Every new town that paul enters, he goes straight to the synagogue. If we look at all those passages, i bet we can find that paul preaches the gospel of God first. When he is rejected, we find him talking to gentiles. I bet we find him preaching the gospel of Christ to them.
For Sincere Inquisitors ONLY: MAD Explained
- Thread starter chickenman
- Start date
Acts 18:5 shows the gospel of God preached. Acts 18:6 shows the rejection and turning to the gentiles. Acts 18:13 shows that the gospel of Christ must have been preached because the jews accused paul of persuading men to worship God contrary to the law. The gospel of Christ teaches that our righteousness is apart from the law.
Acts 10 shows a Gentile who feared God and gave alms generously to the Israelites. Luke points this out in Acts 10:2. The angel makes note of this in the vision to Cornelius, when he says:
Seems pretty important.
I think Cornelius is being honored (according to Gen. 12:3...God would bless those who bless the great nation) by God sending Peter to proclaim the gospel of God to him, allowing him to be the first Gentile to whom this message would be preached, and demonstrating a significant change in God's plans. The change is this: salvation of Gentiles was prophecied as something to take place during the kingdom, AFTER the 2nd coming. But the story of Cornelius demonstrates that God would begin doing that BEFORE the 2nd coming of the Son of Man.
Some notable things from this chapter (pertaining to the point of this thread):
I'll let others speak for themselves, but here's why I believe he was saved into the Body...
Peter's message was: believe in the risen Jesus, repent, and be baptized for the remission of sins. He preached the risen Jesus to Cornelius and that believing in Him would result in receiving remission of sins. To be consistent with his previous sermons, he would next be telling Cornelius to be baptized. But as soon as he preaches the risen Jesus and belief in His name to Cornelius, the Spirit is poured out on Cornelius and his household (apparently they believed). An astonished Peter then says he should get baptized...AFTER receiving the Spirit (opposite the previous results of Peter's sermons). Corny simply believed, no work whatsoever, and received the Spirit (baptism with the Spirit; if I'm right, then he was also baptized BY the Spirit into Christ).
Another reason I believe that Corny was saved into the Body rather than into the body of kingdom believers is I Cor. 15:11, where Paul says:
Randy
"Your prayers and your alms have come up for a memorial before God." Acts 10:4
The messengers to Peter are sure to point this out in Acts 10:22. And Cornelius points this out to Peter in Acts 10:31.
Seems pretty important.
I think Cornelius is being honored (according to Gen. 12:3...God would bless those who bless the great nation) by God sending Peter to proclaim the gospel of God to him, allowing him to be the first Gentile to whom this message would be preached, and demonstrating a significant change in God's plans. The change is this: salvation of Gentiles was prophecied as something to take place during the kingdom, AFTER the 2nd coming. But the story of Cornelius demonstrates that God would begin doing that BEFORE the 2nd coming of the Son of Man.
Some notable things from this chapter (pertaining to the point of this thread):
- Peter says it is unlawful for a Jewish man to keep company with or go to one of another nation. If he was simply carrying out the Matt. 28 "Great Commission", then he wouldn't have said it was unlawful for him to be there. If he was preaching Body of Christ doctrine, no difference between Jew or Greek, then he wouldn't have said it was unlawful. Peter was being sent to do something that was contrary to the law and to the Matt. 28 Great Commission. Thank God for His wisdom in sending the vision to Peter, so that he could go with the men and actually "doubt nothing (Acts 10:20)" that he witnessed.
- Peter, consistent with what he knew and preached, told Cornelius that "whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him (Acts 10:35)".
I'll let others speak for themselves, but here's why I believe he was saved into the Body...
Peter's message was: believe in the risen Jesus, repent, and be baptized for the remission of sins. He preached the risen Jesus to Cornelius and that believing in Him would result in receiving remission of sins. To be consistent with his previous sermons, he would next be telling Cornelius to be baptized. But as soon as he preaches the risen Jesus and belief in His name to Cornelius, the Spirit is poured out on Cornelius and his household (apparently they believed). An astonished Peter then says he should get baptized...AFTER receiving the Spirit (opposite the previous results of Peter's sermons). Corny simply believed, no work whatsoever, and received the Spirit (baptism with the Spirit; if I'm right, then he was also baptized BY the Spirit into Christ).
Another reason I believe that Corny was saved into the Body rather than into the body of kingdom believers is I Cor. 15:11, where Paul says:
Therefore, whether it was I or they (Peter, James, the Twelve), so we preach and so you believed.
Thoughts?
Randy
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SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
:wave: Howdy Man O' Chicken,
I don't believe Corny was in the Body, just a few comments about it...
The gospel of Christ establishes one into the Body, I believe the evidence is that Peter preached the gospel of God. This is consistent with the passage you quoted
1 Cor 15
11: Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.
12: Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
Just a quick refresher, here's the gospel of God
Romans 1
1: Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
2: (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
3: Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
4: And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Also, concerning Corny's "conversion", James says this
Acts 15
14: Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
15: And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
16: After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
17: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
James is a minister of the circumcision and sees Corny's conversion as being in agreement with the prophetic plan for the earth, albeit "out of order".
I do believe, however, that a great door was opened in Acts 10 that allowed God fearing Gentiles to be accepted...which is to whom Paul was sent during Acts (Jews and God fearing Gentiles).
Surmise
Surmise
I have thought that the Word of God encompasses both the old and new testaments. The Gospel==good news, is the Word of God in Christ. So, I have thought that when Paul speaks he is often giving a sort of historical chronology of the word and it's unfolding implications. Chiefly, that God loves all of his people and wishes to have his message presented to all without prequalifying. I still believe that God's Word is God's Word whether it be intended for Kingdom peoples or Body of Christ peoples. Sometimes all of the intellectualizng of the Word takes me away from the Spirit of the Word and then I must regroup my thoughts. Probably a good thing! peace, bybee
Surmise
I have thought that the Word of God encompasses both the old and new testaments. The Gospel==good news, is the Word of God in Christ. So, I have thought that when Paul speaks he is often giving a sort of historical chronology of the word and it's unfolding implications. Chiefly, that God loves all of his people and wishes to have his message presented to all without prequalifying. I still believe that God's Word is God's Word whether it be intended for Kingdom peoples or Body of Christ peoples. Sometimes all of the intellectualizng of the Word takes me away from the Spirit of the Word and then I must regroup my thoughts. Probably a good thing! peace, bybee
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
The voltenator is correct.
Here's the gospel of God. Romans 1:1-4 (KJV), Acts 17:1-4(KJV)
Here's the gospel of Christ. 1 Cor 15:1-4 (KJV)
Ask Mr. Religion
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Have you converted to Mid-Acts disp?!:dead:
Hi, everyone.
I've been out of town this week and haven't been able to post (except for a couple of quick drive-by's on my phone). I'll catch up and make a couple of posts on this thread today in reply to STP's post about Corny then some other remarks.
Thanks for the posts. AMR, I've read a couple of those books several years back. Things That Differ was good; it's a basic intro to the subject. I'm not crazy about the way it's organized, but that's just a matter of preference. The content is still good. You'd probably like Baker's Dispensational Theology because it's written from a more scholarly perspective than the other books. It's basically a textbook.
Later,
Randy
I've been out of town this week and haven't been able to post (except for a couple of quick drive-by's on my phone). I'll catch up and make a couple of posts on this thread today in reply to STP's post about Corny then some other remarks.
Thanks for the posts. AMR, I've read a couple of those books several years back. Things That Differ was good; it's a basic intro to the subject. I'm not crazy about the way it's organized, but that's just a matter of preference. The content is still good. You'd probably like Baker's Dispensational Theology because it's written from a more scholarly perspective than the other books. It's basically a textbook.
Later,
Randy
Hey, Brother Oil Treatment.
I agree that Peter preached the gospel of God. He pretty much preaches the same thing he taught in Acts 2. That's what he knew to preach, so he wouldn't do anything differently. So I'm definitely with you there.
I also believe as you do that it's the gospel of Christ (I Cor. 15:1-4, e.g.) by which one is saved into the Body. So I'm aware that this creates a possible problem with my position. But then we have a similar issue with Saul's conversion. What did he believe? He sees and believes in the risen Jesus on the road to Damascus. The record doesn't show (please correct me if it's somewhere that I'm just not recalling) that it was preached to Saul that Christ died for his sins and the rose to life. It seems to me that Saul simply believed that Jesus was for real, that He died and that He was truly risen from the dead.
Could it be that the revelation of the gospel of Christ was part of the progressive revelation to Paul? Once it was revealed, then of course it was a requirement. But up to that point (and after the salvation of Saul - the "pattern"), one could be saved into the Body by believing that Jesus died and rose to life.
Is this idea killed by some passage I'm not considering?
The problems I have with someone being able to be saved under the kingdom program AFTER Paul's salvation are:
1) I Tim. 1:16
However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life.
The way in which the Lord showed mercy/longsuffering to Saul became a pattern for those who would believe after him. Saul simply believed. He wasn't required to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins, then receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit. Different than those before him, he simply believed. Corny simply believed Peter's message about the risen Jesus. And he and his household received the gift of the Spirit BEFORE being baptized (contrary to those in early Acts, at Pentecost, etc.).
2) A Potentially Endless Line of Kingdom Believers
If Corny became a kingdom believer, enduring to receive the promised kingdom, then anyone after him that would hear and believe that message would be the same. So there could potentially be an endless line of kingdom believers. Even though the temple would be destroyed later that century, the message didn't require a temple. The requirements were: believe in the risen Messiah, repent and be baptized. So technically, if Corny could have become a kingdom believer, then there could be people alive today still carrying around the gospel of the kingdom. Which would mean two gospel messages today. At least that's how I reason it out.
Right or wrong, did I make sense? Also, give me your take on the specifics of what Saul believed and/or when you see that his conversion into the Body took place.
Thanks, bro.
Randy
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Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:.” Romans 15:8
“Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof..” Mt. 21:43
“Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.” Luke 12:32
______________________________________________________________________________________________________
Survey Israels' program during "the gospels"and early Acts:: Daniel 2:44, Mt. 3:1,7, Mark 1:14,15
As result of the nation's rejection of the Messiah, according to prophesy, the stage was set for the "final stage" of the Prophetic Program, before the long awaited, and prophesied, kingdom of heaven upon the earth,over and over in the NC(of which Solomon was a type), at the time of the Lord's return when the 70th week of Daniel's time schedule will be fulfilled. During the "4 gospels", it was said to be "at hand.,".In the time to come, it will be "nigh at hand."(Luke 21:30.) When the time schedule is finally complete, it will finally "come":
.
"Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven." Mt.
6:10
"And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.." Luke 11:2
On earth: A King, a kingdom, ruled by the King, The Lord Jesus Christ, with the "little flock" as the head nation, not the tail, as priests, kings, ministers, servants....
The Acts 2 saints being ministered are the long prophesied faithful remnant of Israel. This remnant is contrasted with apostate nation of Israel, who will be purged out during the Lord's day of wrath, per the Prophetic Program(not the Mystery Program). The Lord's day of wrath is a running theme throughout the Holy Bible, and the nation of Israel was very close to having their program fulfilled when the Lord Jesus Christ arrived as Jehovahjireh(Gen. 22:14)-the Redeemer.who would provide.
And the inheritance of that election., the "little flock", who are called out in fulfillment of prophesy ?:
"Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all. And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there. And Sharon shall be a fold of flocks, and the valley of Achor a place for the herds to lie down in, for my people that have sought me." Is. 65:8-10
"Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth." Mt. 5:5
Again:
"Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof." Mt. 21:43 "Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom" (Luke 12:32).
"And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever. And thou, O tower of the flock, the strong hold of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem.' Micah 4:7,8
"Open ye the gates, that the righteous nation which keepeth the truth may enter in." Is. 26:2
In accorandance with the promises, the faithful remnant that was to inherit the promises would be prepared to endure the time of "Jacob's trouble"(Jer. 30:7, Gen. 32:7), in the absence of the Lord Jesus Christ(Mt. 24). As the "little flock", they were to receive certain benefits, "power from on high", the promised Holy Ghost baptism, performed by the Lord Jesus Christ, prior to the wrath of the baptism with fire arrived( Mt. 3:7,11). The inheritance that this kingdom, “little flock” church receives through the New Covenant is that which has long been promised to Israel, Study the covenants! The “New Testament Church," according to prophecy, is inextricably linked to a program that is tied to a piece of land-land, baby. I.e., that church is under the ministry of the circumcision whereby the “promises made unto the fathers”(Ro. 15:8) are being confirmed.
“And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. … As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the LORD..” Ez. 36:27,28,38
“Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD. And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.” Jer. 23:2,3
“Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.” Jer. 31:10
‘I will surely assemble, O Jacob, all of thee; I will surely gather the remnant of Israel; I will put them together as the sheep of Bozrah, as the flock in the midst of their fold: they shall make great noise by reason of the multitude of men.” Micah 2:12
“Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old. According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I shew unto him marvellous things.” Micah 7:14,15
“He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young..” Is. 40:11
“But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them. Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?” Is. 63:10,11
“As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.” Is. 59:21
“Give ear, O Shepherd of Israel, thou that leadest Joseph like a flock; thou that dwellest between the cherubims, shine forth.” Psalms 80:1
“And the LORD their God shall save them in that day as the flock of his people: for they shall be as the stones of a crown, lifted up as an ensign upon his land.” Zech. 9:16
“Mine anger was kindled against the shepherds, and I punished the goats: for the LORD of hosts hath visited his flock the house of Judah, and hath made them as his goodly horse in the battle.” Zech. 10:3
“And I will feed the flock of slaughter, even you, O poor of the flock. And I took unto me two staves; the one I called Beauty, and the other I called Bands; and I fed the flock.” Zech. 11:7
Thus, as we return “ the holy flock”, Ez. 36:38, in her “solemn feasts”, we understand partially what the feast of Pentecost represents, and its significance as pertaining to Israel’s prophetic program. As the Lord Jesus Christ departs and returns to the heavenly places, the faithful remnant, that is called by His name, will be the recipients of the NC ministry of the Holy Ghost, as they function as the “firstfruits” of the righteous, “born again” nation that will inherit the kingdom when it “comes” at the Son of Man’s(title of the Lord Jesus Christ used strictly with Israel)return at the end of the 70th week of Daniel. As that minister of the circumcision, the Lord Jesus Christ is dealing with the fulfillment of Israel’s program, as meticiously layed out, in detail, in the Law and the Prophets. As the Messiah, the Christ, He has a clear, unambiguous ministry to fulfill, and He does so perfectly, as the perfect God/man, as the perfect and righteous servant of the LORD God.
And thus, as He functioned as the redeemer, during Passover, thereby fulfilling His name to Israel as “Jehovahjireh:”(Gen. 22:14), likewise, so He would also begin to fulfill His name at Pentecost, and fulfill His role as the “Shepherd”- Jehovah Raah , as He provided for them(explaining selling everything in early Acts)as the “little flock”, the “nation”(“Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”-Mt. 21:43) would be baptized with fire and “endured” the coming “time of Jacob’s trouble”(notice, Jacob, not Israel-another thread). In connection with the special ministry of the Holy Ghost, they would be empowered, “power from on high”, to enable them to “endure” that time of tribulation. These are the things that concern their “election” as the “holy flock” in her solemn feasts, as they began to partake of the promised New Covenant ministry of the Holy Ghost,a foretaste of the spiritual blessing s awaiting them in the upcoming millennial kingdom, to the nation where they were no longer a part of the rebellious, apostate unbelieving element, but were called out(called out ones=”church”), and were now identified as “His people”, just as He promised to them all throughout the Prophets, the gospels, in connection with bringing them under the NC. However, unlike the rest the nation, that would be purged out in the Great Tribulation, “His servants” would be provided for at that time, and have the opportunity for various deliverances, during a time when the earth would find itself in the Day od the LORD God’s wrath, according to prophecy. Survey the Psalms that describes these events.
In accordance with the prophetic program, following the Lord Jesus Christ’s role/work as the Redeemer, in Psalms 22, the following Psalms 23, states, declares:
“The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want…. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.” Psalms 23:1,6
“Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all. And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there. And Sharon shall be a fold of flocks, and the valley of Achor a place for the herds to lie down in, for my people that have sought me. But ye are they that forsake the LORD, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that troop, and that furnish the drink offering unto that number. Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not. Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, my servants shall eat, but ye shall be hungry: behold, my servants shall drink, but ye shall be thirsty: behold, my servants shall rejoice, but ye shall be ashamed:” Is. 65:8-13
“Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof..” Mt. 21:43
“Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.” Luke 12:32
______________________________________________________________________________________________________
Survey Israels' program during "the gospels"and early Acts:: Daniel 2:44, Mt. 3:1,7, Mark 1:14,15
As result of the nation's rejection of the Messiah, according to prophesy, the stage was set for the "final stage" of the Prophetic Program, before the long awaited, and prophesied, kingdom of heaven upon the earth,over and over in the NC(of which Solomon was a type), at the time of the Lord's return when the 70th week of Daniel's time schedule will be fulfilled. During the "4 gospels", it was said to be "at hand.,".In the time to come, it will be "nigh at hand."(Luke 21:30.) When the time schedule is finally complete, it will finally "come":
.
"Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven." Mt.
6:10
"And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.." Luke 11:2
On earth: A King, a kingdom, ruled by the King, The Lord Jesus Christ, with the "little flock" as the head nation, not the tail, as priests, kings, ministers, servants....
The Acts 2 saints being ministered are the long prophesied faithful remnant of Israel. This remnant is contrasted with apostate nation of Israel, who will be purged out during the Lord's day of wrath, per the Prophetic Program(not the Mystery Program). The Lord's day of wrath is a running theme throughout the Holy Bible, and the nation of Israel was very close to having their program fulfilled when the Lord Jesus Christ arrived as Jehovahjireh(Gen. 22:14)-the Redeemer.who would provide.
And the inheritance of that election., the "little flock", who are called out in fulfillment of prophesy ?:
"Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all. And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there. And Sharon shall be a fold of flocks, and the valley of Achor a place for the herds to lie down in, for my people that have sought me." Is. 65:8-10
"Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth." Mt. 5:5
Again:
"Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof." Mt. 21:43 "Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom" (Luke 12:32).
"And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever. And thou, O tower of the flock, the strong hold of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem.' Micah 4:7,8
"Open ye the gates, that the righteous nation which keepeth the truth may enter in." Is. 26:2
In accorandance with the promises, the faithful remnant that was to inherit the promises would be prepared to endure the time of "Jacob's trouble"(Jer. 30:7, Gen. 32:7), in the absence of the Lord Jesus Christ(Mt. 24). As the "little flock", they were to receive certain benefits, "power from on high", the promised Holy Ghost baptism, performed by the Lord Jesus Christ, prior to the wrath of the baptism with fire arrived( Mt. 3:7,11). The inheritance that this kingdom, “little flock” church receives through the New Covenant is that which has long been promised to Israel, Study the covenants! The “New Testament Church," according to prophecy, is inextricably linked to a program that is tied to a piece of land-land, baby. I.e., that church is under the ministry of the circumcision whereby the “promises made unto the fathers”(Ro. 15:8) are being confirmed.
“And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. … As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the LORD..” Ez. 36:27,28,38
“Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD. And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.” Jer. 23:2,3
“Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.” Jer. 31:10
‘I will surely assemble, O Jacob, all of thee; I will surely gather the remnant of Israel; I will put them together as the sheep of Bozrah, as the flock in the midst of their fold: they shall make great noise by reason of the multitude of men.” Micah 2:12
“Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old. According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I shew unto him marvellous things.” Micah 7:14,15
“He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young..” Is. 40:11
“But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them. Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?” Is. 63:10,11
“As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.” Is. 59:21
“Give ear, O Shepherd of Israel, thou that leadest Joseph like a flock; thou that dwellest between the cherubims, shine forth.” Psalms 80:1
“And the LORD their God shall save them in that day as the flock of his people: for they shall be as the stones of a crown, lifted up as an ensign upon his land.” Zech. 9:16
“Mine anger was kindled against the shepherds, and I punished the goats: for the LORD of hosts hath visited his flock the house of Judah, and hath made them as his goodly horse in the battle.” Zech. 10:3
“And I will feed the flock of slaughter, even you, O poor of the flock. And I took unto me two staves; the one I called Beauty, and the other I called Bands; and I fed the flock.” Zech. 11:7
Thus, as we return “ the holy flock”, Ez. 36:38, in her “solemn feasts”, we understand partially what the feast of Pentecost represents, and its significance as pertaining to Israel’s prophetic program. As the Lord Jesus Christ departs and returns to the heavenly places, the faithful remnant, that is called by His name, will be the recipients of the NC ministry of the Holy Ghost, as they function as the “firstfruits” of the righteous, “born again” nation that will inherit the kingdom when it “comes” at the Son of Man’s(title of the Lord Jesus Christ used strictly with Israel)return at the end of the 70th week of Daniel. As that minister of the circumcision, the Lord Jesus Christ is dealing with the fulfillment of Israel’s program, as meticiously layed out, in detail, in the Law and the Prophets. As the Messiah, the Christ, He has a clear, unambiguous ministry to fulfill, and He does so perfectly, as the perfect God/man, as the perfect and righteous servant of the LORD God.
And thus, as He functioned as the redeemer, during Passover, thereby fulfilling His name to Israel as “Jehovahjireh:”(Gen. 22:14), likewise, so He would also begin to fulfill His name at Pentecost, and fulfill His role as the “Shepherd”- Jehovah Raah , as He provided for them(explaining selling everything in early Acts)as the “little flock”, the “nation”(“Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”-Mt. 21:43) would be baptized with fire and “endured” the coming “time of Jacob’s trouble”(notice, Jacob, not Israel-another thread). In connection with the special ministry of the Holy Ghost, they would be empowered, “power from on high”, to enable them to “endure” that time of tribulation. These are the things that concern their “election” as the “holy flock” in her solemn feasts, as they began to partake of the promised New Covenant ministry of the Holy Ghost,a foretaste of the spiritual blessing s awaiting them in the upcoming millennial kingdom, to the nation where they were no longer a part of the rebellious, apostate unbelieving element, but were called out(called out ones=”church”), and were now identified as “His people”, just as He promised to them all throughout the Prophets, the gospels, in connection with bringing them under the NC. However, unlike the rest the nation, that would be purged out in the Great Tribulation, “His servants” would be provided for at that time, and have the opportunity for various deliverances, during a time when the earth would find itself in the Day od the LORD God’s wrath, according to prophecy. Survey the Psalms that describes these events.
In accordance with the prophetic program, following the Lord Jesus Christ’s role/work as the Redeemer, in Psalms 22, the following Psalms 23, states, declares:
“The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want…. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.” Psalms 23:1,6
“Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all. And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there. And Sharon shall be a fold of flocks, and the valley of Achor a place for the herds to lie down in, for my people that have sought me. But ye are they that forsake the LORD, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that troop, and that furnish the drink offering unto that number. Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not. Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, my servants shall eat, but ye shall be hungry: behold, my servants shall drink, but ye shall be thirsty: behold, my servants shall rejoice, but ye shall be ashamed:” Is. 65:8-13
John,
Once again, great post with lots of biblical proof that squashes the traditional position on Pentecost. :up::up::up::up::up::up::up::up::up::up::up::up:
Randy
Once again, great post with lots of biblical proof that squashes the traditional position on Pentecost. :up::up::up::up::up::up::up::up::up::up::up::up:
Randy
Ask Mr. Religion
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No, but I am not opposed to actually fully reading all perspectives and searching the scriptures for truth. You should try it sometime. Have you finished Enyart's book, The Plot, yet? Three years and counting..... :squint:
AMR
I have not finished many books, including Open Theist ones, Calvinistic ones, etc. I am an impartial procrastinator.
MAT is not a significant issue on the academic or practical radar. What I did read was not earth shaking and too off to merit urgent attention for the moment (er 3 years and counting...has it been that long?!). There are simply so many better books I am engaged with on an ongoing basis. Perhaps I will take it to heaven when I have more down time?
Oops, I have been trapped. I think this is the thread I am not welcome on. Later dudes...I'm out of here.
All we ask is that you stop criticizing it, since you haven't read it.
I'll move forward, but I'm really looking forward to STP's reply and anyone else who has thoughts on Cornelius' (Corny's) conversion. The early chapters of Acts are very straightforward and simple to see what's going. The book only starts to get complicated once we get to Paul, because that's where God begins doing something a little different. So it can be difficult at times to understand what's going on.
So far in Acts, through at least 8 chapters, we have straightforward fulfillment of prophecy. Then we have the conversion of Saul in a way that is different than those before him. He is not required to repent and be baptized for the remission of his sins. He simply believes in the risen Jesus, and he is LATER baptized by Ananias. I assume this event is about a year after Jesus' earthly ministry is concluded. Here's why...
After Saul, we then have the conversion of a Gentile AHEAD OF SCHEDULE. In other words, while salvation was always prophecied to be available to Gentiles, the spoken/written plan was for that time to come during the kingdom reign of the Messiah. But in Acts 10, a Gentile believes the gospel and receives the Spirit, proving that God is beginning to turn to Gentiles ahead of schedule.
Acts 11 presents Peter going to Jerusalem and recounting his experiences. The shock expressed by the circumcision - "You went in to uncircumcised men and ate with them!" (Acts 11:3) - illustrates that Corny was totally unexpected. And the concession - "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life" (Acts 11:18) - shows that the manifestation of the Spirit (Corny and his people speaking in tongues) made the conversion undeniable and something that they were willing (if not relucant) to accept.
Acts 11:19 shows damning evidence against the classical dispensational position.
One must ask the question: If it was the Body of Christ - a spiritual entity in which there is no distinction between Jew or Gentile - that began at Pentecost, and the same gospel is preached there as is many years later in places like Colossae, then why are Gentiles being avoided in favor of Jews ONLY?
With the Twelve having been commissioned to go to those of Israel ONLY, not entering into the way of the Gentiles (Matt. 10:5-6), being told that they would not go through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man would come (Matt. 10:23), they would have surely taught that to their disciples (Matt. 28:20). So being forced to flee, even to a city of the Samaritans, would not be enough to dissuade these people from the duty. Their duty was to their brethren of Israel. So in Samaria and any other city in which they sought refuge from Saul, they went past the open markets, past the Gentile beggars, and past anywhere else where there were only Gentiles, and made straight for synagogues to preach to their Israelite brethren (again, Acts 11:19). Pretty odd thing to do if the classical dispensational position is true.
Chapter 11 closes with the growth of the church in Antioch, and then these Antioch believers being the first to begin supporting the Jerusalem believers. Recall that in expectation of the kingdom coming soon, and in keeping with the commandment of the Lord (Luke 12:33), they had sold all they had and dispersed among them all as needed (Acts 2:44-45; 4:32-37). So with a famine arising, and no kingdom having arrived yet, they are suffering from poverty. Paul will also carry on a ministry of support for the Jerusalem saints. We'll see that later.
Thoughts?
Randy
So far in Acts, through at least 8 chapters, we have straightforward fulfillment of prophecy. Then we have the conversion of Saul in a way that is different than those before him. He is not required to repent and be baptized for the remission of his sins. He simply believes in the risen Jesus, and he is LATER baptized by Ananias. I assume this event is about a year after Jesus' earthly ministry is concluded. Here's why...
He also spoke this parable: "A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came seeking fruit on it and found none. Then he said to the keeper of the vineyard, 'Look, for three years I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree and find none. Cut it down; why does it use up the ground?' But he answered and said to him, 'Sir, let it alone this year also, until I dig around it and fertilize it. And if it bears fruit, well. But if not, after that you can cut it down.'" Luke 13:6-9
Though this is a parable, it seems obvious that it parallels Jesus' earthly ministry. Following three years of "seeking fruit on the fig tree" (three years of Jesus seeking fruit in Israel), the plan is to fertilize/cultivate it for one more year and then cut it down if necessary. Since the first several chapters of Acts do not stray from the prophetic plan at all, then surely the shift to Saul shows that the one-year period had passed (perhaps with Jesus standing in judgment at the end of Acts 7, perhaps later, but surely by the time Saul is called out).
After Saul, we then have the conversion of a Gentile AHEAD OF SCHEDULE. In other words, while salvation was always prophecied to be available to Gentiles, the spoken/written plan was for that time to come during the kingdom reign of the Messiah. But in Acts 10, a Gentile believes the gospel and receives the Spirit, proving that God is beginning to turn to Gentiles ahead of schedule.
Acts 11 presents Peter going to Jerusalem and recounting his experiences. The shock expressed by the circumcision - "You went in to uncircumcised men and ate with them!" (Acts 11:3) - illustrates that Corny was totally unexpected. And the concession - "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life" (Acts 11:18) - shows that the manifestation of the Spirit (Corny and his people speaking in tongues) made the conversion undeniable and something that they were willing (if not relucant) to accept.
Acts 11:19 shows damning evidence against the classical dispensational position.
Now those who were scattered after the persecution that arose over Stephen traveled as far as Phoenicia, Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to no one but the Jews only.
So even though we've already seen that Philip preached in Samaria, followed by Peter and John, this passage is clear that they avoided Gentiles in those cities. The preached the word "to no one but the Jews only."
One must ask the question: If it was the Body of Christ - a spiritual entity in which there is no distinction between Jew or Gentile - that began at Pentecost, and the same gospel is preached there as is many years later in places like Colossae, then why are Gentiles being avoided in favor of Jews ONLY?
With the Twelve having been commissioned to go to those of Israel ONLY, not entering into the way of the Gentiles (Matt. 10:5-6), being told that they would not go through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man would come (Matt. 10:23), they would have surely taught that to their disciples (Matt. 28:20). So being forced to flee, even to a city of the Samaritans, would not be enough to dissuade these people from the duty. Their duty was to their brethren of Israel. So in Samaria and any other city in which they sought refuge from Saul, they went past the open markets, past the Gentile beggars, and past anywhere else where there were only Gentiles, and made straight for synagogues to preach to their Israelite brethren (again, Acts 11:19). Pretty odd thing to do if the classical dispensational position is true.
Chapter 11 closes with the growth of the church in Antioch, and then these Antioch believers being the first to begin supporting the Jerusalem believers. Recall that in expectation of the kingdom coming soon, and in keeping with the commandment of the Lord (Luke 12:33), they had sold all they had and dispersed among them all as needed (Acts 2:44-45; 4:32-37). So with a famine arising, and no kingdom having arrived yet, they are suffering from poverty. Paul will also carry on a ministry of support for the Jerusalem saints. We'll see that later.
Thoughts?
Randy
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Sorry it took so long to get to this, Randy! I'll try to address this first part now.
1 Cor 15
3: For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
So, we know that Paul received the same gospel that he preached.
1 Cor 15
2: By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
And, we know that this is the gospel by which we are saved.
Acts 13
26: Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.
38: Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
The forgiveness of sins comes with Paul's gospel, "the word of this salvation"
Acts 26
16: But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
17: Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
18: To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
19: Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
So, recalling the Acts 9 appearing, Paul is sent to Jews and God fearing Gentiles with the message that would bring forgiveness of sins.
Eph 1
6: To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7: In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
How did they get this forgiveness?
Eph 1
13: In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
So, I do agree that it isn't laid out on a silver platter for us that Paul believed the gospel of Christ in Acts 9, I think a pretty strong case can be made that he did.
:zoomin:
Zeke
Well-known member
Thats highly doubtfull seeing the uncircumcision were not yet included in the gospel. The Jews would have never excepted it without Peters witness to the fact that God was now calling out a people from the uncircumcision, which Saul wasn't preaching to at Acts nine.
Peter reactions to the vision shows the message up till that time, was still only being presented to the circumcision, so if Saul preached to any uncircumcision before that vision I would like to see where that happened.
Plus the statement of James at the council shows the Gentiles being preached to was all supported by the prophets.
Zeke.