For Sincere Inquisitors ONLY: MAD Explained

[Jerry Shugart]

There is no "gospel of grace", but the "gospel of Christ" was preached here. Once again, the "gospel of the grace of God" is the "gospel of Christ" with an expanded reach.

Here is what Paul said in his defense when he was charged with being a "mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world" (Acts 24:5):

"Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles" (Acts 26:22).​

Paul's testimony to the Jews was based on nothing but what was foretold in the OT-"what the prophets and Moses did say should come."

However, the gospel of grace which Paul preached was a mystery truth and not revealed in the OT:

"But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory" (1 Cor.2:7-8).​

If the princes of the world knew that believers are JUSTIFIED FREELY BY HIS GRACE THROUGH THE REDEMPTION THAT IS IN CHRIST JESUS then they would never have crucified Him. So the gospel which Paul preached to the Jews was based on nothing but what the OT foretold.

The gospel Paul preached to the Gentiles was based on mystery truths, truths which were not revealed in the OT:

"Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past..." (Ro.16:25).​

Acts 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

The OT foretold of this justification:

"He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities" (Isa.53:11).​

But what was kept secret is how the Lord Jesus could justify many and that is by "the redemption that is in Christ Jesus."

So the gospel which Paul preached to the Jews was based on nothing but what the OT foretold. The gospel he preached to the Gentiles was based on things not revealed in the OT.

 

[Danoh]

I read this:

"Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles" (Acts 26:22).

And I get what I get from all its other like passages - that Paul is asserting he is not saying anything in contradiction concerning the resurrection of Christ; His light unto the people and to the Gentiles that is a contradiction to what was prophesied.

Mystery truth? Nope.

Consider, for example, Simeon's words in Luke 1:

29. Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:
30. For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,
31. Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;
32. A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

His light unto the people and to the Gentiles that is a contradiction to what was prophesied.

In what way is it a contradiction to what was foretold at Isaiah 49:6and 60:1-3?

Consider, for example, Simeon's words in Luke 1:

Those words are found at Luke 2.

And I get what I get from all its other like passages - that Paul is asserting he is not saying anything in contradiction concerning the resurrection of Christ.

Paul is saying that He preached nothing which was not found in the OT:

"saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come." ​

 

[Danoh]

In what way is it a contradiction to what was foretold at Isaiah 49:6and 60:1-3?

Point is, Paul was asserting that what he was relating was not in contradiction - whether through Israel's rise first, or directly during Israel's fall; the foundation of both is Christ: Romans 15:8-12, in contrast to Romans 15:13-21, in light of Eph. 2:20's "built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;"

Those words are found at Luke 2.

Just getting you away from the Greek and back to the Bible

Nah, just messin; thanks!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Point is, Paul was asserting that what he was relating was not in contradiction

He was saying much more than that. He was saying that He preached no other things than those which the prophets and Moses foretold:

"saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come."​

 

[Danoh]

He was saying much more than that. He was saying that He preached no other things than those which the prophets and Moses foretold:

"saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come."​

Which was what?

Acts 26:

6. And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God, unto our fathers:
7. Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.
8. Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?
9. I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth.

That's it - that is the foundation of both hopes - the resurrected Christ.

2 Timothy 2:

7. Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.
8. Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
9. Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.

That's it - that is the foundation of both hopes - the resurrected Christ.

He is arguing for that; not for its details in either aspect of God's Two-Fold Purpose: Prophecy and Mystery.

 

[Danoh]

Danoh, the Great, can you elaborate which mystery I listed that you take exception to? I'm not following completely. thanks

The mystery of Christ is the Church, Eph. 5. It is Christ in you, the hope of glory, Col. 1:27. It is the mystery of Godliness, 1 Timothy 3:16.

This Mystery of our glory in the Lord of glory was ordained before the world unto our glory and hid in God, for had they known this New Creature would be made possible at the Cross, those fallen princes of this age we will one day replace as the fulness of Him that filleth all thrones, dominions, and principalities in those high places, at our Mystery catching up, 1 Cor. 15, 1 Tim. 3; Eph. 6; they would not have crucified the Lord of this Mystery's glory, 1 Cor. 2; Ephesians 1.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Which was what?

The gospel which Paul preached to the Jews was promised beforehand by the OT prophets:

"Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures, concerning His Son..." (Ro.1:1).​

The gospel which Paul preached to the Gentiles was one which was not revealed by the OT prophets but instead was kept secret:

"Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past" (Ro.16:25).​

Two different gospels, one based on prophecy and the other kept secret.

And Paul himself supports this by saying that to the Jews he preached no other things than those which the prophets and Moses foretold:

"saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come." (Acts 26:22).​

 

[glorydaz]

And Paul himself supports this by saying that to the Jews he preached no other things than those which the prophets and Moses foretold:

"saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come." (Acts 26:22).​

I think he is talking about the charges that were being made that he spoke against the law of Moses, and against the temple and the Jews. You seem to be reading more into it that I can see. He was stating he hadn't contradicted anything the Prophets and Moses had said.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I think he is talking about the charges that were being made that he spoke against the law of Moses, and against the temple and the Jews. You seem to be reading more into it that I can see. He was stating he hadn't contradicted anything the Prophets and Moses had said.

That is your opinion but I see nothing in Paul's words which even hint that your view is correct.

Rome allowed Judaism as a religio licita (a legal religion) but they would not allow those of that religion to depart from the teaching of Judaism. By using the term the "sect of the Nazarenes" the lawyer tried to make Paul's faith appear to be bizarre.

And in defense of this charge Paul made it plain that everything which he taught could be found in the OT:

"saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come." (Acts 26:22).​

So he could not be charged with departing from Judaism.

 

[heir]

The gospel which Paul preached to the Jews was promised beforehand by the OT prophets:

"Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures, concerning His Son..." (Ro.1:1).​

The gospel of God is the WHO of Jesus Christ and that God raised Him from the dead as Romans 1:1-4 KJV declares. I believe it is the faith the Romans already had (Romans 1:8 KJV). What's surprising about your comment above is that Romans was written to Gentiles, not Jews (Romans 1:13 KJV, Romans 11:13 KJV). Although, if you want to really get technical, they were Gentiles "called a Jew" (Romans 2:17 KJV)!

The gospel of God is not the gospel of Christ which is the WHY of the cross!

1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

1 Corinthians 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

1 Corinthians 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

It is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

And look who it was to, above!

And again, if you want to get technical, the gospel of the grace of God (Acts 20:24 KJV) is the same good news that "Christ died for our sins" and "that He was buried" and "and that He rose again the third day"- an extension of the same good news (1 Corinthians 15: 1-4 KJV), but not a mystery/"wisdom of God in a mystery" (1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV) that is also "according to the scriptures" (1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV), but a mystery hid in God(Ephesians 3:9 KJV) and not "to the Jew first and also to the Greek" (Romans 1:16 KJV), but to all men (1 Timothy 2:4-6 KJV)!

So while you have Paul preaching two gospels,

Two different gospels, one based on prophecy and the other kept secret.

he actually/technically, preached three!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

he actually/technically, preached three!

Then please give me the content of each of those gospels and where they can be found in the Scriptures.

Thanks!

 

[heir]

Then please give me the content of each of those gospels and where they can be found in the Scriptures.

Thanks!

I already did

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I already did

Let me explain the "content" of the two gospels of which I spoke of and perhaps then you will know what I mean when I use the word "content."

Now the word "gospel" means good news. So let us look at this verse with that in mind:

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel (good news) of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek" (Ro.1:16).​

The "good news" that was preached to the Jews first is the message that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.

And the belief in that "good news" is life and salvation:

"But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" (Jn.20:31).​

The good news which was preached to the Greeks and the Gentiles is this message:

"I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures" (1Cor.1:1-4).​

Here Paul says that this gospel saved them.

Now you speak of a third gospel. Please tell me the "content" of that third gospel. In other words, the "content" of the gospel which was first preached to the Jews was the message that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. And belief in that content brought salvation.

Again, what was the "content" of the third Gospel of which you speak?

 

[heir]

Let me explain the "content" of the two gospels of which I spoke of and perhaps then you will know what I mean when I use the word "content."

Now the word "gospel" means good news. So let us look at this verse with that in mind:

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel (good news) of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek" (Ro.1:16).​

The "good news" that was preached to the Jews first is the message that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.

And the belief in that "good news" is life and salvation:

"But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" (Jn.20:31).​

The good news which was preached to the Greeks and the Gentiles is this message:

"I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures" (1Cor.1:1-4).​

Here Paul says that this gospel saved them.

Now you speak of a third gospel. Please tell me the "content" of that third gospel. In other words, the "content" of the gospel which was first preached to the Jews was the message that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. And belief in that content brought salvation.

Again, what was the "content" of the third Gospel of which you speak?

You've got it wrong! The gospel of Christ is not the WHO of Jesus Christ and that God raised Him from the dead. That's the gospel of God (Romans 1:1-4 KJV).

The gospel of Christ is the WHY of the cross; that Christ died for "our" sins and that He was buried and rose again the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV). It was a mystery hidden in the scriptures ("according to the scriptures") until revealed to and through the apostle Paul (Romans 16:25-27 KJV, 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV, Galatians 1:11-12 KJV). The audience of the "our" being those in the commonwealth of Israel (Jews, Jewish proselytes called Jews and Greeks). These are two whom Paul was first sent (Acts 26:17 KJV) until the remnant according to the elction of grace was gathered (Romans 1:1-5 KJV, Acts 28:24-31 KJV)!

The gospel of the grace of God is the same good news as the gospel of Christ; that Christ died for our sins and that He was buried and rose again the third day, but not just the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom/a mystery "according to the scriptures", but a mystery hid in God/the manifold wisdom of God (Ephesians 3:9-10 KJV). It is the glorious news that Christ not only died for some men's sins, but ALL MEN's sins (1 Timothy 2:4-6 KJV) including that of Gentiles such as we (Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV)!

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You've got it wrong! The gospel of Christ is not the WHO of Jesus Christ and that God raised Him from the dead. That's the gospel of God (Romans 1:1-4 KJV).

The gospel of Christ is the WHY of the cross; that Christ died for "our" sins and that He was buried and rose again the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV). It was a mystery hidden in the scriptures ("according to the scriptures") until revealed to and through the apostle Paul (Romans 16:25-27 KJV, 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV, Galatians 1:11-12 KJV). The audience of the "our" being those in the commonwealth of Israel

The gospel or good news concerning the purpose of the Cross, that believers are "justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus," was not preached to the Jews first, as you imagine.

If you still think that you are right then just give me one instance where that message was preached to the Jews before it was preached to the Gentiles.

(Jews, Jewish proselytes called Jews and Greeks). These are two whom Paul was first sent (Acts 26:17 KJV) until the remnant according to the elction of grace was gathered (Romans 1:1-5 KJV, Acts 28:24-31 KJV)!

The first bit of good news which Paul preached to the Jews is this:

"And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God...proving that this is the very Christ" (Acts 9:20,22).​

The gospel of the grace of God is the same good news as the gospel of Christ; that Christ died for our sins and that He was buried and rose again the third day, but not just the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom/a mystery "according to the scriptures", but a mystery hid in God/the manifold wisdom of God (Ephesians 3:9-10 KJV).

Again, show me where the message that Christ died for our sins was preached to the Jews before it was to the Gentiles.

Besides that, you failed to give me the "content" of the third gospel of which you spoke.

 

[heir]

Again, show me where the message that Christ died for our sins was preached to the Jews before it was to the Gentiles.

Romans 1:16 KJV

 

[heir]

The first bit of good news which Paul preached to the Jews is this:

"And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God...proving that this is the very Christ" (Acts 9:20,22).​

Of course Paul preached the WHO of Jesus Christ. The foundation Paul laid was Jesus Christ and Him crucified!

1 Corinthians 2:1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.

1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

 

[heir]

Besides that, you failed to give me the "content" of the third gospel of which you spoke.

I think you may have a reading problem. I most certainly showed you the content of the gospel of the grace of God and to whom it was sent! Go back and read my post again.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Romans 1:16 KJV

That does not prove that the gospel which speaks of the WHY of the Cross was preached to the Jews before the Gentiles.

Of course that never happened and that is why you are unable to show even one instance where it was preached to the Jews prior to it being preached to the Gentiles. You got that idea out of thin air.

You still have not told me the content of that third gospel of which you speak. Is that third gospel this one in "bold":

"But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter" (Gal.2:7).​

What is the content of the "gospel of the circumcision"?

Were Paul and Peter preaching two different gospels to the Jews at the same time during the Acts period?

I think you may have a reading problem. I most certainly showed you the content of the gospel of the grace of God and to whom it was sent! Go back and read my post again.

I agree that was on of the gospels Paul preached but I wanted you to give me the content of that third gospel of which you spoke. I think you have a memory problem.