Get your brains out of neutral and read what you just wrote. A second chance versus a new creation are not the same thing.
Exploring Jesus's Appearance in His Kingdom
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Here is hoping some of the visitors who come to TOL will chime in sometime. Some posters complain that I write too much for people to read ... same and others say I don't share enough scripture to validate my beliefs. Same and some others say they don't care what I'm seeing and believing. I can't win. Well, I'm just going to write some thoughts here just because I love talking about my God and Savior. Hmmm. I'll begin with Colossians 1:13-15 ... Yes, I'm going to add my thoughts inside (...) so readers will know from where I'm coming.
13 (God the Spirit) who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 (His Son) in whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 (His Son) who is the image of the invisible God, (the image)the firstborn of every creature ...
The truths seen in these verses according to other scripture are these:
1.) God the Spirit is the invisible God ... the omnipresent, infinite, only one ever having immortality.
2.) It was God the Spirit who provided the way for the saints to be translated into the kingdom of his dear Son.
3.) Jesus was the Son of God who was sent and Jesus bore the image chosen by the invisible God.
4.) The image that was the firstborn of every creature. It is obvious from Gen 1, 2, 3 the God the Spirit already had his image before he created humanity for he shared that image with Adam. It is true that God the Spirit had in his mind to send His WORD into the world as the Messiah our Lord Jesus God's Promised Son.
5.) Since John 1 tells us that the WORD was God and was with God and that Jesus was the promised Son of God in human form as an Emmanuel (God among humanity), then we know that Jesus, as the WORD of God and as Emmanuel, was not created! For God is eternal.
So what was the first creature created before any other creature???
Well, verse 15 tells the answer to this question: The image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature.
Now, which is it that seems to be correct:
Jesus was the first born creature or that he was God?
Or the image chosen by the invisible God was the first creature he created and he did it for himself?
Of course I say it was the image God chose. A walking talking image to represent HIM as an Emmanuel within creation.
Exodus 33: 18-23 Moses saw this image in all its goodness and glory and had to be shielded due to the danger of its essence to mortals.
Exodus 24:9-11Twenty four men of Israel saw God's body of heaven clearly but with a lesser glory for they were able to eat and drink in his presence unharmed.
I Timothy 6:14-16 One day our Risen Lord Jesus will introduce us Saints to The invisible God's original chosen image for himself - the body of heaven.
14 That thou (oh men of God) keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
15 Which in his times he shall show who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16 who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no (mortal) man can approach unto; (the light) whom no man hath seen, nor can see; to whom be honor and power everlasting. Amen.
The WORD of God who was God came into the world as his own begotten Son and the Son was or rather bore the image of that image but no one understood ... for the glory of God's image was hidden by flesh.
God did not always nor only appear with flesh as Lord Jesus ... but he appeared previously to many individuals and prophets. If you study those examples you will find the invisible God could manipulate the level of glory which the image presented ... from Safe to dangerous to men.
13 (God the Spirit) who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 (His Son) in whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 (His Son) who is the image of the invisible God, (the image)the firstborn of every creature ...
The truths seen in these verses according to other scripture are these:
1.) God the Spirit is the invisible God ... the omnipresent, infinite, only one ever having immortality.
2.) It was God the Spirit who provided the way for the saints to be translated into the kingdom of his dear Son.
3.) Jesus was the Son of God who was sent and Jesus bore the image chosen by the invisible God.
4.) The image that was the firstborn of every creature. It is obvious from Gen 1, 2, 3 the God the Spirit already had his image before he created humanity for he shared that image with Adam. It is true that God the Spirit had in his mind to send His WORD into the world as the Messiah our Lord Jesus God's Promised Son.
5.) Since John 1 tells us that the WORD was God and was with God and that Jesus was the promised Son of God in human form as an Emmanuel (God among humanity), then we know that Jesus, as the WORD of God and as Emmanuel, was not created! For God is eternal.
So what was the first creature created before any other creature???
Well, verse 15 tells the answer to this question: The image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature.
Now, which is it that seems to be correct:
Jesus was the first born creature or that he was God?
Or the image chosen by the invisible God was the first creature he created and he did it for himself?
Of course I say it was the image God chose. A walking talking image to represent HIM as an Emmanuel within creation.
Exodus 33: 18-23 Moses saw this image in all its goodness and glory and had to be shielded due to the danger of its essence to mortals.
Exodus 24:9-11Twenty four men of Israel saw God's body of heaven clearly but with a lesser glory for they were able to eat and drink in his presence unharmed.
I Timothy 6:14-16 One day our Risen Lord Jesus will introduce us Saints to The invisible God's original chosen image for himself - the body of heaven.
14 That thou (oh men of God) keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
15 Which in his times he shall show who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16 who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no (mortal) man can approach unto; (the light) whom no man hath seen, nor can see; to whom be honor and power everlasting. Amen.
The WORD of God who was God came into the world as his own begotten Son and the Son was or rather bore the image of that image but no one understood ... for the glory of God's image was hidden by flesh.
God did not always nor only appear with flesh as Lord Jesus ... but he appeared previously to many individuals and prophets. If you study those examples you will find the invisible God could manipulate the level of glory which the image presented ... from Safe to dangerous to men.
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Hi Nick.
Being born again has to do with a process. It begins with our receiving the Holy Spirit which happens when we 'give our lives to our Lord Jesus' for he is the way we receive the Spirit in us. Once we have the Spirit in us here on earth we mortals are formed into the likeness of Christ. The Holy Spirit (Christ in us) forms us into the likeness of Christ by teaching us, guiding us, helping us through times of troubles ... equipping us ... holding us securely ....Until we are literally born a second time.
Our first birth was of the water of the womb (earthly water) The second birth is of the Spirit in us given by Christ our God and Savior.
If I were to try to give a worldly example to explain the process I perceive... I would say that the Spirit in us is like our conception. A stage of pre-natal development. A time believers go through while still in the womb of earth.
Now, when we go to be with Christ and are the 'saints' in robes of white' perhaps that would be our teenage years. Just like impatient teenagers the saints once asked our Risen Lord, "How long must we wait?"
Wait for what? God to finish his work and put enemies under the feet of our Lord...
For there is another time coming in their future when the saints will even take off the saintly robes of white and will receive a new body.
I Corinthians 15 37-41
37 And that which thou (mortal mankind) sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but (it may rot and) bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or some other grain:
38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed (sown) his own (unique) body.
39 (Just like in this mortal world) All flesh is not the same flesh; but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also (in this world) celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It (the earthly body) is sown in corruption; (BUT) it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam (of the Garden) was made a living soul; the last Adam (our Lord Jesus) was made a quickening spirit.
First humans were born earthy ... but then after the example of Jesus who was begotten of Mary ... he was born earthly but then raise spiritually ... as an example for the WAY we would follow him into his kingdom.
So will we will follow his example ... first born earthly then born again spiritually. Christ was the WAY - the quickening Spirit to lead to our second birth.
Enough already ...
If you're trying to say something, just come out and say it already. Don't beat around tbe bush.
8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
But you say....
I agree with verse 8. That is because the Spirit is invisible.
John 3 doesn't say invisible. And that doesn't help the cause of claiming to be born again.
26 And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, “Peace to you!” 27 Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”
31 Then their eyes were opened and they knew Him; and He vanished from their sight.
8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
It says you don't know where someone came from or where they went when they are born again. It is right there in verse 8, and it is demonstrated after his resurrection.
Here is a verse you, Nick M, shared: 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.
The verse is talking about The Spirit that Christ gives believers to secure them unto the end and accomplishes their being born again.
I know the exact word invisible is not literally spelled out within the sentence ... but this phrase implies no one can see it. "cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes"
You know, like, how we can't see the wind. We can only see and feel the reactions it causes as it comes and goes.
I think we can't see the Spirit any better than we can see the wind. BUT :
1.) as with the wind I believe the Spirit is the living God in us by measure ... and we can hear his still small voice at times ... and we can become aware that HE is in us.
2.) It is the Spirit of God whose power holds us unto the completion of our journey to be born again into the eternal kingdom of our Lord ...
I believe I am already conceived in Christ ... and that he has gone to prepare a place for all followers to dwell with him some day. Until that time I am in him and he is in me ... a subject of his manifested kingdom when the time come.
In fact, his kingdom has come and the fact that I am in him and he is in me ... I am already a child of his kingdom.
The verse is talking about The Spirit that Christ gives believers to secure them unto the end and accomplishes their being born again.
I know the exact word invisible is not literally spelled out within the sentence ... but this phrase implies no one can see it. "cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes"
You know, like, how we can't see the wind. We can only see and feel the reactions it causes as it comes and goes.
I think we can't see the Spirit any better than we can see the wind. BUT :
1.) as with the wind I believe the Spirit is the living God in us by measure ... and we can hear his still small voice at times ... and we can become aware that HE is in us.
2.) It is the Spirit of God whose power holds us unto the completion of our journey to be born again into the eternal kingdom of our Lord ...
I believe I am already conceived in Christ ... and that he has gone to prepare a place for all followers to dwell with him some day. Until that time I am in him and he is in me ... a subject of his manifested kingdom when the time come.
In fact, his kingdom has come and the fact that I am in him and he is in me ... I am already a child of his kingdom.
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I'd like to get back to the topic of the appearance of God's chosen image. Perhaps if I make a list readers can easily select at statement with which they agree or one with which they disagree. My thoughts added inside (...)
1.) There is only ONE visible image selected by God to represent all goodness of who he is.
Gen. 1:26-27 And God said, Let us make man in our image (one image), after our likeness: ... So God created man in his own image, in the image (singular) of God created he (God) him (mankind); male and female created he them.
2.) That ONE visible image God manifested for himself represented the ONE invisible Spiritual God as a male to be seen within creation.
Gen. 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.
We know God's image was of a male because he shared the likeness of his image with Adam and Adam at first had only a male form. Female came later.
3.) Now for a more detailed description of Adam and the LORD's appearance. First they look alike! While God had a super natural presence, Adam was lacking the super-natural-glory of the LORD's.
Gen. 2:6-7 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils ...
4.) Jumping to the point: The LORD's presence was that of a man ... and he had blue eyes, light colored but ruddy skin, and most likely some shade of red hair! What makes me suggest these?
First, I know for a fact that The LORD visited Abram. Now, I have unique beliefs regarding who all three of the Lords were but for the moment I'll just say: I know Abram saw the presence of The LORD.
The story goes - The three were on a mission to go into town and stay until night to check out the sins of the people. The LORD stayed to talk with Abram face to face ... BUT later he also went into town and stayed in the street to look around until a mob of angry men took hold of him and went to Lot's door to get the other two Lords who they knew were this fellow they had pressed against Lot's door.
The main point here is that these are the THREE who went into Sodom and who later destroyed Sodom ... Now, fast forward to other scripture which recounts some of the events of that day in Sodom. Just two verses sums up that visit and that destruction.
Lam. 4 mentions a lot things about the sins of Israel and their punishments, but suddenly God mentions the day Sodom and G were destroyed? He compares Sodom's quick and horrible punishment with the worse punishment Israel would receive for her sins.
Lam. 4:6-7
6 For the punishment of the iniquity of the daughter of my people is greater than the punishment of the sin of Sodom, that was overthrown as in a moment, and no hands stayed upon her.
(IOW, Sodom's punishment was quick and over ... but God was to allow hands to stay for a long period upon Israel ... )
7 Her (Sodom's) Nazarites were ...
(Question: Now who would you say were the Nazarites of Sodom? Was it Lot, his wife and two daughters? Were they the mob in the street rough housing That Fellow at Lot's door? Or were they The LORD and the two Lords with him? I suggest the last choice! Here is the physical description of the unharmed Lords that day in Sodom.)
continued...
Her (Sodom's) Nazarites (plural) were purer than snow, they were whiter than milk, they were more ruddy in body than rubies, their polishing was of sapphire. (most likely blue)
Now before I discuss what I think about their appearance - why do I think the above describes the looks of their bodies? Well, because the next verse describes the appearance of human bodies that have suffered affliction. Either those of Sodom ... or perhaps the bodies in the future that will be starved and burned in ovens ????? Well, the point is that God was describing the appearance of bodies!!!
8 Their visage is blacker than a coal; they are not known in the streets: their skin cleaveth to their bones; it is withered, it is become like a stick.
So what was the appearance of THE NAZARITES of Sodom?
I suggest these three were pure in behavior ... with white skin that had a ruddy tent ... sort of like a redhead from Ireland or some in my family. White but when embarrassed or angry that ruddy complexion would show through. Now, what about a person might shine as if if were polished? I suggest twinkling eyes. Since blue and pink are the most common color of sapphires ... I suggest blue eyes.
Now, am I going to swear what I think is the truth? NO, but I'm thinking it MAY be correct. Guess I'll wait and see exactly what The LORD and his two friends looked like that day.
1.) There is only ONE visible image selected by God to represent all goodness of who he is.
Gen. 1:26-27 And God said, Let us make man in our image (one image), after our likeness: ... So God created man in his own image, in the image (singular) of God created he (God) him (mankind); male and female created he them.
2.) That ONE visible image God manifested for himself represented the ONE invisible Spiritual God as a male to be seen within creation.
Gen. 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.
We know God's image was of a male because he shared the likeness of his image with Adam and Adam at first had only a male form. Female came later.
3.) Now for a more detailed description of Adam and the LORD's appearance. First they look alike! While God had a super natural presence, Adam was lacking the super-natural-glory of the LORD's.
Gen. 2:6-7 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils ...
4.) Jumping to the point: The LORD's presence was that of a man ... and he had blue eyes, light colored but ruddy skin, and most likely some shade of red hair! What makes me suggest these?
First, I know for a fact that The LORD visited Abram. Now, I have unique beliefs regarding who all three of the Lords were but for the moment I'll just say: I know Abram saw the presence of The LORD.
The story goes - The three were on a mission to go into town and stay until night to check out the sins of the people. The LORD stayed to talk with Abram face to face ... BUT later he also went into town and stayed in the street to look around until a mob of angry men took hold of him and went to Lot's door to get the other two Lords who they knew were this fellow they had pressed against Lot's door.
The main point here is that these are the THREE who went into Sodom and who later destroyed Sodom ... Now, fast forward to other scripture which recounts some of the events of that day in Sodom. Just two verses sums up that visit and that destruction.
Lam. 4 mentions a lot things about the sins of Israel and their punishments, but suddenly God mentions the day Sodom and G were destroyed? He compares Sodom's quick and horrible punishment with the worse punishment Israel would receive for her sins.
Lam. 4:6-7
6 For the punishment of the iniquity of the daughter of my people is greater than the punishment of the sin of Sodom, that was overthrown as in a moment, and no hands stayed upon her.
(IOW, Sodom's punishment was quick and over ... but God was to allow hands to stay for a long period upon Israel ... )
7 Her (Sodom's) Nazarites were ...
(Question: Now who would you say were the Nazarites of Sodom? Was it Lot, his wife and two daughters? Were they the mob in the street rough housing That Fellow at Lot's door? Or were they The LORD and the two Lords with him? I suggest the last choice! Here is the physical description of the unharmed Lords that day in Sodom.)
continued...
Her (Sodom's) Nazarites (plural) were purer than snow, they were whiter than milk, they were more ruddy in body than rubies, their polishing was of sapphire. (most likely blue)
Now before I discuss what I think about their appearance - why do I think the above describes the looks of their bodies? Well, because the next verse describes the appearance of human bodies that have suffered affliction. Either those of Sodom ... or perhaps the bodies in the future that will be starved and burned in ovens ????? Well, the point is that God was describing the appearance of bodies!!!
8 Their visage is blacker than a coal; they are not known in the streets: their skin cleaveth to their bones; it is withered, it is become like a stick.
So what was the appearance of THE NAZARITES of Sodom?
I suggest these three were pure in behavior ... with white skin that had a ruddy tent ... sort of like a redhead from Ireland or some in my family. White but when embarrassed or angry that ruddy complexion would show through. Now, what about a person might shine as if if were polished? I suggest twinkling eyes. Since blue and pink are the most common color of sapphires ... I suggest blue eyes.
Now, am I going to swear what I think is the truth? NO, but I'm thinking it MAY be correct. Guess I'll wait and see exactly what The LORD and his two friends looked like that day.