evil capitalism

[aCultureWarrior]

Connie writes:

While I understand that cross dressing is a huge part of the culture that you defend barbarian, and that giving female names to those cross dressers is quite common amongst you liberals, I'm a Christian male, so you can refer to me as "aCW".

Dance with the Devil
The good news in 1929 for young MIT chemical engineer Fred Koch was that he had successfully developed a superior oil refinement process with a business partner. The bad news is that he had a bitter lesson to learn about his laissez-faire competitors when virtually every major US oil company gobsmacked him with 15 year’s worth of patent infringement lawsuits. The net effect was that one cease-and-desist order after another was issued from the judge’s bench, and until the legal process could sort itself out, Fred Koch was – for all practical purposes – aced out of the US oil market. And the bills still needed to be paid.

So what to do? Fortunately, the Unseen Hand pointed the way to Soviet Moscow, where totalitarian dictator Josef Stalin was rolling out his first Five Year Plan for sweeping industrialization. And he was especially interested in oil engineers.

“We are the world’s greatest market, and we are prepared to order a large amount of goods and pay for them,” – Josef Stalin, 1932

Fred Koch answered the call, and signed a $5 million deal in 1929 to build 15 refineries in the Soviet Socialistic Republic, thus providing a substantial wet kiss to the cause of worldwide socialism everywhere. Koch and his partner provided equipment and oversaw construction and installation, and quickly became Comrade Stalin’s number one go-to refinery contractor.

Koch Daddy Fred returned to Wichita, KS in 1933 having made $500,000 in profits through his business dealings with Josef Stalin.
http://investmentwatchblog.com/the-kochstalin-connection-where-their-wealth-started/

Durn liberals! Libertarians

Fixed that for ya.

Of course doing business deals with mass murdering communists like Joe Stalin isn't part of the Judeo-Christian based free enterprise system, it's selling out your fellow human beings in the name of greed, just like liberal Bill Gates is doing in China (this is where the barbarian pulls up his liberal links showing that China is a free enterprise government and that human rights violations never occur under the iron fisted mass murdering communists that he adores so very much).

 

[The Barbarian]

(Connie thinks "liberals" are the ones doing business with communist regimes)

(Koch brothers got rich because daddy supported the Soviet Union's oil business)

Of course doing business deals with mass murdering communists like Joe Stalin isn't part of the Judeo-Christian based free enterprise system, it's selling out your fellow human beings in the name of greed,

So the ultraconservatives are about "selling out your fellow human beings."

Interesting that you'd admit it.

(this is where the barbarian pulls up his liberal links showing that China is a free enterprise government

Capitalism isn't necessarily "free enterprise." China has private enterprise to the point that businessmen often run the local party apparatus. But it's far from free. It's closer to the Robber Baron era in the US, with monopolies, oppression of labor, and rampant corruption.

and that human rights violations never occur under the iron fisted mass murdering communists that he adores so very much).

Wouldn't be a Connie post without one blatant lie, would it? You're a little embarrassed to be supporting those who helped Stalin run his dictatorship. Projecting your love of the state on others isn't going to cover for you.

The state is your new god. And in spite of your denials, it doesn't really matter to you, which state.

 

[jgarden]

Hey, capitalism unchecked is not a good thing. But capitalism per se is far from the greatest "evil" in the world, if you can call it evil at all.

I love the greedy capitalists. They provide JOBS. They give us all something to wear, something to drive, something to call our friends on (phones), and etc. They invent new things to make our lives easier (but hopefully our lives don't get so easy we forget we need God).

It is the sexually immoral that are the biggest problem in America.

I would rather deal with a greedy person who wants more money than someone who wants to use the opposite sex for gratification, watches porn, votes against pro life candidates...

The Rich Young Ruler (Mark 10:17-25)

17 As He was setting out on a journey, a man ran up to Him and knelt before Him, and asked Him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
18 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.
19 You know the commandments, ‘Do not murder, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.’”
20 And he said to Him, “Teacher, I have kept all these things from my youth up.”
21 Looking at him, Jesus felt a love for him and said to him, “One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
22 But at these words [a]he was saddened, and he went away grieving, for he was one who owned much property.
23 And Jesus, looking around, *said to His disciples, “How hard it will be for those who are wealthy to enter the kingdom of God!”
24 The disciples were amazed at His words. But Jesus *answered again and said to them, “Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God!
25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

Either "republicanchick" doesn't know her Bible or she just doesn't take Jesus' encounter with "The Rich Young Ruler" seriously.

"The Rich Young Ruler" appears 3X in the New Testament (Matthew 19:16–30, Mark 10:17-31, Luke 18:18–30) and Jesus is quite explicit as to where those "greedy capitalists" that "republicanchick" loves will be spending Eternity!

Love of wealth and possessions is just as immoral as "someone who wants to use the opposite sex for gratification, watches porn, votes against pro life candidates... "

In fact "The Young Ruler" had lived a very moral life and had kept all the Commandments ( ‘Do not murder, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.’” .....) and the love of wealth and possessions appears to be his only vice.

 

[csuguy]

Greed is a subjective word, as it means different things to different people. For instance, the person that works hard (and honestly) to accumulate wealth obviously in your mind is greedy, but you have no idea why he's accumulating that wealth.

Besides, if this person is helping others through his honest business practices (employing others), how can his greed (if he truly is) be "bad"?

Greed, by definition, is an excessive desire, esp. for wealth or possessions. Anyone who devotes themselves to becoming rich to the point that they are willing to sin to acquire/keep it - that is what I consider excessive. In the event they become rich, if they withold their excessive wealth from those in need - the love of God is not in such a person.

What is bad about Greed is the obsession for money - of making the desire for wealth more important in one's life than God's will and one's fellow man. It is a matter of what is in one's heart, of who one serves. Any 'good' that accidentally happens as a result of Greed is irrelevant - for that is not its aim. Greed is self-serving and will inevitably harm others.

You're speaking of the Judeo-Christian based free enterprise system of government (as I'd shown in my first post, capital is used by all nations to create businesses, so those nations by your definition would be "capitalists").

Free enterprise (with some restraints put on it by a moral government) is inherently good, because it gives people an "incentive" and "motivates" them to work hard and honest.

Capitalism is not Judeo-Christian - it completely goes against God's teachings and commands. The issue here is not that some form of capital is being used - but the underlying economic philosophy that upholds Greed and serving one's own interests over God and one's fellow man.

Attempting to restrain sin with moral laws won't make the Greedy person or business moral; it simply means that they need to break the law to fulfill their desires more easily. Morality becomes an economic decision in such a system, with risks and expected gains. As a Christian - you should understand the significance of what is in one's heart. Accidentally doing good in the pursuit of sinful desires, and/or by sinful means, is without merit. You are robbing Peter to pay Paul.

If you were familiar with the scriptures you would know that that was the weakness of the Law in the OT: it doesn't matter how holy and good the law is if the people are corrupt. The result is condemnation, not righteousness.

It all depends on the way that money is accumulated (as you pointed out above and I put in bold). Let's say that money was given to a business owner by a federal grant, i.e. taxpayer dollars, that would literally be robbing Peter (the taxpayer) to pay Paul (the recipient of the grant), and what does God saying about stealing?

That's not stealing; taxes, to a point, are a good and necessary thing that allows the government to do its job. Its about contributing back to society, in exchange for all the benefits (including wealth) that one acquires through being part of society.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

(Connie thinks "liberals" are the ones doing business with communist regimes)

(the barbarian just can't get over his cross dressing fantasies).

(Koch brothers got rich because daddy supported the Soviet Union's oil business)

(Doing business with mass murdering atheists isn't a conservative value).


Quote:
Of course doing business deals with mass murdering communists like Joe Stalin isn't part of the Judeo-Christian based free enterprise system, it's selling out your fellow human beings in the name of greed,

So the ultraconservatives are about "selling out your fellow human beings."

Interesting that you'd admit it.

If you say so, it must be true.


Quote:
(this is where the barbarian pulls up his liberal links showing that China is a free enterprise government

Capitalism isn't necessarily "free enterprise." China has private enterprise to the point that businessmen often run the local party apparatus. But it's far from free. It's closer to the Robber Baron era in the US, with monopolies, oppression of labor, and rampant corruption.

Pay attention, I said in earlier posts that all countries have capital. That being said: the free enterprise system of government (with moral restraints), which the US had at one time, was the best the world had ever seen.

And then your buddy Obama came along.

Quote:
and that human rights violations never occur under the iron fisted mass murdering communists that he adores so very much).

Wouldn't be a Connie post without one blatant lie, would it?

(Boy, his cross dressing fantasies are really creepy today).

You're a little embarrassed to be supporting those who helped Stalin run his dictatorship. Projecting your love of the state on others isn't going to cover for you.

The state is your new god. And in spite of your denials, it doesn't really matter to you, which state.

Whatever you say barbarian.

On that note, I'll let you get back to your cross dressing fantasies.

 

[PureX]

Hey, capitalism unchecked is not a good thing. But capitalism per se is far from the greatest "evil" in the world, if you can call it evil at all.

The term "capitalism" is not referring to capital investment (which is a perfectly good and necessary aspect of any healthy economy), it's referring to an economic system that is focussed almost exclusively on maximizing the profits returned on capital investment. What that means is that it's referring to an economic system that has given nearly all economic power and control over to the capital investor. And it's that aspect of the economic system we call "capitalism" that makes it so unbalanced and socially toxic, which is why some people refer to it as being "evil".

It's not capital investment that is being called evil, it "capitalism", which is a whole system of economics that is heavily skewed in favor of the investor, to the detriment of everyone else involved in the system.

I love the greedy capitalists. They provide JOBS. They give us all something to wear, something to drive, something to call our friends on (phones), and etc. They invent new things to make our lives easier (but hopefully our lives don't get so easy we forget we need God).

This is a very ignorant and sad view of capitalism and capitalists. Clearly you have no idea how the system actually operates.

Capitalists make nothing. They create nothing. They are, in fact, parasites on the economy. They use their money to capture money from the system, which they then use to capture more money from the system. We allow this because the economy needs investment capital to operate, but if we do not limit the parasitic nature of investment capital, it will eventually completely destabilize the economy by piling up too much monetary wealth in the hands of fewer and fewer capital investors (as it has done in our economy). And these investors do not have the well-being of the society as their goal. Nor were they elected by the society that rule, economically. And yet as they accumulate more and more of the nation's (society's) wealth, they become the decision-makes for everyone else in the capitalist system.

What that means is that people who's primary motive is greed are making nearly all of our society's decisions based on that motive. And that's a very poor and dangerous way for any society to operate.

It is the sexually immoral that are the biggest problem in America.

That's exactly what the capitalists want you to believe, and it's exactly what they are paying the media and the politicians a lot of money to keep telling us. And they are doing it because they don't want us to see that it's the inherent imbalance of power, and the rewarding of decisions made based on greed, that is destroying our society and economy.

 

[OCTOBER23]

EVIL REPUBLICANS JUST WANT TO FILL THEIR POCKETS WITH STUFF.

 

[chrysostom]

capitalism creates jobs
so
vote for the democrats
if
you want someone to take care of you
and
vote for the republicans
if
you want a job
and
want to take care of yourself

 

[PureX]

capitalism creates jobs

Capitalism eliminates jobs whenever it can because paying for labor conflicts with the goal of maximizing the profit returned on investment capital.

Does your boss want to pay you more, or less? Will he pay you anything at all, if he can find a way not to? No. Why? Because his one and only goal in a capitalist economic system is to maximize the profit returned on the money invested in the business. And if he does not do that, he won't have a job, either.

You need to learn the difference between capital investment, and capitalism: which is an economic system with the sole intention of maximizing of profit returned on capital investment.

 

[Quincy]

Only an idiot hoards money and then complains that a government made up of and elected by everyone else, decides to start taking it. They waste millions of dollars trying to stop it through political campaigns, when they could boost the workforce's standard of living with that money. They'd still have more than other people, yet other people would be happy. Problem solved.

How stupid do you have to be to not realize that you can fix your own problems?

 

[chrysostom]

Capitalism eliminates jobs whenever

the unions drive up the labor rates
and
the government mandates better health care

 

[PureX]

the unions drive up the labor rates
and
the government mandates better health care

And God bless them both for it! Because the capitalists will pay you nothing at all if they can get away with it, and then let you die in the street.

 

[Quincy]

capitalism creates jobs
so
vote for the democrats
if
you want someone to take care of you
and
vote for the republicans
if
you want a job
and
want to take care of yourself

A job isn't always gainful employment. If employers paid folks enough to have a decent, happy life then they wouldn't go and vote for politicians who promise handouts from taxes. More taxes on the person paying your salary means he/she doesn't have enough money left over to continue paying you well.

Since you have a large amount of folks out there making less than $20k a year while the suits in their company make millions, if a politician comes along and promises to tax the bad rich guys and then give that money to those workers, of course they're going to vote for the person.

 

[PureX]

A job isn't always gainful employment. If employers paid folks enough to have a decent, happy life then they wouldn't go and vote for politicians who promise handouts from taxes. More taxes on the person paying your salary means he/she doesn't have enough money left over to continue paying you well.

Since you have a large amount of folks out there making less than $20k a year while the suits in their company make millions, if a politician comes along and promises to tax the bad rich guys and then give that money to those workers, of course they're going to vote for the person.

The real problem is that in a capitalist system, all the money and power ends up under the control of the capital investors, so they are making all the decisions for society. And those decision are based only on improving their own well-being, not of securing or improving the well-being of the society as a whole. So that it's ultimately a self-destructive system. The capitalists depend on the whole of society to make them more and more wealthy, but as they become more and more wealthy, they are destroying the society they control. And it's an exponential effect, so that the more unbalanced and unstable the system becomes, the more unstable it will become.

But it's also important that we understand that commerce is not the answer to all our social problems and needs. We need to establish other system that can deal with those social issues that commerce simply cannot. These are issue like the rule of law, collective infrastructure, emergency services, environmental protection, national security, and general education and health care. These are very important aspects of any modern healthy society that simply cannot be established and maintained by any system of commerce. We need to establish governments, and collect taxes, to perform these basic and essential functions.

In moderately socialist nations, every citizen receives good, quality health care all their lives, a basic AND advanced education in the field of their choosing, and a guaranteed livable pension upon their retirement. And they still get excellent infrastructure and social services. They pay higher taxes than we do, but they are not paying that much more than we are, and they are getting so much more for it!

Why? Because they understand that commercial business cannot provide these fundamental services to their people inexpensively, efficiently, or equitably. So they have set up their governments to take care of these social needs, which then frees up their commercial businesses to create products and services for profit.

There is no doubt that this is and will be the next evolutionary step in human socio-political history. The era of Darwinist (capitalist) economics is coming to an end. But of course it won't end without a struggle. And as anyone would expect, it will be the capitalists and the conservative ideologues that will fight to hold onto the old ways as long as they can. Good, bad, or indifferent. Because that's just who they are.

 

[republicanchick]

So Tiger Woods is better than....wait. Never mind.

he is the worst of both worlds

 

[republicanchick]

In the context that you're using "capitalist" in, I assume that you're speaking of the Judeo-Christian based free enterprise system of government.

All countries are "capitalist", as a capitalist is someone who uses...

capital.

[/url]

ok, whatever:hammer:

 

[republicanchick]

.

One who loves money and serves it cannot serve God. If you love God then you cannot love capitalism - it goes against God's ways. And visa-versa.

just b/c a person is a CEO of a company and makes a million a yr or more does NOT in and of itself make him evil. He may have inherited his wealth.. family business and all.

It is the amoral liberals who are attempting to DESTROY this country. they hate the boundaries of ... well, anything, but specificially the boundaries of the US Constitution (separation of powers, etc), and the REALLY hate the boundaries put forth by God himself



:box::hammer:

 

[republicanchick]

The real problem is that in a capitalist system, all the money and power ends up under the control of the capital investors, so they are making all the decisions for society. And those decision are based only on improving their own well-being, not of securing or improving the well-being of the society as a whole.

that is so bogus. It is Republicans who are members of Christian churches, who care about justice and the Constitution, and the rights of all humans, including those without a vote, the unborn.

you are guilty of violating that Scripture that says

Woe unto those who call evil Good and good Evil


+

 

[republicanchick]

1 Timothy 6:5-11

5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

.

i have read the Bible so spare me the preaching.

nowhere have i said that it is right to idolize money. Who would know better than someone like me how IMMORAL our system can be, where 4 million is paid to a nicklehead like Gruber who looks down on the American people (and didn't even give us a working system for Obamacare, so he should have been paid maybe 4 cents)... a system that throws millions of the taxpayer's $$ away on stupid things like bridges to nowhere (etc... etc... etc), a system where the gov gets to spend money it doesn't have but little people would destroy their lives and their families if they used money like that

don't accuse ME of accepting unchecked greed and waste and materialism. That is NOT what i am talking about



+

 

[republicanchick]

That was an interesting little rant there Quincy.

The truth of the matter is, if liberals like Bill Gates and other CEO's (Gates is the former CEO of MSFT) cared about the free enterprise system of government and really cared about the people whom they employ, they wouldn't be getting tax breaks from the US government for operating in slave labor countries like communist China.

yes

so once again we see that it is the liberals and not the "greedy capitalists" who are destroying our country.

Greed, even evil, selfish greed, does not do half the damage sexual immorality and liberal (Redundancy alert) lawlessness do



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