
:rotfl:

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Truster

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"Free will" is a tautology. If it's not free, it's not a will.

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You are obviously ignorant of what "will" means. Satan has a will, but it is not free. A sinner is free to sin, but is a slave to sin. Tautology means using two consecutive words that have the same meaning. Like stupid idiot. I'm sure you've heard that many times.
 

Stripe

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Repeating the same error does not a truth make. De Servo Arbitrio.

Words mean things.

Free means you can choose as you will.

A will is the ability to choose.

If it's not free, it's not a will.


will, wɪl/ noun
the faculty by which a person decides on and initiates action.

free, friː/ adjective
able to act or be done as one wishes; not under the control of another.

 

Truster

New member
The Regulative Principle of Religion
Thirdly, essential to religion is the revelation of God‟s will as the regulative principle according to which man, as a servant, must engage himself. It has not been left to man to determine the manner in which he would serve God, for then he would stand above God. Anyone who engages himself in this way exalts himself above God and displeases the Lord in all his activity. “But in vain they do worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men” (Matt15:9).

Rather, the Lord Himself establishes for and reveals to man the regulative principle, indicating what He requires man to do and in which manner He wishes this to be accomplished. should not a people seek unto their God ...”To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this Word, it is because there is no light in them” (Isa 8:19-
20); “That ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God” (Rom 12:2).

WILHELMUS à BRAKEL, Th. F.
 

Truster

New member
Words mean things.

Free means you can choose as you will.

A will is the ability to choose.

If it's not free, it's not a will.


will, wɪl/ noun
the faculty by which a person decides on and initiates action.

free, friː/ adjective
able to act or be done as one wishes; not under the control of another.


Free does not convey choice. Birds are seemingly free, lions are seemingly free, but not by choice. They are subject to bondage by the will of Elohim. Romans.
 

Truster

New member
"No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me".


If you think that you have or are bearing fruit by the power of your own will then you will hear the words, "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity".
 

intojoy

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Words mean things.

Free means you can choose as you will.

A will is the ability to choose.

If it's not free, it's not a will.


will, wɪl/ noun
the faculty by which a person decides on and initiates action.

free, friː/ adjective
able to act or be done as one wishes; not under the control of another.


Free to choose according to one’s nature yes. Not free to will oneself into righteousness.


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Danoh

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Free does not convey choice. Birds are seemingly free, lions are seemingly free, but not by choice. They are subject to bondage by the will of Elohim. Romans.

Birds, etc., do not appear Consciously Aware of their choices. As a result, they tend to go about functioning like automatons.

I'm reminded of a city pigeon I once observed, as a child.

A traffic light was on Red.

The pigeon spots a crumb under the rear tire of a car stopped in traffic.

By the time it makes its way over to that crumb, the light is at Yellow.

Just as it pokes its head right under that tire to reach that crumb, the light turns Green and the pigeon's head goes "Splat!"

Conscious choice on that pigeon's part?

Nope.

We're talkin creatures that live in their own excrement, and even build nests for their young out of it.

In contrast, Romans 1 asserts that man knew of God but Consciously CHOSE NOT TO acknowledge Him His due.

Which is actually a reiteration of man's Conscious Choice in Genesis 11, against God's edict in Genesis 9.

Genesis 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.

9:7 And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein.

Genesis 11:1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech. 11:2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there. 11:3 And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter. 11:4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth. 11:5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. 11:6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. 11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. 11:8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city. 11:9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

Why?

Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

You are not a pigeon, nor do you have any right to be looking to the lower forms of creation for your example of man.

Leave that to the secular world.

Try instead Consciously Choosing to go with what Scripture actually says on these things over your Unconsciously Choosing to go with your own two cents ("the wisdom of men").

1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Isaiah 8:20.

Rom. 5:6-8.
 

genuineoriginal

New member
"God made man in His own image, so man has free will by his very nature and nothing man does can change that".


And so man can create his own planets, because Elohim did? Yeah, take a hike.

God made man in His own image with free will, not in His own nature with the power to create planets.

You are really going off the deep end in your attempts to deny the reality of free will.
 
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