Nang
TOL Subscriber
This Noahic Covenant was the Covenant of Grace. Genesis 6:8
ECT Faulty covenant?
- Thread starter Tambora
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This Noahic Covenant was the Covenant of Grace. Genesis 6:8
Interplanner
Well-known member
Notice how it never seems to matter to the apostles. Only the relation between old and new.
I should have been more specific with my question.
Was asking if there was any specific sacrificial ritual of the law that would be symbolic of a resurrection from the dead of the slain sacrifice.
Interplanner
Well-known member
Don't know, but there is Isaac. The thing is, in 1st century Judaism, it was understood from Ps 16 etc that the Person (Holy One) raised back up (it was not David) was getting a reward for having lived a perfect Holy life. Rom 4:25 and Acts 13 are saying this. The apostles are not nearly as concerned with 'how to prove the resurrection' as 'what does Christ's resurrection prove?' It proved He was rewarded for his toil. It is the reward David saw coming--the enthronement.
2P2P is spastic on this stuff. It has no idea what the apostles are doing with quotes from Ps 2, 16, 110. And countless texts in Isaiah. Because they all explode what 2P2P exists for.
Then the law couldn't have been your schoolmaster that pointed towards a resurrection from the dead.
We can see from the schoolmaster that a sinless substitute for the sins of the people was needed, and that it must be slain for blood because there was no forgiveness without the shedding of blood.
So we can see that the schoolmaster showed us that only a spotless substitute could pay the price for the forgiveness of sin.
But what good is being forgiven if you remain in the grave when you die?
Could we say that the old law was faulty in the respect that it did not foreshadow a resurrection through any of the rituals of the spotless sacrificial one?
Just a thought.
13 Behold, my servant shall deal wisely, he shall be exalted and lifted up, and shall be very high. 14 Like as many were astonished at thee (his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men), 15 so shall he sprinkle many nations; kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they understand.
1 Who hath believed our message? and to whom hath the arm of Jehovah been revealed? 2 For he grew up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He was despised, and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and as one from whom men hide their face he was despised; and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows; yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and Jehovah hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed, yet when he was afflicted he opened not his mouth; as a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and as a sheep that before its shearers is dumb, so he opened not his mouth. 8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away; and as for his generation, who among them considered that he was cut off out of the land of the living for the transgression of my people to whom the stroke was due? 9 And they made his grave with the wicked, and with a rich man in his death; although he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it pleased Jehovah to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of Jehovah shall prosper in his hand. 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by the knowledge of himself shall my righteous servant justify many; and he shall bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he poured out his soul unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors: yet he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Isaiah 52:13 - 53:13
This passage teaches
Messiah would be born of natural circumstances with no unusual characteristics.
Messiah's first coming would be marked with suffering.
Messiah's first coming would be rejected.
Messiah would undergo a legal trial and be condemned to death.
Messiah would be executed.
Messiah would be buried in a rich man's tomb.
Messiah would be resurrected.
All of the Messiahs suffering and death were to be substitutionary. He died so that we may have life. He died so that our sins could be removed from us. He died so that we may enter into a new relationship with God.
Messiah would bring justification to all who believe in Him.
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Nang
TOL Subscriber
It might be said the Old Covenant of Works/Law was limited, in that application of the New Covenant of Grace was necessary, in order that justified sinners (accomplished by Christ according to the Law) would receive knowledge and faith in the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Galatians 3:24-25 and Romans 1:16-17 would pertain to your question.
Interplanner
Well-known member
Ummm, the nation of Israel was humans.
It was the nation of Israel that both the old and new covenant were made to.
Interplanner
Well-known member
I realize it looks like that from the OT, but "I will make you a covenant for the people" God says to the Servant (Messiah). He is the representative man. The promises were to Abrham's Seed, meaning one person, not to seeds, meaning many people (Gal 3). 'Sacrifices and offering are not what you desire; but you have prepared a body for me' says Messiah.
We must realize how the NT is using the OT Christocentrically or we will march to the wrong drummer.
"It was the nation of Israel that both the old and new covenant were made to. " Again, the literalist bent makes Israel always to be the nation of Israel, that literal country at the time of Christ. The New Covenant was made with Israel, but not just the country called Israel and not with Old Covenant Israel. And Old Covenant Israel does not now exist as a people of God. Like the Greek ethnos, the Hebrew word goy,can mean peoples as well as nations.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Christ ("Israel") is the federal head and representative of His church, which consists of all the beneficiaries who are brought into the New Covenant, everlasting life, and the Kingdom promises.
This federalistic concept is not understood or accepted by dispies.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Indeed . . .
There are two "Adams." First the creature Adam, made of dust. Last, the Lord from heaven. Both representatives of all their offspring and kind.
First Adam the head of all natural men.
Second Adam (Jesus Christ), the head of all His spiritual body (church).
I Corinthians 15:45-57
Unfortunately, Paulinians are not Christ-centered at all, so none of this heavenly revelation is understood or accepted.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
The Old Covenant applies to all humankind, including all nations.
The New Covenant applies to only a remnant of humankind, out of all nations, justified by faith in Christ Jesus. One must abide "in Christ" in order to receive the New Covenant blessings of resurrection and everlasting life.
I Corinthians 15:45-57
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
"The people" is always Israel. Always.
Interplanner
Well-known member
That's true if 'applied' means 'benefited.' But the action was between God and Christ who are the only eternal parties who could have enacted it, Heb 13.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Made up.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Yes, that is what I meant.
It is my belief Hebrews 13:20 refers to the "Covenant of Redemption" established within the Godhead prior to creation. Both the old Covenant of Works/Law and the new Covenant of Grace, manifested.
Interplanner
Well-known member
In the stream of what he is saying in Hebrews, I can't agree. I don't think he takes a step back. He is still providing stark contrasts between old and new in 13. So he meant the 'new' which was really in existence before the other.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Made up. Ridiculous.