Thanks! I hope you're doing well, gp.
For Sincere Inquisitors ONLY: MAD Explained
- Thread starter chickenman
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Thanks! I hope you're doing well, gp.
graceandpeace
New member
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Just some general information regarding Paul's "Acts ministry".
Romans 16
25: Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26: But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
Paul's gospel was according to a mystery kept hidden since the world began, but in Romans 1-8 he uses the scriptures of the prophets to manifest this mystery.
This mystery has 3 parts:
1. That Christ died for Jews/Gentiles who were in the covenants of promise
2. That the salvation of these Gentiles came through the fall of Israel
3. That these Jews/Gentiles would be on equal ground, (in the same Body)
These things were never known, until Paul revealed them.
Romans 16
25: Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26: But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
Paul's gospel was according to a mystery kept hidden since the world began, but in Romans 1-8 he uses the scriptures of the prophets to manifest this mystery.
This mystery has 3 parts:
1. That Christ died for Jews/Gentiles who were in the covenants of promise
2. That the salvation of these Gentiles came through the fall of Israel
3. That these Jews/Gentiles would be on equal ground, (in the same Body)
These things were never known, until Paul revealed them.
I will answer any question you have because you believe the gospel and are in the Body of Christ.
graceandpeace
New member
I agree they were not known to the world...but, to say they were not known is not quite right. They were known by the very prophets that prophesized of it, and they were known by those whom God taught the very gospel to, whom walked by faith. There are not two types of faith.
The bible makes it clear they looked forward to OUR day; if they did not know of OUR day, how in the world did they look forward to it?
Mad makes the bible make no sense.
The mystery was revealed to Paul that NOW all can know of it.
That is MAD. That is our point. Jesus said to obey the pharisee. Do you? Of course not.
The author had the veil taken away by Paul, or somebody Paul preached to. The veil was the hidden gospel. The mystery. This doesn't change anything.
That isn't correct. There were those that thought they were righteous on their own account. Instead of those that thought they were because God made them righteous. God adds grace to works. James absolutely confirmed it. Show their faith by their works, and they would receive the Spirit. That is circumcision.
Back to the point I made. Some say you have to do it, or you are not saved. It was a part of the Pentecost. Repent (stop sinning, sell goods-don't take the mark of the beast), water baptism, then Jesus baptises them with the Holy Spirit. That is not what Paul preached, but it is what Peter preached.
I have copied and will paste in different part.
graceandpeace
New member
Thank you Nick..I believe you madists are in the body of Christ, too...because I know your stance on the gospel to the gentiles, which is the gospel that saves..salvation by grace and faith alone.
My question to you is how come you guys separate the faithful that walked and looked forward to our day, knowing it was coming, as written, as if they did not know?
:first:
graceandpeace
New member
Hi Nick...I hope to clear up some of my questions, and hopefully show my point of view, because we are not in agreement on this MAD issue...but, sense we both understand the gospel, we can have a decent exchange....
Nick:
No, Jesus told those whom were yet under the law to obey the law. Even Jesus did not keep the letter of the law; He walked His own law that priorly existed as written. The letter of the law was made for sinners to be a schoolmaster to lead them to Christ; so Jesus was just equating what those under it should do...same as in the old covenant. None of the ot saints were under the letter, in the same fashion..they walked by the law of Christ; knowing their sins were removed and forgiven, completely. Ask David that said this:
Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 4:7 [Saying], Blessed [are] they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8 Blessed [is] the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
So, you see, the OT saints knew the gospel.
It was Israel after the flesh that did not.
It is Israel after the flesh that was cut off..not those whom were in FAITH in Israel.
Nick:
I just gave you scripture that was written by David..the man after God's own heart that states contrary..I could give ample more that prove that ALL the OT saints, did NOT live under the veil.
Me:
Yes, the israel after the flesh wrongfully used the law..as written. Not the OT saints..that were set apart, sanctified, made holy, by the same blood that we do covering our sins, etc...as DAVID KNEW.
The works for a christian are works of the holy spirit..they are not our own, james 2, last verse.
I know that some misuse the baptism, it is no different than those that misuse circumcision, making it a requirement, they are ALL pharasee's in the spiritual sense....God is not mocked, and He has not changed...they use the sabbath in the same way; making an idol out of a day, instead of finding their rest in Christ and in Him alone.
Peter was corrected on his error, proving he was a true son.
If he would of remained in his wrong way, it would of showed him a liar, but we know God used Paul to correct him.
He sinned due to fear of the jews..that is a fleshly sin, not a sin unto death; unbeleif.
Upon hearing the truth, he stood corrected, and you can even read of his admittance to his former error, just as you can read of Paul's former error as a pharasee, that denounced the dung, and learned to use the law lawfully.
Whether or not Peter was 'born again', prior to his error is debatable, but it is certain that he was fully born again, upon his recognition of wrongfully using the law...as his life proves it.
Nick:
No, Jesus told those whom were yet under the law to obey the law. Even Jesus did not keep the letter of the law; He walked His own law that priorly existed as written. The letter of the law was made for sinners to be a schoolmaster to lead them to Christ; so Jesus was just equating what those under it should do...same as in the old covenant. None of the ot saints were under the letter, in the same fashion..they walked by the law of Christ; knowing their sins were removed and forgiven, completely. Ask David that said this:
Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 4:7 [Saying], Blessed [are] they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8 Blessed [is] the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
So, you see, the OT saints knew the gospel.
It was Israel after the flesh that did not.
It is Israel after the flesh that was cut off..not those whom were in FAITH in Israel.
Nick:
I just gave you scripture that was written by David..the man after God's own heart that states contrary..I could give ample more that prove that ALL the OT saints, did NOT live under the veil.
Me:
Yes, the israel after the flesh wrongfully used the law..as written. Not the OT saints..that were set apart, sanctified, made holy, by the same blood that we do covering our sins, etc...as DAVID KNEW.
The works for a christian are works of the holy spirit..they are not our own, james 2, last verse.
PHP:
Quote:
Water baptism is not against the promises of God, but is merely a physical tradition that is used to show the 'born again' experience.I know that some misuse the baptism, it is no different than those that misuse circumcision, making it a requirement, they are ALL pharasee's in the spiritual sense....God is not mocked, and He has not changed...they use the sabbath in the same way; making an idol out of a day, instead of finding their rest in Christ and in Him alone.
Peter was corrected on his error, proving he was a true son.
If he would of remained in his wrong way, it would of showed him a liar, but we know God used Paul to correct him.
He sinned due to fear of the jews..that is a fleshly sin, not a sin unto death; unbeleif.
Upon hearing the truth, he stood corrected, and you can even read of his admittance to his former error, just as you can read of Paul's former error as a pharasee, that denounced the dung, and learned to use the law lawfully.
Whether or not Peter was 'born again', prior to his error is debatable, but it is certain that he was fully born again, upon his recognition of wrongfully using the law...as his life proves it.
Sorry, but it makes perfect sense to me, gp. People will say the same thing about your views...and about anyone else's views. We all differ and come to different conclusions for different reasons.
graceandpeace
New member
Ok, yes...that is true.
It just does not make sense to me to make two gospels, two kingdoms, two kings, etc.
Thanks.
But we don't make:
A) Two gospels
Rather, we recognize multiple good news messages in the scriptures, strive to understand what are the details of each, and accept that they're there.
B) Two kingdomsRather, we see the promise of an earthly kingdom, even see it descending from heaven to earth in Revelation, and accept it. And we see that we, as members of the Body of Christ, have also already been translated into the spiritual kingdom of our Savior Jesus Christ, thereby acknowledging that there is a broader spiritual kingom
C) Two kingsI don't know what this means. There were a whole bunch of earthly kings. There will be one king in the end, though, and that is Jesus Christ.
D) Etc.What is the "etc." that we also "make"?
Thanks, G&P.
Randy
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Yes, important point.
The Kingdom of God encompasses all of God's children, both in heaven, and on earth.
The Kingdom of Heaven is the main topic of the Old Testament, a heavenly kingdom on the earth.
It's not two kingdoms, one is merely a subset of the greater.
If the Kingdom of God is A, then the Kingdom of Heaven is A1 (on earth) and the Body of Christ is A2 (in heaven).
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Another important point:
When we talk about different gospels, it is assumed that we mean that some people in the Bible were saved without the shed blood of Christ. Nothing could be further from the truth.
But, what people believed, the content of the message, differed in order for them to approach God by faith. That's all we are talking about here.
For example, God made a promise to Abraham, and Abraham believed it. God reckoned him as righteous. This promise did not include the d, b, r of Christ for his sins. Yet, Abraham will be resurrected and saved by the blood of Christ even though he did not know or believe 1 Cor 15:1-4.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
graceandpeace
New member
There is only one gospel that saves, so what would be the point of having another type of good news? Please answer this, for it totally contradicts the ONLY way of salvation...does it not?
So, what would be the purpose of two kingdoms? The bible says the Lord does nothing without revealing it to the prophets...so, it must be written what the purpose would be, if such a thing existed.
Yes, but, you cannot have a kingdom that would be OF God, and eternal as through a man..or are you saying this earthly kingdom will not be eternal; but only temporary, until they enter into Christ? I need to be clear on this.
such things as to church bodies, one for circumcision, one for uncircumcision, two baptism, one for water, and one for spirit...it seems to be MAD that separates these into different categories, when the bible says that the shadows exist in the same 'body', but only stand fulfilled....(shown as the true light)
It is as if you are saying there is some form of life in the shadows and the bible does not teach that; they are just what they are, shadows pointing to a reality. They have no life of their own.
My question is how can you make life out of a dead ritual?
graceandpeace
New member
graceandpeace
New member
but, this is assumption, especially when we read that God did preach the gospel to Abraham, and if you agree there is only one gospel, why would you think He preached something else?
The prophets witness to the death, burial and resurection of Christ...they knew it, or they could of wrote it down to begin with; silly.
Let me ask you this....when God told Abraham to kill his own son, and the story is told...don't you see the story of Christ in that?
Abraham was willing to do it, because God was able to raise the dead, it says here:
Hbr 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten [son],
why?
Hbr 11:18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
Hbr 11:19 Accounting that God [was] able to raise [him] up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
It was the shadow; but Abraham seen way past that...as all those whom walk by faith do...having the spirit of God, one is able to discern spiritual things.
So, you see, Abraham did know, as we see here.
graceandpeace
New member
STP:
the new covenant; they knew of it and knew it was coming and embraced IT:
Hbr 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of [them], and embraced [them], and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
They did not receive the promises of the new covenant in their day; but they knew it was coming and embraced it by faith, same as we now look back, at the cross, they looked forward, knowing it was coming...(only those of faith)
Hbr 11:14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
Hbr 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that [country] from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Hbr 11:16 But now they desire a better [country], that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
their city is heavenly, same as ours.